E39 Sedan Audio Upgrade

[SulemanOmer]

Hi all,
I have a 2002 E39 Sedan Non-DSP with Navigation.
I want to replace:

• Amplifier to an aftermarket one
• two front door speakers
• two speakers on the rear deck

And add:

• Two additional speakers on the rear deck
• A subwoofer

I would like to keep the factory head unit for the steering controls and other car features etc, but if aftermarket head unit will improve sound quality etc then I will consider replacing that as well.
Some questions that I have:

• Is stock wiring good enough to handle upgraded audio system considering its age etc?
• Can run 2 speakers off one wire? Connecting an additional speaker to the terminals of the existing ones each?

A drawn wiring layout would be really helpful but any advice/tip would be highly appreciated.
Many Thanks
Suleman

[seagreen323i]

Hi all,
I have a 2002 E39 Sedan Non-DSP with Navigation.
I want to replace:

• Amplifier to an aftermarket one
• two front door speakers
• two speakers on the rear deck

And add:

• Two additional speakers on the rear deck
• A subwoofer

I would like to keep the factory head unit for the steering controls and other car features etc, but if aftermarket head unit will improve sound quality etc then I will consider replacing that as well.
Some questions that I have:

• Is stock wiring good enough to handle upgraded audio system considering its age etc?
• Can run 2 speakers off one wire? Connecting an additional speaker to the terminals of the existing ones each?

A drawn wiring layout would be really helpful but any advice/tip would be highly appreciated.
Many Thanks
Suleman

To answer your questions yes and yes. Just check impedance running 2 speakers on the same circuit.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

[DennisCooper]

Hi SulemanOmer,

Welcome to the forum firstly!

Secondly, Dudley as in Birmingham area here in the UK?

Depending on what you'd like to achieve for the audio in your E39, you have a few routes you could take. Each route has it's own advantages and disadvantages, so you'll need to evaluate what you want with those aspects to shortlist your choice and then make a decision.

From your post, if you decide to keep the 'head unit' in the dash, then you can't replace the OEM amplifier, it must stay in place and working. This is because the oem audio setup you have is modular, the head unit isn't a head unit, it's 'just' a monitor. The amplifer, the GPS computer are all needed to be in place and working for you to have a functional audio system. Some owners go this route of course, so you can then 'add on' an aftermarket amplifier if you wish. For the front doors, you'd go for 2 way 5.25 inch component speakers mounted in much more solid baffles which replace the OEM plastic speaker pods. For the rear speakers, all you need is to replace the oem ones with 5.25 inch co-axial ones and you don't have to spend much here either £40-80. Spend as much of your budget on the front speakers. You can go 6.5's but be aware of the possible mounting depths issue and the cone surround hitting the back of the door card potential issue, one way around that is to choose from the few shallow depth 6.5 inch component speaker sets, these do come at a higher price level.

There's no reason to add to more speakers to the rear deck, but as you've mentioned it, what 'speakers' are you thinking to add? components? larger co-axials? mid bass drivers? If you can explain your current reasoning, that'd help to see what you are thinking and I and others can respond back an explain why it's not really worth persuing. A subwoofer can be added as well, your choice of 6,8,10,12,15 inch in either single driver or as a pair and a good solid enclosure that vents through into the cabin via the ski hatch.

An established, recognised car audio brand head unit will improve the sound quality significantly over keeping the OEM setup. It is possible to 'extract' as best as possible Audio signal from the OEM modules, but it's complicated and of course cost, increases substantially. The other option is a Chinese replacement head unit and 'Sound Quality' from those is significantly less than a premium brand head unit, and becomes more apparent if you then use good quality amplifiers and speakers. If 'SQ' is important to you, you'll drop the idea of using a chinese head unit rightaway.

Depending on what you'd like to achieve, you can re-use oem speaker cabling if you like, it's relatively easy to run new speaker cable though.
Run 2 speakers off one wire? theoretically yes, practically, depending which speaker / which application you mean.

It's not possible to provide a wiring layout as there's no 'audio system plan' that you're thinking about as yet.

If you provide more of what you are wishing to achieve, any particular genre's of music you prefer in the car, any practical considerations? your anticipated budget ? you'll get more responses and suggestions to evaluate and understand and then you can shortlist products and perhaps a good installer to fit everything properly and well for you - which I highly recommend, unless your DIY skills are up to speed!

Cheers, Dennis!

[edjack]

Dennis is The Man!

[ThaDoubleJ]

Smart of you to ask before starting, I didn't and wasted a pile of money and time putting in a touch screen. Turns out all of the processing is done in the trunk, not sure what the radio does, but the CD player has some brains in it. I swapped mine out for an X5 unit and with a simple $60 piece of tiny wire I now have an aux input and a stopwatch. I'll be switching to that doodad in the trunk for Bluetooth that ECS sells one of these days so I can get ride of the little wire hanging by my knee. Probably also go for the BavSound speaker upgrade as well, but I hear the rear deck speakers are no small job to get to.

[SulemanOmer]

Hi Dennis,
Thank you very much for your reply
I am glad to be a part of this group.


yes, I am based in Dudley near Birmingham.
I want a good quality sound system with decent/good bass.
I wanted to keep the original System/Monitor and thought I’d just upgrade the amp and the speakers and get good sound quality out of it because with this one I have steering controls etc if I can get steering controls with a modern head unit and that also will improve the sound quality then, in that case, I’m willing to get a modern head unit. Any suggestion on make/model or what screen size will suit. I don’t like square screens in the middle and plastic fascia covering the rest of the space.
I was thinking to replace the OEM speakers on the rear deck with 6x9”, there is a video of someone on YouTube installing 6x9’s on the rear deck in customer made baffles/mount, and my purpose of adding bigger speakers another set of speakers on the rear deck was to get more sound and bass from those speakers because my car hasn’t got ski hatch so adding a subwoofer is not an option for me unless I cut the ski hatch, but then ill do that if adding a subwoofer will make big difference to the sound.
I wanted to get one of those OEM-looking head units because they look OEM but if they lack in sound quality and performance then I won’t. Can use factory steering controls with an aftermarket head unit?
I was thinking to install 6.5” speakers in the front doors, either (4 x 6x9 Speakers on the deck) or (2 x 6.5” or 6x9” Speakers on the deck and a subwoofer in the boot), powered by an aftermarket amplifier and head unit depending on what you suggest is the right thing to do? I’m not into a specific genre but I think I listen to rock/pop music a bit more than the others, so good sound quality with bass?
Upgrading tweeters in the pillars will make much difference to the sound?
Please suggest the best audio system plan and I will follow.
Some stuff that I already have:
1 set of JL Audio 6.5” Speakers
2 sets of Focal 6.5” Speakers
1 set of Infinity Kappa 6x9 Speakers
1 set of Pioneer 6x9 Speakers
1 set of Focal 6x9” Speakers
1 x Pioneer 1000W Amp 6 channel
1 x SONY 1000W Amp 6 channel
Thanks

[DennisCooper]

Hi Suleman,

Thanks for the update there, I'm by Heathrow and this forum is 99% USA based, only a few Brit's and others from around the globe post ! however, there's a wealth of excellent contibutors and knowledge so keep this forum bookmarked!

I'd say ditch the idea of 6x9's on the back shelf, it'd be a lot of work to make them fit and to sound decent, and you'd have to cut metal and then spend more on sound deadening and strengthening the location/area which isn't efficient/effective use of your money.

To save me typing out, have a read of this setup overview I wrote about way back in 2010 - https://forum.bmw5.co.uk/topic/43926...t-saloonsedan/

You don't have to do the fancy aspects of alcantara/perspex/lighting/sound deadening the roof areas, just the fundamental of a good sub enclosure really.

The ski hatch if there makes it easy to 'vent' into the cabin. If it's not there, the thin metal area to cut out is non structural and doesn't affect anything in a negative way. This route is the most cost effective, efficient, practical way to get awesome musical, controlled, tight, punchy subbass into an E39 (saloon car in general)

Here's another writeup by another owner - https://forum.bmw5.co.uk/topic/64113...upgrade-final/

You could keep the OEM audio setup if you wish, but then there's more spend to keep it all functional and working, and then more spend to add on extra functionality like Bluetooth audio streaming/phone calls and digital TV if you so wish,longer term it'll be the most expensive route to take as you fix and repair the aging electronics.

The 'best' way forward is a new high quality and reliable double DIN head unit from the likes of Kenwood/Alpine/Sony/Pioneer and you don't have to put up with such a unit with empty plastic on each side, there's an OEM looking fascia/fitting kit available which gives a very close to OEM look in the dash

6.5s will fit into the doors, but you'll need to ensure they fit well and their mounting depths don't cause an issue and the speaker roll surround doesn't move to hit the back of the door card when playing, to help, you can get shallow depth component speakers but they do cost more. Rear deck only needs base level £40-75 co-axial speakers, just for some rear fill. So I'd say sell off your existing equipment and perhaps go for small footprint Class D amplifer(s) , 5.25" front components in MDF or birch ply baffles (6.5's once you do your homework) tweeters in the OEM location, 5.25inch rear co-axials and then your choice of either single or dual 8/10/12 inch subwoofer(s) in a good sealed enclosure that vents through the ski hatch.

This 'configuration' works fantastically well, so good in face that the same fundamentals has helped other E39 owners I know win at Sound Quality car audio competitions!

Cheers, Dennis!

[JimLev]

Suleman, welcome to the forum.
I have already done what you want to do, just different components.
I used a JL Audio XD400/4 amp which has an output for a powered sub. With a 6 ch amp you can directly power a sub.
Here is the wiring diagram for the Non-DSP amp that I made when I converted my system.
Looks like you already have some good speakers, hope you have the crossovers for them as you will need them.

Non DSP Amp and Speakers.jpg

Dscn7628.jpg

[SulemanOmer]

Hi Dennis,
I am back after a whole long year, been very busy with work and stuff. I hope you are well and everything is good your side. I didn’t get a chance to work my car’s audio setup this entire time but plan is now to work on it during my two weeks long Christmas Holidays “and its freezing here lol “.
I took your expert advice and sold all the stuff I bought for my car audio setup apart from just my 6.5” JL Audio speakers they’ll go on the back shelf, as you said they’d suit better than 6x9’s.

Layout I’m thinking about:
· After Market Head Unit (Pioneer SPH-DA230DAB)
· Front doors 6’5” Components (Looking at Focal K2)
· Parcel Shelf 6’5” Coaxial Speakers (JL Audio TR650-CXi)
· Class-D Amp and a sub in the boot.
· Will cut metal sheet for subwoofer.
Questions
· Is the original wiring still good for the setup I’m thinking about or I rewire?
· Font door components that I’m looking at have great reviews on the internet but they don’t look shallow depth, will they fit with adapters/baffles in the door? If this is not a good idea any suggestion on brand and model of shallow depth ones?
· I’ve heard its best to run speakers through an amp to take the best out of them, what would you suggest. One amp for subwoofer, one for speakers or I run speakers of the head unit?
· Do I need to upgrade the battery, my car needs new battery anyway so I can buy any that suits.
· Do you or anybody you know has got template/measurement on paper for door baffle, I have got wood and tools.
· The links you sent in your message don’t work.
Thank you very much for your advice and patience with my questions.

Suleman

- - - Updated - - -

Thank you very much for this useful info

Much Appreciated <3

[JimLev]

Yes, the existing speaker wiring is OK to use with your amp and new speakers.
Your Pioneer SPH-DA230DAB is 50w/ch which is 1/2 of the power my JL Audio has.

[kallekula]

That Pioneer looks nice but pretty big. Might need to modify/cut a bit to make that fit? Dennis might know, he’s the man when it comes to car audio. I installed a new system a while back. Got rid of all the original BMW DSP modules and even ran new speaker wires. Alpine iLX-W650 HU which is very shallow. 5.25” component system up front and 5.25” coax in the deck. Picked Infinity Primus for that. Also cut out a hole behind the armrest and put a 12” powered Rockford Fosgate sub in the trunk. The Infinitys are powered by a small yet powerful enough Rockford Fosgate 4 channel amp. Good luck with the install! It’s a bit of work and even worse if you decide to run new speaker wires. BUT, it’s fun and it is so worth it once you’re done!!!

[DennisCooper]

Hi,

Sporadic Internet access currently for me, plus not always at home.

Suleman Omer - thanks for reaching out, liek you, business has been insane busy - please drop me a PM, i'll answer asap, may be a few days or so though! I'll point you in the right/a good direction and in adddition to kallekula's post above and mine from a year ago !

Cheers, Dennis!

[sleuth255]

Thanks for the wiring info JimLev! Saved me some work for sure. I'm also looking at improving the stock audio system so that I can maintain a completely authentic interior. Not a fan of an aftermarket head unit for this reason.

[seagreen323i]

Depending how handy you are you could retrofit an raspberry pie in the stock head unit enclosure. I don't think anybody has done it yet but it's definitely possible.

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

[SulemanOmer]

Hi Dennis, i sent you a meesage but im not sure if its sent because its not showing anything in my sent folder.

Thanks

[DennisCooper]

Hi,

SulemanOmer - I will come back to you asap, I did get your message and also got sick and a bit overly tired over the xmas break and still running like crazy with an extremely busy month for us! I'll respond to your specifics in the PM very soon.

Sleuth255 - There are ways of improving the OEM audio by 'adding onto' it with various aftermarket products to give better functionality and audio performance. Depending on which OEM setup you have and how much better you wish to improve the OEM, will then influence what you'll need to buy/spend and it'll range potentially from a couple hundred dollars perhaps to several thousand and possibly a bit more again depending on what you want/choose/buy. Longer term, you'll have the added cost of ensuring the OEM setup stays working and that can be a significant cost too. Just something to keep in mind if you *must* keep the OEM audio.

seagreen323i - I'm sure I've seen a handful of OEM 16:9 monitors for the E39 that have been modified to run a new TFT screen with higher resolution and then have it connected to a raspberry pi which I seem to recall would sit outside the monitor chassis. There's been a good few E46 monitor chassis' modified liek this. Similarly, quite some time back an E39 owners gutted the OEM 16:9 monitor but kept some parts of the PCB's and then dismantled an Alpine flip out single DIN head unit and 'transplanted' its main PCB's into the OEM monitor chasses, custom connected the OEM buttons to a homebrew PCB that then connected to the Alpine PCB's to allow control using the OEM buttons on the front. I've got a monitor chassis here I had modified to keep the flip down/up panel and the backlighting and the rest all gutted and fitted in a small Kenwood Display that then connected to a central 'brain' unit via a single lead. So various home brew type modifications have been done on the monitor chassis in the past

Cheers, Dennis!

[sleuth255]

DennisCooper - Thanks for the reply! I currently have non-DSP audio, BM54 radio, 16:9 Navigation. Was thinking JimLev's method: aftermarket amp with speaker level inputs driven by BM54, speaker upgrades, sub placement, or perhaps some major rear deck work to accommodate modern speaker systems that use the trunk space as an infinite baffle. I also have a lot of space in the left trunk area now that I've added a BlueBus and pulled Bluetooth/CD changer modules. Not opposed to re-working the mounting bracket layout there to fit Bluebus, BM54, new power amp (the JL Audio XD400/4 seems like a great choice here as well), Navigation computer and existing TV module for backup cam. Or find another location for the power amp. Could be a fun project with cost a bit south of $1K.

[sleuth255]

Thanks to JimLev's diagram, a cool winter project is beginning to form in my head...

So it would appear that our non-DSP E39s are 4 channel systems with front channel door mounted tweeters, midrange and woofers along with rear channel tweeters/woofers split between doors and the rear deck. The front channel is therefore a three-way system and the rear channel is a two-way system. Wiring is separated out at the back of the car on connectors X605 and X606 which also have switched power and 4 channel line-in for the amp. In principal, I can replace the stock amp with a JL Audio XD400/6v2 and bridge the fifth/sixth output channels for subs. The required two-way and three-way crossovers can be easily built and installed next to the amp which itself would physically occupy the space formerly held by the stock amp. Easy peasy.

Now the fun part: I have Ted's BluBus system and have also installed the IDE and successfully compiled the software. BluBus is actually a combined hardware/software platform built on MPLAB. MPLAB itself is a freeware integrated development environment for the development of embedded applications on PIC and dsPIC microcontrollers. So you can use this environment to develop hardware/software solutions such as BluBus... or in my case a PIC powered active equalizer that understands the I-Bus protocol. In fact, I'm already running a custom version of the BluBus firmware which corrects a problem where my TV module cuts the display momentarily while BluBus is trying to determine the car's MID configuration.



So two tasks in the project:

Part 1 is straight forward and I'm going to get started on this right away: Replace the stock power amp with a JL Audio XD400/6 and build a temporary hardwired crossover for it. Three-way front and two-way rear channels. Bridge the fifth and sixth channels for Subs. Or I could use an XD400/4 and modify the rear deck speakers to house infinite baffle mid/sub drivers. That would preserve the stock trunk size. I could also retrofit DSP subs there. I'm actually leaning in the latter direction although the former direction would allow me to put two-way speakers in the rear deck. Not sure if the DSP subs also include mid-range components currently.

edit: I'm gonna go with either the XD600/6v2 with bridged 5th/6th channels, or the XD700/5v2 which is 4 channel amp with a dedicated mono sub channel. I'll use it to fire the stock DSP sub assembly which is a DVC 2 speaker enclosure that mounts under the rear deck. My deck is already cut out for it, just need to remove 2 plugs where two of the speakers exit. So it would be easy to drive the DVC speakers from a bridged 2 channel output. It also appears that each driver can take 2x40W RMS @ 8 ohms. So I just pulled the trigger on one along with the trunk trim piece. I'll fire up a build thread when parts arrive.

I might just stop here if the sound improvement is good enough....

Part 2 is is the real fun part though: design and build the equalizer hardware/software that would replace the hardware crossover. Essentially it would advertise as a stock DSP unit that would light up the Board Monitor DSP UI then act on DSP I-Bus commands. This would be much the same way as BluBus advertises as a stock CD changer and emulates this device. In fact, this project could actually be based on the BluBus design but minus the bluetooth chip and plus an output level active eq circuit. Tricky part would be designing this circuit. All of Ted's project is open source so it would be a real good software/hardware fork from his github repo giving me a tested and working I-Bus interface along with control software.

However, it would be difficult to reverse engineer the DSP I-Bus communication protocol without a DSP vehicle to sniff I-Bus traffic with. Probably would need to locate somebody with a blubus powered DSP E39 (since blubus also has an I-Bus traffic capture component on the serial UI). Also could work with someone who has NavCoder and has built the I-Bus interface circuit. NavCoder also has a very good I-Bus traffic capture/decode capability.