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Just wondering, after all the posts, I haven't come across a full engine rebuild and associated costs. Mine is fine but I see a lot of trepidation from buyers looking at the higher mileage cars; knowing there is a big difference in geography, if anyone has gone whole hog and rebuilt their lump. All new internals, machine work (any benefit in porting the heads?) labor etc. I realize there is a big difference between Braymond and the local non specific speed shop but any input on a rough price would be of interest. I am looking at a high mileage car with no records, it drives fantastically well but interested in a worst case scenario where my daughter misses a money shift and we have to pick up the pieces.
Thanks in advance.
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Just keep in mind that worst case is a new engine.
Worst is WORST case - rod through the cylinder wall, valves broken, pistons toasted, crank and cam surfaces scratched - i.e. nothing salvageable.
You can add up the cost of the components you want, and you don't need a machine shop for much depending on the condition of the block you find. But then again, you'll probably find a whole motor, not just a block. And THEN you'll have to decide whether to trust them and just install it vs rebuilding it.
You could probably do a rebuild on a budget with used parts for under $1000 if you did a lot of homework and were careful.
You could also spend $20,000+ if you want.
It really depends on what you want and how much work you want to do.
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I had the S50 engine in my track car rebuilt a few years ago (I think it was 2015). Instead of paying someone to do the machine work and final assembly I had the short block and head done separately. I did the final assembly.
If I remember correctly the bottom end machine work + bearings + rings + decking was around $1700. That's re-using stock pistons and rods. The cylinders were in good shape and only needed honing. I paid for extras like align honing the main bearing bores, balancing the rotating assembly, and torque plate honing the cylinders. Those extra details turned out to be awesome because the engine is still putting down great numbers years later. It pulls hard compared to the tired S52 in my street car. ARP hardware including head studs added around $550. Torque plate rental from VAC was $150 or so.
The valve job and head resurfacing was $350ish - reusing the stock valves and no port work. Port work would add a lot to that. Aftermarket valve springs added $700 or so. New hydraulic lifters (required because I changed cams) added another $400. If you're not changing cams you might get away with cleaning/refreshing the old lifters.
Other hardware to make an engine "new" really adds up. Seals, oil pump, water pump, timing chain and gears/rails, miscellaneous dowels and hardware, sensors, etc.. Add another $1000+. Then you probably want to replace your radiator and all the hoses, engine and transmission mounts, maybe the clutch if it needs it. It's easy get carried away if you let yourself.
If you do a stock rebuild and handle all labor except machine work yourself, and replace just the bare minimum parts I think you might be able to get away with $2-3K. A money shift, or paying labor for engine removal and installation would probably take you to $5K and beyond.
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https://www.ebay.com/itm/15452375864...0AAOSw1MNdnsFv
$5k for reman engine.
I take solace though the reason you do not see many rebuilds on here is that these are incredibly durable engines.
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Buying a rebuilt engine from an ebay seller that can't seem to write an add using reasonable grammar, or list the work done in a way that doesn't look like a bad craigslist add, makes me think, NOPE.Originally Posted by sirhodjibob
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Agreed. It appears to be a Victor Reinz head gasket in the listing photos..Yikes. It looks like they reuse the pistons as well. Which could be fine, but who knows if they used the right tools to measure the cylinder walls? If the engine is really tired and has a lot of piston ring blow-by, you may need to overbore the pistons as the cylinder walls can ever so slightly "oval" out over time.
A set of new Mahle Power-Pak pistons are under a grand anyways, might as well change them while you are in there..
The way NoLastName did their engine rebuild sounds great. You need to make sure the machinists uses the proper torque plate. No advantage to port or polish the cylinder head unless you plan on doing headers, ITB's, high duration cams etc..
Worst case your daughter money shifts the car on the street and you likely need 12 new intake valves. Just do a top end refresh and move on. If it happens on the track.. she may ruin a piston or send a rod through the block.
Last edited by Johal E32; 10-22-2021 at 11:47 AM.
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Yes, I wouldn't buy an engine on Ebay if the seller spelled and wrote perfectly, and had a PhD in engine building. After doing some research with people I trusted, I bought a complete-rebuild nissan engine from Kyle at IPP in Texas, many years ago. First rate guy, and the engine was great as far as I could tell. As I remember, it was still $4k, and that was around 2007 .
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Some interesting rebuild concepts, I wonder, how much to just rebuild an old engine using factory parts? Let's say the block is worth rebuilding (it is numbered as are the body panels), I don't want to do anything myself, I would rather have it done professionally, tools and I are mortal enemies.
I just rebuild a Porsche 964 3.6 motor and it was like a 3 month colonoscopy crossed with the teeth drilling from Marathon Man. Happy to share to costs but it is the same as buying a good condition e36 M and a honeymoon in Bora Bora. And a VIP weekend in Vegas.
Just wondering, a rebuilt engine from a good indy: total for all parts and machine work plus R&R.
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Haha - same here. I'd buy from Bret if I could afford it. I'd most likely do something like NoLastName and do everything but the actual machining myself, maybe upgrade some stuff along the way or bump compression a little.
But it still feels healthy, even at 255k. And especially after the 6 speed swap almost everyone (my two kids, the odd friend I let drive the car) grabs third instead of first, not vice versa, so the odds of a money shift are thankfully fairly low.
I'd actually really like to do it, but I can't hardly handle not driving for a week, let alone the month or two this would take to do it right...
...
OP - like I said at first, it's going to depend on that you want done. You'll probably have to call around in your own local area and ask what it would cost, and they'll probably (or at least should) quiz you on what exactly you want done.
This seems like a lot of effort for a hypothetical "I might have to rebuild someday..."
I'll tell you right now the answer today is 50% more than if you'd asked 18 months ago.
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Why don't simply you ask shops in your area?
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^^^ Good question. Because "We have to see it". "Depends".
I am asking guys who have gone down this road what they may have paid.
Plus I am guessing I may not be far behind.
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I'd suggest a used s52 over a rebuilt motor. Look for crashed M roadsters. They tend to be super low milage, at least up here in Canada as driving one year round isn't ideal lol. I got a 40k KM s52 for $2500.
As said, these motors are stout. There's a reason there are plenty of 200k e36 m3s out there, and it's not usually because people took great care of them.
- 98 m3, techno/anthrazit cloth, 124k and officially worthless - 89 m3, alpine/black 143k and officially old - 2000 323it, tiag/grey, 169k and officially boring
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If you're looking for wild guesses I'd say a shop will probably charge at least $5-6K+ for the engine rebuild and $2K for labor to remove and reinstall. Just tell your daughter not to money shift
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Even if you found a post where someone described all of the costs, it would be irrelevant today with all the inflation that is going on.
Member
Thanks for all the advice, well received.
the car runs beautifully at 186k miles but it is a 10 owner theft recovery. All vin tags though and rust free/no accident New Mexico car so it isn't going to depreciate. My wife is British and we plan on spending some more time there, I was going to ship the car over there. So the thinking was maybe rebuild the motor here before that as being cheaper; the girls are very careful even at the track so I malign them with the money shift crack. I blame the wine.
The other option was to buy a Euro e36M there but they have appreciated same as here and are very very rusty. A nice e46m can be had for less than here though so maybe another option.
I was just curious because the 964 rebuild was a effing chore, if the same applied to the e36.
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You're worried about your car at 186k? I thought you said it was high mileage?
Haha - that's not high mileage. It will be fine for a long, long time. I've got 255k and still have a healthy motor / good oil reports. I think you're overthinking this. A lot. As good as I think my M3 is, they're not bringing air cooled 911 money yet (and that goes for the parts, too). Now, an S14... maybe. But notMpowered had good advice.
If you're going to do anything - especially going over there - buy an S50B32 and bring it back with you.
(By the way, they haven't appreciated over there. They never depreciated in the first place.)
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Forget it. 4-8k euros for a usable engine. Condition unknown. Sitting on a wooden pallet in some fat cigarette smoking polish mans backyard shed. That's how that works over there.
In europe if you want to buy used old BMW parts from a private party, you'll be dealing with lots of shady people. I've been there trying a similar thing.
People generally refuse compression tests claiming you could damage the engine. Would you hand such a guy 5k euros in cash for an engine? That's 6k USD. Just walk away from that you say? You'll walk away from every engine then, that's how people are. They rather sell to another fat smelly backyard shed guy. 6-10k with shipping. Not rebuilt. Imagine shipping that to the US. All the costs. Tons of unique parts on an euro 3.2 m3. If you just swap the engine alone you'll need many parts typically not available (or very expensive) in North America and you won't be able to think of all of them beforehand to bring them with you.
If at all, get a complete euro M3.
Last edited by importbanana; 10-23-2021 at 10:27 PM.
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He's discussing shipping his car over there and back again out buying a euro car and bringing it home. Just take your car and do the engine replacement while it's over there if you're going to replace it either way. I'd rather find out I have to rebuild an S50B32 than an S52. I doubt the rebuild parts are much different in cost (if they're different at all).
And in any case that works out less than buying a whole (rusty) euro car...
-Josh: 1998 S54 E36 M3/4/6 with most of the easy stuff and most of the hard stuff. At least twice. 271k miles. 1994 E32 740il with nothing but some MPars. 93k miles.
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And you'll end up with a Frankenstein car. A true euro m3 is different in many other aspects besides engine and transmission. You will have to keep it or bring it to North America then, there's a market for that. In europe people won't touch such a car with a stick because it's just a swapped car. You likely won't get back what you invested here.
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The only difference besides the drivetrain is a $300 set of front brake rotors and headlights. Hardly "many other aspects."
- 98 m3, techno/anthrazit cloth, 124k and officially worthless - 89 m3, alpine/black 143k and officially old - 2000 323it, tiag/grey, 169k and officially boring
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These are not the only things that separate a non-m from an Euro 3.2 m3.
Last edited by samy01; 10-24-2021 at 01:32 AM.
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We are talking about a North American spec m3 to a euro spec m3.
- 98 m3, techno/anthrazit cloth, 124k and officially worthless - 89 m3, alpine/black 143k and officially old - 2000 323it, tiag/grey, 169k and officially boring
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Don’t forget the warning triangle in the trunk!!!
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I wasn't going to source a Euro M motor, I would buy a complete car, but they are most of them pretty rusty. And expensive. By the time you source all the parts and add labor you don't gain all that much and you wreck the value of the US car.
I do think I've seen that Polish guy though, sitting in a cluttered garage smoking like a lab beagle........
There isn't much difference between a US and EU car after we in the US have made some performance upgrades, to me in my 1 driving experience, the biggest difference was the 6 speed in the EU and the final drive. Handling wise I didn't find any difference, you can definitely feel the EU car come on the cams but once you hit traffic, the torque makes the US car a more pleasant car to drive casually.
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I'd think you'd be looking at a continental car rather than a RHD car, and I would think those would be less prone to rust?
Though I may disagree that an S50 swap would wreck the value of a US car, I don't know that you'd come out ahead from a strictly financial perspective. Though you'd need to do the tranny too, while that would be a lot easier there than here a newer trans like a GS6 will feel WAY better and would probably be a better choice if the motor wasn't the main driver behind the work. And that wouldn't necessarily be any easier there than here.
From a benefit perspective, I'd guess half of us have a diff swap already, upgraded brakes, and Euro headlights... and maybe 10% have a tranny swap.
I'll also admit that having a Frankenstein car requires a little more care and feeding than a stock car - which you may or may not be up for.
More to the point - if you've got all this at hand, the trouble and expense of getting a rusty Euro car here may not be worth the headache.
-Josh: 1998 S54 E36 M3/4/6 with most of the easy stuff and most of the hard stuff. At least twice. 271k miles. 1994 E32 740il with nothing but some MPars. 93k miles.
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