1999 528i wagon. e39

**floorwaxer** · 10-25-2021, 07:25 PM

hello all, i have a 1999 528i wagon/e39. i replaced the battery today and nnnow the car does not turn over. looked at fuse 15...tested the battery all good. i was able to "jump start" the car from the starter so im thinking its some sort of reset i need to do? maybe. any help would be great Thanks..

**rlordjr** · 10-25-2021, 07:49 PM

No reset on that old of a car. Battery or starter is bad

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**rlordjr** · 10-25-2021, 07:50 PM

Or you have bad wires to starter

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**floorwaxer** · 10-25-2021, 09:07 PM

Thank you, ill look into the starter and start testing wires..

**floorwaxer** · 10-26-2021, 11:18 AM

so went out today to start testing, but she started right up, no batt light or anything she's running great. Thank you all for the help.

**rlordjr** · 10-26-2021, 11:19 AM

Just make sure to test alternator output

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**StephenVA** · 10-26-2021, 03:01 PM

How to test (More than you wanted to know)

Starting & charging systems testing techniques
Without spending too much time on starting & charging systems testing techniques, here are a few quick tests to determine a battery issue, a charging system issue, or a primary wiring issue.

Skill Level: 2 + (read and follow instructions)
Tools required: Digital Volt Meter (DVM), battery terminal cleaning tool, and 8mm, 10 mm sockets and ratchet with extensions.

You need to read battery voltage before starting any test on an electrical system as it will influence the results of Starting, Charging, and electrical tests of any kind. (Note: battery must be fully charged, see chart below).

Step One: Get out a digital volt meter, Read battery voltage (Key off). Read voltage (Key on) at the following points Battery, under hood jump point, and at the alternator. You only need to determine if you have 12 volts at the alternator with the key on (BIG FAT WIRE). A simple handheld digital wave form tester will get you in the ball park when it comes to batteries. (Further discussion on these testers is for another engineering forum).
Step Two: You need to read the voltage at the BATTERY at idle, 1500, and 2500 RPM to determine voltage regulator function. Better still would be a Volt Amp tester (VAT-40 Image below) to induce a correct AMP load to read actual AMP/Volt output from the alternator and battery, as that is the only true testing method. Having a DVM that has min/max capability will make your testing easy.
Step Three: Remove and clean each and every ground in the trunk, jump point, and at the frame rail for the block (bad grounds = lots of electrical issues). Clean the starter/alternator cable connection under the car, just under the dead pedal.
Step Four: Failure to get correct output on running test means DEAD alternator (volt regulator, brushes, windings, etc.) Remove and bench test the unit or drag it to your local auto parts store for a second opinion (which will be worth exactly what you pay for it....)

Base line numbers
Battery Voltage should be 12.6+V (Key off) See chart below.
Battery voltage should be 13.5v - 14.5v on running tests (note large fluctuations at running RPMs is a SURE sign that the Volt Regulator is not doing its job. Smack with rubber hammer and retest. Rebuilt units have large variance of quality control from good 85% of the time to approx 50/50%.

NOTE: The exact charging voltage will vary according to the battery's state of charge, the load on the vehicle's electrical system, and temperature. The lower the temperature the higher the charging voltage, and the higher the temperature the lower the charging voltage. The "normal" charging voltage on a typical application might be 13.8 to 14.3 volts at 77 degrees F. But at 20 degrees F. below zero, the charging voltage might be 14.9 to 15.3 volts. On a hot engine on a hot day, the normal charging voltage might drop to 13.5 to 14.3 volts.

Note 2: TIS specifies alternator voltage as 14.3 +/-0.1 V. But that is measured at the alternator output post. The values seen using the cluster will be 0.5 V or more below the alternator voltage output.

Batteries surface charge.

What the heck is a surface charge?
When testing wet cell auto batteries, some will show a 12.xx Volt result, but as soon as a 100-150 amp load is applied, they drop straight down to 9.8V or lower. Classic example of a collapsed cell wall (internal short). This is why too many DIY and techs get stumped when they pull out a meter and say "It shows 12.xxV so it must be good”. NOPE, batteries are tested for voltage holds and AMP draw capacity as well as the ability to recover and recharge over and over again. Batteries are nothing more than an energy storage device. Their usage back in the 1920's allowed for a "self-starter" option, now days we take it for granted. In the future we will use the engine ignition system to fire off a cyl while disabling all other cyls (opening the exhaust valves) allowing for a start that requires no electrical/mechanical starter. A topic for a SAE publication but an interesting future none the less. The challenge is for the average DIY to approx. the load test with KEY OFF.

Solution: Set a volt meter to DC volts 0-25 scale or auto ranging if so equipped. Read and record voltage
Turn on everything in the car for 15 seconds:
Headlamps to high beam
Heater blower motor to high w/ A/C on
Seat Heaters
Rear Defroster (and rear seat blower if so equipped)
Interior lights
Radio
Fog lamps
Cigar lighter
etc, etc, etc

Read voltage after testing. You should see a drop off of .5-1.5Volts during the test and a slow rise back to 12.5V+ on a completely healthy and fully charged battery in 30sec to 1 min.
A battery that is DEAD, will show 9.8V or less and never recover until charged.
Battery Registration: There is NO battery registration required for proper operations in a E39 or E53 application.

Alternator testing tips
To quote another poster...

How to load the alternator at engine idle for alternator output tests:

Note: Alternator output should be tested with the engine idling under the following four loads after at least 15 seconds of idling (for the alternator to ramp up):
Turn the high beams on
And, turn the rear defroster on
And, turn the fan on (full force, I guess)
And, turn the wipers on (to the regular setting, I guess)

These loads should be left on while the alternator output tests are being performed.

Once access to the alternator is gained (access for the I6 is vastly easier than the V8):

Check the voltage from the alternator #30 post and ground
- It should be the same as the battery voltage
Now disconnect the harness connector to the alternator:
Check voltage from terminal 15 and ground (field voltage)
- It should be the same as the battery voltage

More info: Another way to check alternator output is with an oscilloscope. Observing the "ripple voltage" pattern will tell you at a glance whether or not all the alternator windings are functioning. A "good" pattern should look like the top of a picket fence. If any of the humps are missing, it means one or more of the windings is grounded or open, or there's a bad diode. Most battery/charging system testers also have a test function that can detect bad diodes.
Ripple testing with a DVM:

ANOTHER QUICK CHECK FOR BOSCH ALTERNATORS

One way to check the integrity of the alternator and diodes on Bosch alternators is to check the voltage readings at the D+ (blue wire) terminal and B+ terminal. The voltage reading should be the same at both terminals. A difference of more than one volt would indicate faulty diodes and the need to replace the alternator.
Tips link: https://www.diyauto.com/manufacturer...ion-by-bluebee

Volt Drop Testing (Image below) will show you issues with grounds and wiring problems. Read the text and test a few spots to determine if your car has clean connections.
https://www.engine-light-help.com/voltage-drop.html

Are you having other electrical issues? Alternative issues: Ignition Key switch failure, wiring junction box rusted (see water leaks under passenger seat (E39), Water standing in trunk under the battery (E53) and the normal wiring broken connectors, grounds), etc....

Tip Sites for more info:
https://www.aa1car.com/library/2002/cm10220.htm
https://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=510579 (Everything you wanted to know about BMW starting and charging systems for DIY)
Need a Video? https://video.search.yahoo.com/searc...d&action=click

Helpful?
Attached Thumbnails

And even more from the M5Forum!
Got Battery Drain Problems? Check Here

I thought I’d write this to assist any of you that have battery drain problems on your M5’s, I know I certainly did, and I wanted to get to the bottom of it.
IF YOU TRY TO DO ANYTHING LIKE THIS UNDERSTAND THIS IS A GUIDE, NOT A HOW-TO, AND YOU DO SO AT YOUR OWN RISK TO YOURSELF AND YOUR CAR AND ITS EQUIPMENT.
A bit of background, my car is a 2001 Facelift BMW E39 M5, European RHD model, in the UK. Fitted with the comm’s pack with the Motorola V50 cordless phone, the Traffic Master traffic information service, Widescreen Monitor with MK3 Sat Nav Unit, CD changer. No voice controls, no Bluetooth, no sunshades.
Completely electrically stock aside from some LED angel eye rings and LED number plate lights.

Please note that from here on in I’ll be referring to my car, so you need to understand that nearside/passenger side is the left hand side of the car (RHD), and offside/drivers side is the right hand side of the car (RHD). Also, for our American friends, the ‘boot’ is the ‘trunk’ and the ‘bonnet’ is the ‘hood’.

I measured voltages in three places throughout this, the 1 Battery Terminals in the boot, the jump start posts in the engine bay, and the VB reading on the secret menu of the On Board Computer (OBC- Test No 9). The positive engine jump start post is on the passenger side bank of the engine near the plenum, the negative jump start post is on the driver’s side suspension turret.
The voltages between these three positions is drastically different, bear this in mind when your doing any readings, and try to be consistent where you take your measurements from, temperature has an effect on battery voltage too, a battery is generally considered to be fully charged at 12.65v (disconnected from anything) and 11.89v fully discharged, at 20 degrees Celsius, adjusts being made at -0.022v per degree below 20. I.e. fully charged at 0 degrees Celsius would be 12.65 - (20 x 0.022) = 12.21v generally, rule of thumb, not exact science.

Circumstances
Right, here we go….
Back in October 2009, I came to my car one really cold morning, turned the key, flat battery, I got out my multi meter and tested the battery at the jump start posts in the engine bay, 10.7v. No problem, dead battery, expected in cold weather, went and got another one from a local supplier.

After a while, I was having problems again, posted on M5 Board discovered that the battery I had was not suitable for the M5, too low cranking power and amperes and I needed another. I spoke to Halfords who had no bigger batteries, and managed to negotiate a full refund and I had been incorrectly advised by their staff of which battery was right for my car.
Again, Kumaran came to the rescue and pointed out the perfect battery, practically OEM size, 920CCA and 110AH, the Bosch S5 015, available from Euro Car Parts, product code 444779008.

Fitted the battery, checked the voltages for a few days, and seemed ok, lower than I’d have liked, but put it down to the cold weather. (12.18v at the jump start points).
At this point I’ll mention that I had checked the voltages with the engine running, at idle, it measured 13.5v on the OBC, 13.92v at the jump start posts, and 14.2v at the battery posts, so I knew my alternator was ok, and this showed the variation between the different testing points.

Fast forward 6 weeks later………in the UK we have had a cold snap, temps down to minus seven degrees locally for me, Xmas and New Year means I’m not at work, short journeys, a lot of electric systems in use on the car.
Come to the car one morning, turn the key, click click click, flat battery, jump out and check it, 10.98v at the posts, and its minus 4 degrees outside. Jump start the car and alls well, charging fine. Take it for a run for 10mins and then return and start my series of paranoid voltage checks over the next week…….

I discover that the battery is 12.6v after my 45 min drive to work, and if disconnected from the car, despite the low temps, it will hold this voltage all day. Fitted to the car, its 12.4v and 11.9v by the morning, I obviously have some sort of current slow current drain on the car. The car still starts at 11.9v, and in fact does so, all the way down to 11.1v. I remove the battery and have it load tested and it passed A OK.

So I now start reading the internet furiously, to see if anyone else has similar problems, and it would appear it’s a common thing on the aging M5’s, so I decide to investigate it myself.
I learn about the cars ‘sleep’ and ‘awake’ cycles, in which systems in the car are powered down after around 15-20mins and the electrical system goes into idle. So I put the car in sleep mode, and connect an amp meter, to locate the circuits with the current drains.
Sleep Mode
To do this, first of all, you need the car to be some place safe and the weather on your side; you will have the passenger door OPEN (not just unlocked) for most of the day, and the bootlid too.
1) Open your glovebox, remove your torch from its socket, turn the two white clips 90 degrees and lower the front fuse box.

2) The door switch is in the striker on the B-pillar, put the plunger back and then wedge it, I used a wad of paper. Do not close the door now until you’re finished

3) Open the bootlid, and then using the shaft of a screwdriver, click the latch back (So the car thinks the boots shut), the boot light should now extinguish. Do not close the bootlid until you are finished.

4) The car is now ready for diagnosis. An amp meter needs to be connected in series with the cars electrical system, not in parallel like a volt meter, so setup your amp meter to read a figure somewhere around 2A max, giving you 3 decimal places to work with.

5) Disconnect the battery negative lead, and somehow connect one of your amp meter probes to it, I inserted mine under the securing nut and nipped it up to grip the probe. Connect the other amp meter probe to the negative post, I used a small g-clamp for this.

6) The car should kick into life, the glovebox light will be on, the nav system will probably be flashing and reading discs, you’ll probably see 500mAh on the amp meter (0.500). This is fine, leave the car for 20 mins and when you come back to it, the glovebox light should be off, it’s in sleep mode.
Circuit Testing
Here’s where the fun starts, and its better with two people, one watching the amp meter, one pulling fuses, you’ll need a pen and paper to note down which fuses effect the amp draw.
Starting at either the glovebox fuse box, or the boot fuse box (behind the trim on the driver’s side of the car, in the boot) pull one fuse at a time, note its effect, and replace it, then move to the next one. Sometimes this will ‘spike’ a circuit connected to the sleep systems and ‘wake up’ the car, can’t be helped I’m afraid, wait another 20 mins to re-enter sleep and continue. Also be careful not to nudge the switch for the glove box door, this will wake the car from sleep mode too.
UK Glovebox Fuse Layout
UK Boot Fusebox Location

Results
On my car, it was drawing 68mAh (0.068) in sleep, which I believe it too high. The only fuses which effected the reading are-
Fuse 57 - Telephone - Dropped it 58mAh
Fuse 56 – Nav System/On Board Monitor – Dropped it 13mAh
I also, heard that the Trafficmaster system has a parasitic drain on the system, and is permanently supplied. When the traffic master unit is unplugged, the draw dropped by a further 3mAh. Not much, but as it’s now redundant, and it’s easy to remove, I’ll remove it anyway.
So, the problem in my case certainly looks like the phone, i checked the phones display and its was powered up, with “Charging complete” on the display, I quickly un-plugged the phone and then reconnected it, and the amperage dropped to 10mAh (0.010), with that and the traffic master unplugged I got it down to 8mAh (0.008) and 60mAh drop, and I suspect I have found my problem. After disconnecting/reconnecting the phone, the handset remained in a powered off state.
Follow Up and Notes
Don’t forget to remove your paper wad, and you press the button on the bootlid to release the latch before you close it.
So the next day, I repeated the test, phone fitted, and then phone disconnected and see if the results are the same, they were, so that phone was the fault, and removing the phone handset from the car cancelled the drain, and satisfied me that my problem was solved. It dropped from exactly 68mAh to 10mAh again, and the traffic master disconnect dropped it to 8mAh again, a perfectly repeatable test J
So I, removed the traffic master too, every little helps!

I know a 60mAh current drain on an 110AH battery doesn’t sound like much, but its means for me at least the car can stand longer without me worrying about starting it.
Bear in mind in all these tests the alarm is not activated, therefore you do not know the current drain of the alarm system or whether your fault lies there. If you test all the fuses and find no fault found, I’d suggest extending the wires to the amp meter outside the boot, actually closing the boot/doors/glovebox, enabling the alarm, and watching the meter once sleep is activated again.
Best of luck to anyone else having battery drain woes! It wasn’t that difficult in all honesty, just a little time consuming.
Thanks
Matt
UK M5

**floorwaxer** · 11-11-2021, 06:46 PM

o boy, ok so looked over anything and could not find anything wrong, so far i have replaced the batt, and alternator. Volts are good everywhere. im still getting a batt error and the yellow cog wheel with a exclamation point in it and doesnt crank over.