Boogity boogity boogity, lets go racing!!!!

**mateo8** · 12-12-2021, 12:01 AM

It all comes down to this, Max on softs, Lewis on mediums, who will get the better start, who will triumph???? This has got to be the best season in F1 ever with all the drama (albeit a little much at times) and two titans going at it in pretty much equal cars. Tomorrow is for all the marbles, who will win???

**mateo8** · 12-12-2021, 09:07 AM

Wow... Didn't know Stevie Wonder was employed as a steward this race

**mateo8** · 12-12-2021, 09:48 AM

Well.... lets hear your thoughts

**AJLM34A** · 12-12-2021, 09:58 AM

I do not follow any driver over another driver or constructor over another constructor, I follow the sport of Formula One.

Even if Hamilton had been forced to let Max by at the beginning, Hamilton was faster during the race.

The flip flop of un-lapping cars made this championship gifted.

Max Verstappen 2021 World Champion*

**ELVA164** · 12-12-2021, 10:26 AM

That's a lot to unpack in the last few laps there. It's an interesting mirror to Hamilton's first championship, though.

**Yonkers320is** · 12-12-2021, 10:40 AM

Well how many times have Mercedes being the beneficiary of questionable calls during the years...
Congrats to Max, he was the fastest during the year.

And Karma is a btch

Sent from my motorola one 5G UW using Tapatalk

**ELVA164** · 12-12-2021, 10:44 AM

Originally Posted by Yonkers320is

Well how many times have Mercedes being the beneficiary of questionable calls during the years...
Congrats to Max, he was the fastest during the year.

And Karma is a btch

Sent from my motorola one 5G UW using Tapatalk

Yeah, that's true as well I'm sure. Tallying it up for and against a certain team isn't how one should make a decision about a particular race though

**mateo8** · 12-12-2021, 11:16 AM

At the end of the day I am a Vettel fan through and through, so I have no clear dog in this fight (some may accuse me of Red Bull bias, but when Seb was dominant, he was truly spectacular to watch and the bowing to the car, acknowledging the car really helped, him was the icing on the cake. Also everything he has done since leaving Red Bull is fantastic. Love to see him and Mick interacting like how Seb and Michael interacted in terms of a mentorship role/fellow compatriot). But here is what I took home from this crazy weekend...

Lewis impeding MazaSpin in FP3, should have been a penalty (he was literally warned a week ago about how dangerous that was, and literally impeded the same person). Mistake: Hamilton

Max locking up in FP2 on a lap he did not need to be on. Forcing him to start on the softs. Mistake: Max

First incident between Max and Lewis was a clear "gained lasting advantage" case, but nothing was done about it (if Max went wide there would be no case for a penalty, but since he made the corner and was ahead at the apex it should have been reviewed.). Mistake: FiA

Not pitting during either of the VSC or SC periods to give Lewis new tires: Mistake: Mercedes

Calling Masi during the VSC asking not to put a SC out: Mistake: Mercedes

Latifi crashing: Mistake: Latifi

Allowing for lapped cars to overtake under safety car (the rule says "lapped cars may overtake", it does not say how many or how long you have to wait for them to overtake). Since there is discrepancy in the rules... Mistake: FiA

And the final mistakes tally is....

Merc/Hamilton: 3
Max: 1
Latifi: 1

Things I learned about today: The clear British bias in the reporting faded away today during the race, there was a lot of negative comments from the commentators (who are former F1 drivers, mind you) who thought Lewis should have given the place back to Max. This was refreshing to see/hear

I was actually hoping (since this course doesn't really provide any drama) if Max qualified 1st, they would take a new power unit, do the grid drop, and see how the race played out (I think it would've been like Lewis in Brazil, where he would breeze by everyone). But at the end the day Mercedes and Lewis lost this race

**AJLM34A** · 12-12-2021, 01:41 PM

Originally Posted by mateo8

Allowing for lapped cars to overtake under safety car (the rule says "lapped cars may overtake", it does not say how many or how long you have to wait for them to overtake). Since there is discrepancy in the rules... Mistake: FiA

The below sentence is what will allow MB to have a legit protest over how the safety car was handled in this race. If any of the past races over the 2021 season "all" lapped cars un-lapped themselves under a safety car, then why not todays race?

I really did not want to see the last race of the season, a champion deciding race to end under a safety car, but the wreck needing a safety car to clear unfolded as it did, so it should not have been manipulated.

"The unique element to this situation was the fact that only the lapped cars between Hamilton and Verstappen could overtake the Safety Car, not all of them.
And as per Article 48.12 of the sporting regulations, “any cars that have been lapped by the leader will be required to pass the cars on the lead lap and the Safety Car”.
Mercedes, therefore, may well have a legitimate gripe and a protest is likely to be lodged."

**Haifisch M3** · 12-12-2021, 02:44 PM

Originally Posted by mateo8

Wow... Didn't know Stevie Wonder was employed as a steward this race

reminded me of a soccer game ( before review was introduced)
ref gets fooled by a dive and calls penalty...1:0
at the end of the game ....he calls a fake penalty for the other team ...

**ELVA164** · 12-12-2021, 07:22 PM

Originally Posted by mateo8

At the end of the day I am a Vettel fan through and through, so I have no clear dog in this fight (some may accuse me of Red Bull bias, but when Seb was dominant, he was truly spectacular to watch and the bowing to the car, acknowledging the car really helped, him was the icing on the cake. Also everything he has done since leaving Red Bull is fantastic. Love to see him and Mick interacting like how Seb and Michael interacted in terms of a mentorship role/fellow compatriot). But here is what I took home from this crazy weekend...

Lewis impeding MazaSpin in FP3, should have been a penalty (he was literally warned a week ago about how dangerous that was, and literally impeded the same person). Mistake: Hamilton

Max locking up in FP2 on a lap he did not need to be on. Forcing him to start on the softs. Mistake: Max

First incident between Max and Lewis was a clear "gained lasting advantage" case, but nothing was done about it (if Max went wide there would be no case for a penalty, but since he made the corner and was ahead at the apex it should have been reviewed.). Mistake: FiA

Not pitting during either of the VSC or SC periods to give Lewis new tires: Mistake: Mercedes

Calling Masi during the VSC asking not to put a SC out: Mistake: Mercedes

Latifi crashing: Mistake: Latifi

Allowing for lapped cars to overtake under safety car (the rule says "lapped cars may overtake", it does not say how many or how long you have to wait for them to overtake). Since there is discrepancy in the rules... Mistake: FiA

And the final mistakes tally is....

Merc/Hamilton: 3
Max: 1
Latifi: 1

Things I learned about today: The clear British bias in the reporting faded away today during the race, there was a lot of negative comments from the commentators (who are former F1 drivers, mind you) who thought Lewis should have given the place back to Max. This was refreshing to see/hear

I was actually hoping (since this course doesn't really provide any drama) if Max qualified 1st, they would take a new power unit, do the grid drop, and see how the race played out (I think it would've been like Lewis in Brazil, where he would breeze by everyone). But at the end the day Mercedes and Lewis lost this race

That's pretty accurate, although I really don't think Lewis takes any blame for today's loss. He did everything he had to, and yes he should have gotten back behind Max at the start but he was so clearly faster it wouldn't have mattered for more than a lap or two anyway.

**workhurts** · 12-12-2021, 08:01 PM

Seems to boil down to Masi being able to do whatever he wants as it relates to safety cars and race starts/restarts plus all the teams indicating previously that they have a strong preference for not ending a race under a safety car if at all possible.

I can see both sides on this one. I don’t see them changing the current outcome but hope they tweak the rules a little to make sure the officiating mess this season has been isn’t repeated.

**Haifisch M3** · 12-12-2021, 08:47 PM

What's really hard to understand is how Hamilton left the inside open (in the last lap) when Max took him that way in the second lap. Very poor defensive driving on Hamilton's part...off course defensive driving is not something he normally has need to practice

**roarf** · 12-12-2021, 09:32 PM

Originally Posted by mateo8

Latifi crashing: Mistake: Latifi

**mateo8** · 12-12-2021, 09:58 PM

Everyone from all sides will be arguing about the results of the race. The thing we have to remember is.... HOW AWESOME WAS THIS SEASON???? I mean there were plenty of things that should have went one way or another, but when was the last time you were that invested in a championship? The last I can remember was when Vettel was dominating and was just destroying everything and everyone (got a little disinterested/couldn't watch the beginning of Merc dominance), the only other time I can think of is in 2016. I hope next year there are 2-5 teams with a driver who can win the championship at the end of the year with the new regulations

**ELVA164** · 12-12-2021, 11:03 PM

Originally Posted by Haifisch M3

What's really hard to understand is how Hamilton left the inside open (in the last lap) when Max took him that way in the second lap. Very poor defensive driving on Hamilton's part...off course defensive driving is not something he normally has need to practice

My guess is he was hoping to set up a run down the long straight, which would be his best chance to stay ahead. If he got passed after the long straight, the second straight wouldn't be as good a chance to get by (as we saw).

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by mateo8

Everyone from all sides will be arguing about the results of the race. The thing we have to remember is.... HOW AWESOME WAS THIS SEASON???? I mean there were plenty of things that should have went one way or another, but when was the last time you were that invested in a championship? The last I can remember was when Vettel was dominating and was just destroying everything and everyone (got a little disinterested/couldn't watch the beginning of Merc dominance), the only other time I can think of is in 2016. I hope next year there are 2-5 teams with a driver who can win the championship at the end of the year with the new regulations

Very fun to watch, agreed. Even the midfield had a bunch of good racing, some surprise results, lots of good stuff.

**Haifisch M3** · 12-13-2021, 12:06 PM

Originally Posted by ELVA164

My guess is he was hoping to set up a run down the long straight, which would be his best chance to stay ahead. If he got passed after the long straight, the second straight wouldn't be as good a chance to get by (as we saw).

that makes sense generally but in this case the merc was a lot faster than rb on the straights so all he needed to defend was the transitions... and at that he failed

**workhurts** · 12-13-2021, 12:37 PM

Originally Posted by Haifisch M3

that makes sense generally but in this case the merc was a lot faster than rb on the straights so all he needed to defend was the transitions... and at that he failed

Pretty sure RB ran a smaller rear wing for this race and actually had higher speeds down the straight(s).

**Haifisch M3** · 12-13-2021, 04:35 PM

Originally Posted by workhurts

Pretty sure RB ran a smaller rear wing for this race and actually had higher speeds down the straight(s).

not what i saw during this race
the merc speed advantage was huge

**workhurts** · 12-13-2021, 08:33 PM

Originally Posted by Haifisch M3

not what i saw during this race
the merc speed advantage was huge

**Haifisch M3** · 12-13-2021, 09:13 PM

https://f1bythenumbers.com/2021-abu-dhabi-gp-race-pace/

so what accounts for Ham running away from Max since lap 1 ...until tire change late in the race ?
he seems to have average cluster bunched lower/faster than Max

**workhurts** · 12-13-2021, 09:23 PM

Originally Posted by Haifisch M3

https://f1bythenumbers.com/2021-abu-dhabi-gp-race-pace/

so what accounts for Ham running away from Max since lap 1 ...until tire change late in the race ?
he seems to have average cluster bunched lower/faster than Max

Guessing better through the turns. Remember a few races ago when Horner was complaining about how Mercedes basically ran their Monaco wing with heavy downforce and still were faster in the straights (but that was with a new engine).

This time Mercedes probably figured they could lose a little in top end as long as they came out of the last corner with enough grip to protect the position (plus whatever else they gain elsewhere).

These are top speed numbers so perhaps the averages tell a different story once the tires degrade.

**Haifisch M3** · 12-14-2021, 12:18 PM

Originally Posted by workhurts

Guessing better through the turns. Remember a few races ago when Horner was complaining about how Mercedes basically ran their Monaco wing with heavy downforce and still were faster in the straights (but that was with a new engine).

This time Mercedes probably figured they could lose a little in top end as long as they came out of the last corner with enough grip to protect the position (plus whatever else they gain elsewhere).

These are top speed numbers so perhaps the averages tell a different story once the tires degrade.

here is another interesting chart comparing ver and ham quali speed in micro-sectors

https://f1bythenumbers.com/2021-abu-...ight-for-pole/

**workhurts** · 12-14-2021, 09:44 PM

That’s a cool plot. It does look like Hamilton could accelerate out of every turn faster.

**ELVA164** · 12-14-2021, 10:03 PM

This is the explanation:

The RB makes significantly more rear downforce at the expense of top speed. This also tends to overheat the rear tires. To try and close the gap to Mercedes in top speed and reduce tire temps, RB trimmed the rear wing down. The car was fast over a single lap but couldn't maintain pace without melting the tires. That's why Verstappen couldn't keep up even when the compound was to his advantage in the middle of the race.