Rebuild a e36M motor complete

[samy01]

We are talking about a North American spec m3 to a euro spec m3.

My bad.

but they are most of them pretty rusty

I don't know about UK, but continental europe isn't extra rusty, as far as I can tell. Yes of course, there's places like poland which can have cold winters which you could compare to the US north, but there's also places like south spain that you could compare to california climate.

What matters more than geography is how the owner maintained his car. I've seen almost rust free e36 here. Depends on the owner.

I'd think you'd be looking at a continental car rather than a RHD car

If he's going to live in the UK, buying a continental car and bringing it to the UK would mean importing. It is already enough complicated across european union member countries borders, but now that UK isn't part of the european union I think i hasn't become an easier process, or less expensive.

[blckstrm]

If he's going to live in the UK, buying a continental car and bringing it to the UK would mean importing. It is already enough complicated across european union member countries borders, but now that UK isn't part of the european union I think i hasn't become an easier process, or less expensive.

I guess I assumed he'd buy it to keep and bring it home once they returned to the states. But I reviewed the thread and he never actually says that. So yeah...

Also, just be careful if you DO buy an M3 over there. I have seen several US S52 motors installed in Euro cars when browsing for Euro M3s. They're usually listed for $8-10k less than a Euro car ($15k vs $25k roughly), and they're usually either track cars or at least dual use cars. I don't know quite what to make of that. I can think of justifications for it, but it seems like importing from the US would be a pain. I also recognize the parts-bin nature of an S52 and have wondered if they were just making an S52 out of an M52, but the cars I had looked at were actual M3s. If they didn't specifically call it out as being imported I didn't go check the VIN and see, though some of them had km-only clusters, so it seemed like those at least weren't US imports. Though I will say that there were / are also a surprising number of US cars for sale over there - I checked Mobile.de just now and 14 of the 90 cars currently for sale are US cars or have US motors (I did not go through all of them, just filtered to get a rough count).

So make sure you're getting a true Euro car!

Also judging from the mileage of most of those cars, OP's 186k would actually be better off than a large number of the cars for sale.

[Braymond141]

There are no fake Euro cars. The S52 you are seeing are NA-Spec cars.

[2005 BIMM3R]

I had my 99 S52 with 190k rebuilt a few years ago and I'll estimate $7,500. I pulled the motor and delivered it to the machine shop (very experienced with BMW engines and uses the torque plate for honing as well as a special machine for the head) with new Mahle pistons/rings, new BMW valves, springs, retainers, seals, oil squirters, freeze plugs, and bearings. They did all the machining on the block and head and assembled the short block and head. I assembled the rest of the motor. The lifters are new and I can't remember the brand but know they are OEM. New BMW timing chain, oil pump chain, sprockets, oil pump rebuild kit, complete engine gasket set, coils, and plugs. Vanos was rebuilt with a Dr. Vanos kit. The only used items I put back in the motor were the cams/trays trays, balancer, the injectors were serviced, and it has the same throttle body and MAF sensor. I want to get Schrick cams and at the time they were on some long ass back order timeframe. The car was apart for about four years because I redid the entire drivetrain also - minus the trans because they are not serviceable and a reman one is insanely expensive. Got everything back together, pulled the fuel pump fuse, turned it over a few times to build oil pressure, replaced the fuse and started the car. I kid you not, it started as if I parked it there the night before - no check engine light or any other issue. I was absolutely amazed. Runs as good as I ever remember. Love driving it and firms my belief this is one of the best built cars ever. May not be the fastest - but it's definitely one of the most fun.

I wish I knew how to post pics - advice welcomed.

Re using new pistons - A very experienced engine builder told me they are essential because the ring grooves wear out - they become wider.

One of the things I did before putting the pan on was prime the oil pump. With the engine on the stand and upside down, I poured oil in the pickup tube and spun the pump with my drill. Makes a mess on the floor but at least you know there is oil in the system.

Hope this helps.

Brent

[samy01]

surprising number of US cars for sale over there

Do never ever buy a used car in europe that was imported from the US when the same model was also originally sold in the EU. 95% of the time the only reason they do it is because they import heavily damaged cars for cheap from the US and fix them cheaply in baltic countries and then try to sell them to europeans in the EU at full price while trying to hide the problems from the buyer.

[notMpowered]

Yeah I have heard of lots of peoples write offs from Canada end up fixed and in Europe.

[mcw323is]

Has anyone here used Metric Mechanic (seemed to be higher in price that the ranges here)? Or for that matter - is Bavarian Engine Exchange still a no-go?

I think I just need new lifters and would do CAMS at the same time, so if anyone knows anything about the labor on that

[Johal E32]

Has anyone here used Metric Mechanic (seemed to be higher in price that the ranges here)? Or for that matter - is Bavarian Engine Exchange still a no-go?

I think I just need new lifters and would do CAMS at the same time, so if anyone knows anything about the labor on that

I had an old 7 series (733i) with a Metric Mechanic motor. The car was originally a 3.2 Liter but it had their "3.9L" stroker kit (which was actually a 3.8L). Very impressive amount of torque and the stroker engine was very healthy 100K miles later. With that being said, I would certainly explore other options before shelling out the big bucks for a Metric Mechanic engine. I'm sure there is a competent machinist in your area that is well versed with BMW straight 6's.

[NoLastName]

Re using new pistons - A very experienced engine builder told me they are essential because the ring grooves wear out - they become wider.

A good engine builder will measure ring grooves and replace the pistons if they're worn beyond spec - but I don't think it's mandatory to replace pistons if they're not worn. My S50 puts down 259hp with 26 year old, 170K mile stock pistons.

I'm sure there is a competent machinist in your area that is well versed with BMW straight 6's.

I'd say they don't even need to be well versed in BMW inline 6s specifically. Most machinists work on a wide range of engine types daily and the principles are similar. The machinist who did my work specializes in air cooled VW engines for offroad racing. He had tons of other engines around the shop too - all different brands and applications that he handles for other repair shops that farm out their machine work. I told him the goals for my engine and he built in the clearances accordingly. I think overall experience is more important than familiarity with a specific engine brand.

[aeronaut]

Has anyone here used Metric Mechanic (seemed to be higher in price that the ranges here)? Or for that matter - is Bavarian Engine Exchange still a no-go?

I think I just need new lifters and would do CAMS at the same time, so if anyone knows anything about the labor on that

If just lifters and new cams, a machine shop is not needed. Unless, you want the head removed, inspected, and refreshed.

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A good engine builder will measure ring grooves and replace the pistons if they're worn beyond spec - but I don't think it's mandatory to replace pistons if they're not worn. My S50 puts down 259hp with 26 year old, 170K mile stock pistons.

I'd say they don't even need to be well versed in BMW inline 6s specifically. Most machinists work on a wide range of engine types daily and the principles are similar. The machinist who did my work specializes in air cooled VW engines for offroad racing. He had tons of other engines around the shop too - all different brands and applications that he handles for other repair shops that farm out their machine work. I told him the goals for my engine and he built in the clearances accordingly. I think overall experience is more important than familiarity with a specific engine brand.

I'm currently in this dilemma, engine out, head will come off, I have all winter. Do I touch the pistons/rings?
One well respected BMW race engine builder (Mino of Achilles) told me, if compressions and leak-down look good, do not remove the pistons.
But I also want an engine that I won't have to touch 2 years from now.

[blckstrm]

If just lifters and new cams, a machine shop is not needed. Unless, you want the head removed, inspected, and refreshed.

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I'm currently in this dilemma, engine out, head will come off, I have all winter. Do I touch the pistons/rings?
One well respected BMW race engine builder (Mino of Achilles) told me, if compressions and leak-down look good, do not remove the pistons.
But I also want an engine that I won't have to touch 2 years from now.

Sorry guys - I'm at 255k and the car feels no different than it did at 16Xk miles when I put the 3.38 in. Would I notice it getting 1% slower per year? Probably not. Would I notice if it no longer had enough power to get sideways at my favorite corners? Totally.

It's using no more oil than it always has, not smoking, oil reports all look about the same, sometimes better if I do a shorter run. Fuel trims and other data is relatively consistent.

There are ample tools to monitor your engine's health without pulling a piston and checking the ring grooves, but it takes enough foresight to do it before it matters.

[mrbeverlyhills]

Thank you very much, this is great info.
I think the biggest aha for me in rebuilding my 964 was that is drove so fantastically well, I couldn't imagine touching the motor (at 163k miles). But the leaks were getting serious and in serious places, a fire hazard to the point I was carrying two extinguishers.

My point is with German engineering, a decent running M3 while a great car, high mileage, runs like it was a baby isn't always true. The 964 rebuilt is a different car compared to pre rebuild and I think a lot of us are taken in by how well our M3s run, never having driven them when new. I didn't realize the 964 had lost a step until it was rebuilt.

As some have written here, 225k and runs like new, may be wishful thinking and as others have said "I don't want to touch it again in 2 years". For me I would want to go all the way, I have 2 daughters neither of which will turn a wrench-let's hope they marry well! On the 964, the pistons and cylinders measured right on the number but no safety margin so I went with new Mahles. There were screams form the peanut gallery on Rennlist arguing against and for but in the end I went with the builder's advice, a crew chief for an indy Porsche IMSA team. If something is marginal, I would replace it or your heirs will.

The most expensive part the Germans make is called "While You Are in There".

Just so we all feel better about one day rebuilding our M3 motors, anyone care to hazard a guess what the 964 was all said and done?

[NoLastName]

just so we all feel better about one day rebuilding our m3 motors, anyone care to hazard a guess what the 964 was all said and done?

$20k?

[mrbeverlyhills]

That is a VERY good guess and the number most often quoted by engine builders. A lot depends on what they find when they get in there and doesn't include wear items like P&Cs, oil pump and the clutch that you should really do once the motor is on the stand. Hardly any cranks are bad and you can regrind the cams, sometimes studs are pulled and need new, mine were fine but again howls of protest from the peanut gallery about going with new.

[jaysonx]

Just so we all feel better about one day rebuilding our M3 motors, anyone care to hazard a guess what the 964 was all said and done?

Only context I have is 2-3 years ago my buddy had nearly $40k into his 964 Turbo rebuild at Speedsport in CT (they were not done, and I stopped asking). Well worth the investment, but classic Porsche ownership is not for the faint of heart! You could buy all OEM all day long on our cars and it still looks like a bargain in comparison.

[mcw323is]

If it’s of any use to anyone, I obsessively look at peoples receipts on bringatrailer if they post them and there’s an e36 M3 4-door that just went live recently and his rebuild (top and bottom) totaled $7000 +\- with some upgrades. He showed labor for removal/replacement, but may have done some of the other assembly himself, hard to tell.

[mrbeverlyhills]

^^^ jeez, I am soooo thankful I am not the only anal retentive auditing Work Orders on BAT. I was very worried about myself for a while.

[RBNetEngr]

^^^ jeez, I am soooo thankful I am not the only anal retentive auditing Work Orders on BAT. I was very worried about myself for a while.

Or, maybe there are just two of you…

I’d still be worried.

LOL


-rb

[mrbeverlyhills]

That's funny, at least I have company! Just freaked that a rebuilt motor for a e36m is so reasonable, I keep asking over and over getting the same answer; does not compute.

[pbonsalb]

964 is less common than USA E36 M3. I think
It is more rare than Euro M3. Rare car, and older than the M3 so it was more ahead of its time. I remember wanting one or a 944 Turbo. In hindsight I am more a turbo person. But could not afford one back then and don’t want an expensive antique toy today (have a built motor turbo E36 M3 and am restoring a 75 2002).

[RRSperry]

Just for information I have a good friend that had his '76 2002 restored two years ago at Ray Korman's shop in NC.. The engine rebuild was about $9,000. For an M10? lol... I think he spent over $50K on that car... It looks brand new..(still drives/rides like crap and I can't/don't want to figure out why). When I restored a 75 02 in 1989, I spent about $20k on it.. (great car that I sold for pennies on the dollar when I went racing). I sent the unibody to a bodyshop and basically rebuilt everything myself. The engine parts were about $3K. bearings, seals... Cam, 10.5:1 pistons, Stahl headers, Weber, new interior, FloFit seats...

Anyway.. I think you could get away with about $3K if you can reuse the internals and don't go crazy with the "while I'm in there" spending... (not counting new flywheel, clutch, pressure plate, to bearing, pivot pin, and arm... which you should do just because)

[mcw323is]

^^^ jeez, I am soooo thankful I am not the only anal retentive auditing Work Orders on BAT. I was very worried about myself for a while.

Ha! I call it "market research" so that when I talk to actual shops in my area at least I have some sort of context