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Thread: 1999 E39 no speedo, abs and triangle light

  1. #1
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    1999 E39 no speedo, abs and triangle light

    I'm about to acquire a 1999 e39 with the sports package. During the test drive I noted no speedometer (tach was working), abs light and circled triangle. My first thought was bad abs sensor.

    Looking for a good way to diagnose. I think I watched a few videos a while back on how you can test a abs sensor with a multimeter.

    Is there a specific tire that provides info for speedo? My thoughts are to start in the rear. Considering jacking and removing tires all takes time and the sensors are not cheap I'd like to try and zero in on this problem as best as I can. I was also advised that if it's not the sensors it could be the abs module that I can get rebuilt. Either way it's one of the first things I have to tackle when I get possession of this car.

    Thanks,

    Roveer

  2. #2
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    Common issue with that car's Bosch 5.7 abs. It deserves proper diagnosis but the writing on the wall says that the module is likely dead. Many offer re-man service with varying results.
    I used Module Master a decade ago and my module is still working just fine.

    If you can leave two black stripes from the exit of one corner to the braking zone of the next, you have enough horsepower. - Mark Donohue

  3. #3
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    Get out your test tool

    suggestion
    FOXWELL NT510 Elite Full Systems Scanner

    https://www.amazon.com/FOXWELL-Autom...38391267&psc=1

    You will need the ROUND pin connector for your EARLY OBDll system as the connector is under the hood on the RIGHT shock tower. BMW fought the OBDll Federal mandate for years so the early cars have two completely separate connectors one under the dash OBDll Federal P codes only and the round pin connector under the hood for the BMW specific codes and activation access.

    The questions you need to diagnose/test and confirm are the following:
    Does the computer see the signals from all the speed sensors? Y/N

    If no, check the wiring to each one and especially the connection to the body harness. Remove each sensor (just a 4mm sq drive) twist & pull to remove. Clean the sensor and clean out the hole to the hubs and spray down with brake clean the hub area to remove the 20+ years of road crud. These things put out a square wave that can be tested on an oscilloscope. There are other static tests but they do NOT give you any confidence of good/bad as weakness and intermittent are usually the culprits. Most DIY when they discover the wiring jacketing flaking off, just replace all four. They plug in at the back of each hub area and the quick connect in hidden in the little rectangle box in the inner fender wheelwell. DONT BREAK the box or the connectors!!!

    Vendor Sources: Rockauto.com
    Brands: VDO, Hella, NTK (NGK), Bremi

    Are there any codes present in the systems?
    Are you able to clear and retest the system?
    Does the ABS module cycle when commanded?

    As Rossi mentioned, the ABS block and module are a HIGH failure item in e39's due to the location just above the exhaust systems and the technology they were made from in the late 90's. There are a few "rebuilders" who can bench test and repair the circuit boards that will get your module back into the functional world.
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  4. #4
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    Who ever told you it wasn’t the sensors, strike him off the list of who to get info from.
    Check the left rear wheel speed sensor.
    Set the controls for the heart of the sun

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by BimmrMeUpSnotty View Post
    Who ever told you it wasn’t the sensors, strike him off the list of who to get info from.
    Check the left rear wheel speed sensor.
    A good place to start. Exactly what I was looking for. Probably not a bad idea for me to get a look behind each tire so I know how things will be going forward. I owned the car from 1998 to 2011 then sold it and have now bought it back. Funny how these things work.

    Roveer

    - - - Updated - - -

    What i can report from the day I test drove the car. It didn't have a check engine light. I scanned it with my generic OBDII scanner and no codes found. I'm probably going to "get" the car this weekend and then I can start looking at all these systems.

    Is there a defacto BMW obd dongle/software? I saw BMW Scanner 1.4 and K+DCAN. I have one for my ford and I use forscan. Guessing there is a similar for BMW?
    Last edited by roveer; 12-03-2021 at 03:49 PM.

  6. #6
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    Yep,
    it is the speed sensor at the left rear wheel. Clean it, test it or replace it with an oem speed sensor.
    And no it is NOT the ABS,,

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by roveer View Post
    A good place to start. Exactly what I was looking for. Probably not a bad idea for me to get a look behind each tire so I know how things will be going forward. I owned the car from 1998 to 2011 then sold it and have now bought it back. Funny how these things work.

    Roveer

    - - - Updated - - -

    What i can report from the day I test drove the car. It didn't have a check engine light. I scanned it with my generic OBDII scanner and no codes found. I'm probably going to "get" the car this weekend and then I can start looking at all these systems.

    Is there a defacto BMW obd dongle/software? I saw BMW Scanner 1.4 and K+DCAN. I have one for my ford and I use forscan. Guessing there is a similar for BMW?
    I had to buy a K+DCAN cable for INPA and a different cable for BMW Scanner 1.4. I don't think the cables are interchangeable. Those are the two de facto programs for these cars.
    Current stable:
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chedley View Post
    Yep,
    it is the speed sensor at the left rear wheel. Clean it, test it or replace it with an oem speed sensor.
    And no it is NOT the ABS,,
    A little confused. You saying speed sensor is NOT abs sensor? Is this sensor (speed) not on the rear wheel hub? Is it on the driveshaft or some other place? I always refer to the sensors mounted on the wheel hubs as ABS Sensors. I'm missing something here.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by E39 Newbie View Post
    I had to buy a K+DCAN cable for INPA and a different cable for BMW Scanner 1.4. I don't think the cables are interchangeable. Those are the two de facto programs for these cars.
    Did see a video where they showed both types of dongles and yes, they did mention that there was different software for each. Is it normal to own both or does one do most/all of the necessary functions. No sense in buying things I don't need.

  9. #9
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    AFAIK, the '97-'98 ABS module is under the passenger footwell; at least, it is on my car, so it is not subject to exhaust heat.


    Ed in San Jose '97 540i 6 speed aspensilber over aubergine leather. Build date 3/97. Golden Gate Chapter BMW CCA Nr 62319.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by roveer View Post
    Did see a video where they showed both types of dongles and yes, they did mention that there was different software for each. Is it normal to own both or does one do most/all of the necessary functions. No sense in buying things I don't need.
    I have both. They each have their place and there is quite a bit of overlap. I find PASoft more user friendly.

    Except for the price of the cables, both are free downloads. Google Mike's BMW Tools for INPA and ancillary programs. I think I went to https://bmwpasoft.com/products/bmw-pasoft-software and bought the dongle, although they're available on Amazon and elsewhere. The software was included. I think both titles are also available on MEGA.
    Current stable:
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  11. #11
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    Yes, the speed sensor is on the left side (driver side) rear wheel hub. Some call it ABS sensor. But do not confuse it with the ABS module. I am saying that your problem is the speed sensor, and not the ABS module...!!

    I recommend the K+DCAN cable for INPA, free downloadable software. Google "Mike's BMW Tools for INPA".

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chedley View Post
    Yes, the speed sensor is on the left side (driver side) rear wheel hub. Some call it ABS sensor. But do not confuse it with the ABS module. I am saying that your problem is the speed sensor, and not the ABS module...!!

    I recommend the K+DCAN cable for INPA, free downloadable software. Google "Mike's BMW Tools for INPA".
    That's exactly as I was expecting. I'll go for the sensor first and then the module. Hopefully it will be the sensor and I'll get off with a 50 dollar fix.

    Do either of these software/dongle combos program door unlock buttons? I remember when I sold the car the key would not unlock the car. Something about the battery (either car of key) being dead and then losing it's programming. I noticed when i test drove the car that the key would not unlock the car. Might just be a battery, but if the programming issue arises again I don't want to have to go to the dealer to reprogram.

    Roveer

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by roveer View Post
    That's exactly as I was expecting. I'll go for the sensor first and then the module. Hopefully it will be the sensor and I'll get off with a 50 dollar fix.

    Do either of these software/dongle combos program door unlock buttons? I remember when I sold the car the key would not unlock the car. Something about the battery (either car of key) being dead and then losing it's programming. I noticed when i test drove the car that the key would not unlock the car. Might just be a battery, but if the programming issue arises again I don't want to have to go to the dealer to reprogram.

    Roveer
    At 23+ years old, your E39 most likely needs to have all 4 wheel speed sensors replaced due to old age making the plastic housings and wire coatings brittle and probably broken, causing either shorts or breaks in the circuits. I had this same issue with the speedo - the LR sensor was broken, and I replace all 4 at the same time as repair/preventive measure. I don't believe the '98 year ABS modules are problematic. Most ABS issues are posted for '99+ years.

    The key issue may just be that the FOB battery died and the key needs to be re-synced, which you can do yourself. Search the forum here for the procedure - QSilver has posted the key sync procedure many times here. So, no need to go to the dealer for re-sync.

    It's nice that you got your old E39 back. I've had mine for over 20 years, have maintained and repaired only with DIY, have never gone to the dealer, and can't bring myself to part with it because it still runs like new and is a joy to drive. Good luck with your re-aquired toy!
    Ed CT
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ed CT View Post
    I don't believe the '98 year ABS modules are problematic. Most ABS issues are posted for '99+ years.
    Correct Thread title says '99, sig states '98 so who knows which one but pre '99 aren't problematic.

    If you can leave two black stripes from the exit of one corner to the braking zone of the next, you have enough horsepower. - Mark Donohue

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by ross1 View Post
    Correct Thread title says '99, sig states '98 so who knows which one but pre '99 aren't problematic.
    Ha! Didn't even notice that. I was only looking at the sig year. OP should to clear up this discrep! Esp. since '99 is first TU year.


    EDIT: A second look at OP's other "Should I buy back my "98" thread is where the '98 originated. OP - are you buying another E39?? LOL
    Last edited by Ed CT; 12-04-2021 at 08:08 PM. Reason: add'l info
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  16. #16
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    Whats the big deal? I have three, if a good deal on another one manifested itself, I’d jump on it.
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  17. #17
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    Actually when I made the original post. I couldn't remember what year the car was. After looking at VIN I determined it was a 99

    As a test can I swap rear ABS sensors to see if it resurrects speedo? Hate to start buying 80 dollar parts that I can't return.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by roveer View Post
    Actually when I made the original post. I couldn't remember what year the car was. After looking at VIN I determined it was a 99

    As a test can I swap rear ABS sensors to see if it resurrects speedo? Hate to start buying 80 dollar parts that I can't return.
    I've had mixed results with the cheapies. These; https://www.ebay.com/itm/263904867997 being the worst*, two of two were DOA. I've bought good ones for as little as $10. These ain't rocket science.
    *Seller has since "revised" his listing which conveniently eliminated my feedback.
    Last edited by ross1; 12-05-2021 at 01:17 PM.

    If you can leave two black stripes from the exit of one corner to the braking zone of the next, you have enough horsepower. - Mark Donohue

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by ross1 View Post
    I've had mixed results with the cheapies. These; https://www.ebay.com/itm/263904867997 being the worst*, two of two were DOA. I've bought good ones for as little as $10. These ain't rocket science.
    *Seller has since "revised" his listing which conveniently eliminated my feedback.
    80 bucks is when I go to auto parts. Seeing that weekend is over I will just order on rockauto. But I'd still like to know if swapping rears might ressurrect speedo? Want to determine if it's sensor or module. I pulled left rear, cleaned and tried, but no joy. Next is to pull it completly and try and test with multi-meter.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by roveer View Post
    80 bucks is when I go to auto parts. Seeing that weekend is over I will just order on rockauto. But I'd still like to know if swapping rears might ressurrect speedo? Want to determine if it's sensor or module. I pulled left rear, cleaned and tried, but no joy. Next is to pull it completly and try and test with multi-meter.
    You can check from the module connector. The RR is pins 30 & 31, LR is 13 & 29 an ohm meter should indicate low impedance when connected one way and an open circuit when the leads reversed.
    Given that the wiring(connectors) are sometimes the problem this method includes that variable.
    According to my notes #13 is blue/wht, 29 is wht, 30 is blue/grn and 31 is green
    Hope this helps.
    Last edited by ross1; 12-05-2021 at 02:25 PM.

    If you can leave two black stripes from the exit of one corner to the braking zone of the next, you have enough horsepower. - Mark Donohue

  21. #21
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    I pulled both rear ABS sensors and tried to test them. The pins are very deep in the connectors but I think I made connections. Neither one gave am ohms reading. I was able to get a single new sensor and put it on the back left (driver side). Still no speedo. I'm going to test the connections from the connectors to the module next.

    Question: Does it need both rears in order for the speedo to work or would it / should it work with just the left rear? This is a 99 so does that mean that it's more likely to be the module? 185 bucks ebay rebuilt.

    Roveer

  22. #22
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    The left rear speed sensor is the one that gives the speedo its sense.
    Set the controls for the heart of the sun

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by BimmrMeUpSnotty View Post
    Whats the big deal? I have three, if a good deal on another one manifested itself, I’d jump on it.
    Yes, the more E39's on the road, the better. These cars are too good to go to the scrapyard.
    Ed CT
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by roveer View Post
    I pulled both rear ABS sensors and tried to test them. The pins are very deep in the connectors but I think I made connections. Neither one gave am ohms reading. I was able to get a single new sensor and put it on the back left (driver side). Still no speedo. I'm going to test the connections from the connectors to the module next.

    Question: Does it need both rears in order for the speedo to work or would it / should it work with just the left rear? This is a 99 so does that mean that it's more likely to be the module? 185 bucks ebay rebuilt.

    Roveer
    The'99s and up have the more suspect ABS modules; however, the wheel sensors at this age are most likely in need of replacement. Swapping them side-to-side is likely to damage them during handling. If you got a single new sensor and it doesn't work, you may want to check that it is actually good, as Ross says, some fail right out of the box.
    Ed CT
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  25. #25
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    a reader like the foxwell 510 will tell you which corner has the error. Disturbing sensors that have not moved in 20 years is a losing game. you will spending more money on new sensors than the tool cost.

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