UUC DSSR Question - '98 M Roadster

[davidlieb]

Hi,

I read on the forum in multipule places that a DSSR for the M Roadster will cause an offset in the shift pattern. I wrote to UUC and they told me that this is absolutely not true.

Does anyone have experience with the UUC DSSR?

Also, do you like it? My previous car was a Miata and I miss the shifting action.

[s8ilver]

I like mine. Very direct.

[mpire]

Honestly, the quality of those Chinese parts aren't very good and I wouldn't buy anything from them.

If you have slop, you can replace the wobble and the shifter spring washers.

Unless your shift carrier is EXTREMELY Worn out in way that I've never seen before, the whole DSSR thing is a pointless gimmick.

The stock parts have absolutely no slop, other than the wobble. The wobble is $15 for a new one, plus grease.

Gearshift rod joint 25111222688 $15.10

Plastic washer 25111220439 $0.25


So the whole concept of the DSSR is just snake oil nonsense.

[rboehl]

I like mine also but it came with it already installed. My previous Mroady didn’t have it and this current one is definitely superior but Mpire is probably right on the money.

[lapoune]

DSSRs do nothing for shift quality. I actually have the UUC, amongst other too. If you just want a refresh go with new OEM like mpire said, or if you want actual improvement talk to Ronald at autosolution and have him build you a shifter. This way you actually remove any slop in the OEM system. Also replaces the plastic ball and cup with a teflon coated stainless ball and bearing. He will build it to whatever height and throw reduction you want.

I've messed around with shifters a lot on BMWs for various projects, and this is pretty much the only way to go, and once you get eyes on the system and how it actually works its very obvious.

To answer your question, though I think its pointless, the UUC has the necessary twist in it to keep the shifter centered.

[PbFut]

Some of the old timers may remember the original DSSR did not have the required twist to center the shifter. The first batch placed the shifter in a tipped position. I can't recall the direction. After complaints from Z3 buyers they changed subsequent batches and corrected the problem. Whoever you spoke with at UUC was probably not there when this all happened. I think they replaced then problem bars for those who complained.
As far as it's benefit. Its a personal choice. The weight of the bar does change the feel. Some like it, some don't, and some don't even notice. It's not dramatic and actually more noticeable when you get in a car without after have one in for a while. Its not better or worse. Just different to me. Others will have a different take.

[mpire]

You can always get a weighted bar from Rogue Engineering, or you can just wrap your existing bar with solder and tape if you're cheap.

I just find that UUC quality jumped the shark over a decade ago and its sub par and more applicable to civics and lancers.

- - - Updated - - -

Also replaces the plastic ball and cup with a teflon coated stainless ball and bearing.

When someone makes a better wobble, I'll buy one. No one seems to bother with the sloppiest part in the shift linkage.

I've messed around with shifters a lot on BMWs for various projects, and this is pretty much the only way to go, and once you get eyes on the system and how it actually works its very obvious.

I've got a box of shift levers, probably more than 10. If the rogue shifter's weren't adjustable I would probably go back to stock.

[Tim95M3]

the whole concept of the DSSR is just snake oil nonsense.

100%

Freshen up all the bushings, maybe add a shifter (although I think the stock M shifter feels fantastic)

But you're never going to make it feel as nice as the Miata shifter. That was one of my favorite things about my girlfriend's NA.

[IndianaRoadster]

I read an article the other day about why different shifters feel different. I don't know myself, just posting what I read, but it was a interesting theory. The just of it was that the "beefier" the gears the more the synchros had to work thus making it a little more difficult to shift. Using the Honda S2000 as an example, the gears were just thick enough to absorb the torque put through it plus maybe 20%. Where as our transmissions can handle 450 to almost 500 HP. If that is true, then our cars have more room to modify than some of the others. I guess it's a trade off when it comes to shifting.

[Hoyt Clagwell]

100%

Freshen up all the bushings, maybe add a shifter (although I think the stock M shifter feels fantastic)

But you're never going to make it feel as nice as the Miata shifter. That was one of my favorite things about my girlfriend's NA.

I used to have a girlfriend with an NA Miata. Boy I miss that car. That shifter was sublime! I guess I'm chasing a dream thinking I can get the Z3 shifter to feel like that. Overall though, I much prefer the Z3.

[BimmerBreaker]

I don't believe the DSSR is nonsense but it is only one part of the whole system. The shift carrier at the rear attaches to the chassis but the front bolts to the transmission. The transmission moves as it is sits on the rubber mounts so the design of any stock shifter mechanism will have multiple points of "slop" to account for this. As the transmission shifts around under changing loads this causes the shift carrier itself to move (rotate) as the rear attachment is a simple round rubber bushing, this deflection is also transferred through the selector rod and especially if shifting quickly under high loads, this can lead to an undesirable feel as the transmission's slight rotational movement pulls the selector rod as you are trying to shift. The plastic bushings on the selector rod have to allow for this deflection. The DSSR limits the total amount of possible deflection at the selector rod by attaching on both sides at the transmission selector rod joint and the shift linkage. However the downside of this system is that it transfers the movement of the transmission to the shift lever itself, instead of the selector rod and it's bushings taking up the slack. It would seem that BMW's design goal was to make a system that kept the shift lever itself in the same place regardless of where the transmission was, so they designed slop in the system to allow for the shift linkage/carrier to flex when the transmission is moving under load. A DSSR creates a little more solid feel at the expense of some (slight) shift lever movement at the extremes

With that being said, if someone was complaining about poor shifting feel, I'd replace all the bushings (and inspect trans/engine mounts), including the rear one the shifter carrier sits in, before I would recommend a DSSR upgrade. DSSR's are mostly beneficial to a specific type of driving style, particularly those with a rather aggressive shifting behavior. Generally speaking, if you have a shifting style in which you are shifting relatively "smoothly" then you probably won't benefit from a DSSR. Track guys, drift nuts, people who shift at redline every shift may benefit from a DSSR as they are more likely to be shifting gears while the transmission is moving around and they experience more of that slop. None of my cars have DSSR's

If you want better shifting feel, install a transmission-mounted shifter. The only downside of those is none exist for the E36/Z3 chassis. They do have chassis-mounted shifters, which eliminate a lot of the goopiness in the system (and introduce a lot of artificial notchiness imo, but that's a different discussion) but those are required to run stiffer or sometimes solid transmission mounts and those mounts themselves limit the transmission's ability to flex which itself would also benefit the stock system... it's a bit like selling headers that you promise gain 100hp+, but saying you have to also a install a supercharger with those headers

The miata referenced earlier shifts so well because it came from the factory with a transmission-mounted shifter

[Hoyt Clagwell]

Excellent explanation BB.

[Hoyt Clagwell]

OK, so here's my reasoning on how to get a more solid shifter feel. First, of course, I need to replace the shift pin bushings then, I'm thinking to install firmer engine and transmission mounts along with the softest poly shift carrier arm bushings that I can find. That way, the whole drive train should move around less. I'm willing to get some increase in NVH for a more solid and connected feel.

Is there any other downside to installing firmer engine/transmission mounts besides more NVH? I'm talking solid rubber or soft poly. For example, would it put too much stress on the frame?

[BimmerBreaker]

They make subframe reinforcement kits to reinforce where the engine mount attaches to the subframe, that'd be my main concern as I've seen several stock powered cars create small tears/rips in the subframe. Many people run poly mounts without a second thought though. I wouldn't worry at all about the transmission crossmember

[Hoyt Clagwell]

They make subframe reinforcement kits to reinforce where the engine mount attaches to the subframe, that'd be my main concern as I've seen several stock powered cars create small tears/rips in the subframe. Many people run poly mounts without a second thought though. I wouldn't worry at all about the transmission crossmember

Are talking about this reinforcement? I already have one that came with the car.

Subframe reinforcement.jpg

[BimmerBreaker]

That is an x-brace, all Z3's and E36 convertibles have those. The reinforcements are plates that need to be welded in around where the engine mount bolts to the subframe, like these

[Hoyt Clagwell]

That is an x-brace, all Z3's and E36 convertibles have those. The reinforcements are plates that need to be welded in around where the engine mount bolts to the subframe, like these

OK, thanks. I probably don't drive my car hard enough to need these and the underside is in near perfect shape in terms of rust. It's good to know these are available though.