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Thread: E36 BTCC Setups

  1. #1
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    E36 BTCC Setups

    Curious why I don't see anyone ever running the super low setup run on E36's back in the 90's BTCC. Just the huge increase in money/tuning involved in changing geometry vs minimal rewards?
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  2. #2
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    Fun question!
    Maybe an aero thing? Today's NASA GT2 class for example, run big low front splitters reducing the advantage for the under-chassis to be an inch off the road.
    Did any of the E36 BTCC classes allow aero?

  3. #3
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    Interesting!

    I did some research and the aero rules were fairly strict until the later days.

    Here you can see how low the cars were. And also no real aero.

    I also read that, at least initially, the cars were retrofitted with e30 like rear suspension. The z-link design that came with the E36 flexed too much and so they found it unpredictable. Not sure if they eventually solved this or not.

    Some pics
    http://www.supertouringregister.com/register/model/08/


    5206.jpg

    3712.jpg
    Last edited by xxxxxxx; 11-30-2021 at 11:29 AM.
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    It would be fun reading to learn more about the setup of these cars, which I'm sure at some point evolved.

    I believe initially they did use S14 motors as the S42 hadn't been developed yet. In terms of E30 rear suspension that may have been more about regulation on early racing when E36 first came into the scene and then later changed to a different setup.

    Here's a Cecotto E36, where you can see the rear suspension is a true 'coilover'. I remember seeing a technical breakdown of late evolution STW (S42 powered) car where it showed the front/rear swaybar being an in-cockpit adjustable blade type, wish I could find that one again as it was really well documented and photographed.



    Here's a video of Seth Thomas taking an E36 touring car with E30 rear suspension and S14 around Road Atlanta


    http://blog.axisofoversteer.com/2011...ve-had-v8.html



    One thing is certain, almost everything was changed on the suspension to run at those ride heights and stuff 19" wheels under the 'factory' massaged body work. I'm sure you could still buy those Grp. A struts, but they'd cost a few grand on their own, and then you have to source or customize everything else.

    Also, here's some shots of what I presume is an earlier version setup.
    https://bimmersport.co.nz/topic/30640-e36-supertourer/

    Last edited by propcar; 11-30-2021 at 01:47 PM.
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    I am pretty sure that E36 that was the BMWCCA race car was an S42 car. I think it was a Dutch Touring car (Brian Corrigan I think was the original guy who brought it over).
    Its been a long time since I saw it but i'd be about 85% that it was an S42. It was a really nice car. He didnt drive it very much at all, but I remember crawling all over / under and around it when he did.
    That was around the same time that there were three E30M3 Gruppe A cars running in BMWCCA CR and that one E36 touring car. I want to say late 90s. Was fun times when those all came over.
    Last edited by jimmypet; 11-30-2021 at 08:31 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimmypet View Post
    I am pretty sure that E36 that was the BMWCCA race car was an S42 car. I think it was a Dutch Touring car (Brian Corrigan I think was the original guy who brought it over).
    Its been a long time since I saw it but i'd be about 85% that it was an S42. It was a really nice car. He didnt drive it very much at all, but I remember crawling all over / under and around it when he did.
    That was around the same time that there were three E30M3 Gruppe A cars running in BMWCCA CR and that one E36 touring car. I want to say late 90s. Was fun times when those all came over.
    S14 powered, at least 10 years ago.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seth Thomas
    This past weekend I had the chance to drive an old touring car from Europe. I am not 100% sure on the specific series the car ran in while in Europe but I can tell you this thing was a blast to drive. It was an early 90s E36 BMW 2-door chassis with a 2.5L Gruppe A S14 stuffed under the hood with individual throttle bodies working with a slide type throttle linkage. Along with the wild motor it had a sequential 6-speed transmission with gears so close it kept the car in a 1500 RPM revband the whole time. Coming out of turn 7 at Road Atlanta I was in 5th gear before the bridge and 6th shortly after. Shifting this quick was similar to driving a big rig.
    Engine pics here
    https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...7#post22727037
    Last edited by propcar; 11-30-2021 at 09:08 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by xxxxxxx View Post
    Curious why I don't see anyone ever running the super low setup run on E36's back in the 90's BTCC. Just the huge increase in money/tuning involved in changing geometry vs minimal rewards?
    If you made your own drop spindles like works teams did, you too would run as low as you could without scrubbing the tarmac clean. Geometry is quite important, to the extent that us amateurs will often raise a lowered car and sacrifice CG and aero to get better geometry.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by propcar View Post
    S14 powered, at least 10 years ago.



    Engine pics here
    https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...7#post22727037
    Man I totally remembered that car as an S42 car, but pictures don't lie. I wonder if i was thinking of a different E36 touring car.
    That looks like a hoot to drive. The real race 6 speed trans transforms a race S14.
    jimmy p.


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  9. #9
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    Not sure who's this is, but he was at RA Aug of 2020 with an E36 super tourer.

    T

    IMG_4434.jpgIMG_4434.jpg

  10. #10
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    looks like the exact same car, see the corner of the sticker on the radiator cover for Moore's motorsport... cool to see that thing is still out there running!
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  11. #11
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    I believe there is a small mistake early in this thread. I don't think the E36 STC cars ever ran rear E30 set ups. Front yes, the parts are virtually identical to the E30 DTM hardware, and yes, its likely they used motorsport light case diffs that originated on E30's. The rear suspension was still trailing arm E36 though, unless you've a photo to prove otherwise. They did use completely different subframes for the diff usually with roll center correction options for the arms and such. These subframes along with use of trunk fuel cells seems to have accommodated some early ones having rear swaybars adjustable mounted under the car. McLaren did some of the rear swaybar work on some for in the trunk adjustable ones, but not all have that sophisticated set up.

  12. #12
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    Its a lot of work to keep the suspension geometry correct when you lower it as far as they did. You can still buy the special bolts and brackets that relocate the tie rod up as to how it attaches to the steering rack from BMW Msport today - 2 bolts, 2 brackets, billet steel, motorsport parts, $600. All the pickup points need to be relocated in the front and the rear, and the semi trailing arm sweep angle needs to be reduced as well.
    Last edited by JS154; 02-01-2022 at 05:12 PM.
    2010 BMW Club Racing E30 M3 Touring Car Champion, 2011 and 2013 SCCA National Championship Runoffs 3rd Place, STU, 2011 SCCA Jim Fitzgerald Rookie of the Year, 2012 SCCA Northeast Division STU Champion, 2015 SCCA Runoffs Pole Position Daytona/STU

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by JS154 View Post
    Its a lot of work to keep the suspension geometry correct when you lower it as far as they did. You can still buy the special bolts and brackets that relocate the tie rod up as to how it attaches to the steering rack from BMW Msport today - 2 bolts, 2 brackets, billet steel, motorsport parts, $600. All the pickup points need to be relocated in the front and the rear, and the semi trailing arm sweep angle needs to be reduced as well.
    Do you have a link to the bolts and brackets you're referring to? I looked around but couldn't seem to find them

  14. #14
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    https://www.bmwmdev.com/shop/millway...amp-e36-inc-m3
    https://www.bmwmdev.com/shop/millway...rms-e30-inc-m3

    knock offs but legit.


    http://e30sport.net/tech_articles/misc-tech/index.htm

    read everything here if you haven't. has good pics of the underside of e30 m3 dtm cars. ive never found equivilant info on the e36. all i have is theise pics.

    1385483-1-large.jpg
    1385483-7-large.jpg

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by scoobiedoo2029 View Post
    Yo that's a good looking rear suspension design, almost identical in concept to EG/EK-chassis Civics. One has to wonder why BMW didn't just ship the factory E36 with this setup, the pickup points are all there...

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