Timing Job Advice

[Noobe31]

Hi,

I have searched all around the forums, youtube and talked to some friends. I have a pretty good grasp on the timing chain job on the M62TU but still have some open questions I was hoping someone could help me with.

1) Do the chains need to be changed or is it preventative? I see the various kits of only guides and others with chains. I get the "while you're there" part of it but this car isn't worth every detail but certainly worth the basic job (200k miles on it).

2) Has anyone ever used the eBay kits for the timing kit? Yes I know it is "eBay" but I mean I read around and see the typical "buy two sets, do it right etc etc" but no one has a first hand experience with it and I have not found any specific posts claiming the eBay kits/guides have failed specifically....

Not trying to cheap out but for $180-$250 and no real negative reviews anywhere and tons of positive eBay feedback its tough not to at least consider it. I can't imagine the demand is high enough to have multiple facilities plastic and metal casting sets for all the different brands available.

3) I plan on sending the Vanos out for a rebuild (I don't want to deal with it my self). Can anyone recommend a service online they have personally used?


Lastly... If point number 2 is a completely bad idea can someone point me in the direction of a parts list or brands that will do an adequate job without breaking the bank

[JimLev]

Noobie, look at the teeth on the sprockets, if they look good your chain should be good too. I did replace my long chain only because I bought all the parts before I took my engine apart. The old 130K mile chain was exactly the same length (no stretch) as the new chain.

Ebay kits can be hit of miss. I know a guy on the other forum that used an Ebay kit and got timing codes, he then got a Baum kit and all was well.
I have a Koch timing kit. You can rent a kit from German Auto Soultions, GAS.

I’ve been rebuilding vanos using BeisanSystem o-rings for the last 7 years, PM me for details. I have units boxed up on the shelf ready to ship.

[MotorMouth93]

1) I would replace the chains, they don't cost much.

2) Rent or buy the GAS timing tools. I don't know if GAS still does the rentals but I know there's a few forum members who have them, I do.

3) @jimlev sells rebuilt VANOS units, I'd probably trust his more than anyone else.

4) FCP euro has various pre-assembled kits depending on how in depth you want to go with the job.

[sienayr]

Here's my list. There's a lot of "while you're in there" stuff that you can take or leave as needed. Don't forget the oil filter. My indy let me buy and bring all my own parts, and that was all I forgot. Also need oil and coolant of course.

Desc	Part	Qty
Crankshaft Seal Front - 11141275466	11141275466	1
Valve Cover Seal Washer - 11121437395 (x16)	11121437395	16
Valve Cover Seal Washer - 11121721879 (x6)	11121721879	6
Valve Cover Gasket Set Left - 11120034105	11120034105	1
Valve Cover Gasket Set Right - 11120034104	11120034104	1
Upper Timing Cover Seal Strip (Cylinders 5-8) - 11141741128	11141741128	1
Upper Timing Cover Seal Strip (Cylinders 1-4) - 11141741127	11141741127	1
Timing Cover Gasket Set Lower - 11141436978	11141436978	1
Distribution Housing Gasket Left (Cylinders 5-8) - 11361705579	11361705579	1
Distribution Housing Gasket Right (Cylinders 1-4) - 11361705578	11361705578	1
Oil Pan Gasket - 11131436324 (540i/740i)	11131436324	1
Oil Dipstick O-Ring - 11431707164	11431707164	1
Coolant Pipe O-Ring - 11531710048	11531710048	1
Coolant Pipe O-Ring - 11531710055	11531710055	1
Oil Level Sensor O-Ring - 12611744292	12611744292	1
Water Pump	11510393336	1
Thermostat	11531436386	1
alt belt	11287636377	1
ac belt	11287636376	1
adj pulley	11287515865	1
adj pulley	11281742859	1
tensioner	11281745545	1
coolant hose	11537505229	1
coolant hose	11537505228	1
coolant hose	11537511207	1
coolant hose	11531711385	1
coolant hose	11531711381	1
coolant hose	11531711384	1
O ring for hose 11531711384	11537501777	1
coolant temp sensor	13621433077	1
BMW OE (dealership)
Cylinder Head Oil Check Valve (E38 E39 E52 E53) - Genuine BMW 11121706921 (x2)	11121706921	2
Oil Separator (540 740) - Genuine BMW 11151705272	11151705272	1
Seal Ring-Crankshaft tensioner rubber grommet - Genuine BMW 11141736758	11141736758	1
Timing Chain Guide Rail - Genuine BMW 11311741777	11311741777	1
Timing Chain Guide Rail - Genuine BMW 11311741236	11311741236	1
Timing Chain Guide Left Lower - Genuine BMW 11311745406	11311745406	1
Timing Chain Guide Upper - Genuine BMW 11311435028 (x4)	11311435028	4
Timing Chain - Iwis (OEM) 11311741746	11311741746	1
VANOs Chain Tensioner O Ring	07119906361	2
Center Crankshaft Bolt - Genuine BMW 11231736585	11231736585	1

[timpnw]

I did this job.

1. Easy to replace at that point. Might as well for the cost and at that mileage... I didn't, as I was only at 100k. That said, the chains aren't really a point of failure. When you tighten the guides up, and pull out the slack in the existing chain turn the motor over by hand... if you have any play in there. replace the chain.
2. I used the GAS kit. No brainer for my limited skill set. In the grand scheme of things it adds like 10% to the total parts bill... plus you will have people lining up to use it or buy it. Go GAS.
3. I used Vanosman. No issues. Really good price compared to others.
4. Motormouth is offering good advice... Those FCP Eurokits have everything. I piecemealed mine. Kind of wish I just pushed the button for the big kit. Don't forgot things like the oil separator, tensioners.

The bigger issue is this is not a 20 hour job for running through it the first time. Budget way more time and recruit a buddy to talk through parts of it. My buddy was my dad dropping by to help me figure out how to bust the crank bolt off after shearing two 1/2 breaker bars.

[scubajim20]

Watch the youtube videos, Use the G.A.S. tools and instruction. Jim Lev posted a great video about final timing. Take your time! Clean as you go (a lot of brake cleaner). There is always an O-ring or small part that you break that needs to be added to the project.

[JimLev]

My rebuilt vanos come with 8 additional o-rings that are for the cam to cam chain tensioner and the SAP tube that connects to the heads.
Here’s the timing video.
https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...a-540tu-engine

[Noobe31]

@JimLev, I'll be sending you a PM.

Thanks for the list Sienayr, that's perfect!

Back to the point 2 of my original post. I was really talking about kits like these https://www.ebay.com/itm/27236814889...YAAOSwsS1ZkzWE or https://www.ebay.com/itm/27236814889...YAAOSwsS1ZkzWE

I get the whole "eBay is cheap, china etc etc." but realistically has anyone had known issues with these parts? Again I find it really hard to believe that there is enough demand/volume to make multiple assembly lines with multiple plastics/metal casting facilities to make kits that net the manufacturer enough profit to make these. I'm almost thinking these are just white labels of the aftermarket.

Here's my list. There's a lot of "while you're in there" stuff that you can take or leave as needed. Don't forget the oil filter. My indy let me buy and bring all my own parts, and that was all I forgot. Also need oil and coolant of course.

Desc	Part	Qty
Crankshaft Seal Front - 11141275466	11141275466	1
Valve Cover Seal Washer - 11121437395 (x16)	11121437395	16
Valve Cover Seal Washer - 11121721879 (x6)	11121721879	6
Valve Cover Gasket Set Left - 11120034105	11120034105	1
Valve Cover Gasket Set Right - 11120034104	11120034104	1
Upper Timing Cover Seal Strip (Cylinders 5-8) - 11141741128	11141741128	1
Upper Timing Cover Seal Strip (Cylinders 1-4) - 11141741127	11141741127	1
Timing Cover Gasket Set Lower - 11141436978	11141436978	1
Distribution Housing Gasket Left (Cylinders 5-8) - 11361705579	11361705579	1
Distribution Housing Gasket Right (Cylinders 1-4) - 11361705578	11361705578	1
Oil Pan Gasket - 11131436324 (540i/740i)	11131436324	1
Oil Dipstick O-Ring - 11431707164	11431707164	1
Coolant Pipe O-Ring - 11531710048	11531710048	1
Coolant Pipe O-Ring - 11531710055	11531710055	1
Oil Level Sensor O-Ring - 12611744292	12611744292	1
Water Pump	11510393336	1
Thermostat	11531436386	1
alt belt	11287636377	1
ac belt	11287636376	1
adj pulley	11287515865	1
adj pulley	11281742859	1
tensioner	11281745545	1
coolant hose	11537505229	1
coolant hose	11537505228	1
coolant hose	11537511207	1
coolant hose	11531711385	1
coolant hose	11531711381	1
coolant hose	11531711384	1
O ring for hose 11531711384	11537501777	1
coolant temp sensor	13621433077	1
BMW OE (dealership)
Cylinder Head Oil Check Valve (E38 E39 E52 E53) - Genuine BMW 11121706921 (x2)	11121706921	2
Oil Separator (540 740) - Genuine BMW 11151705272	11151705272	1
Seal Ring-Crankshaft tensioner rubber grommet - Genuine BMW 11141736758	11141736758	1
Timing Chain Guide Rail - Genuine BMW 11311741777	11311741777	1
Timing Chain Guide Rail - Genuine BMW 11311741236	11311741236	1
Timing Chain Guide Left Lower - Genuine BMW 11311745406	11311745406	1
Timing Chain Guide Upper - Genuine BMW 11311435028 (x4)	11311435028	4
Timing Chain - Iwis (OEM) 11311741746	11311741746	1
VANOs Chain Tensioner O Ring	07119906361	2
Center Crankshaft Bolt - Genuine BMW 11231736585	11231736585	1

[JimLev]

OK, I’ll be waiting for your PM.
#2 was about the gaskets not the timing tools. Those 2 links you provided are from the same guy. Do you know who made the gaskets?
Here’s the FCPEuro option for reference.
https://www.fcpeuro.com/BMW-parts/54...=6&b=5&d=10&v=

Noobie, more vanos info for you.
https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...sale-with-pics

[scubajim20]

The two sources I used the most was the G.A.S. and Besian instructions. I'm sorry I don't have an info on other timing kits. You can borrow or rent one of the known ones and not have to second guess. JMI

[Chedley]

.....
I get the whole "eBay is cheap, china etc etc." but realistically has anyone had known issues with these parts? ...
.

@ OP --->
IIRC, I have seen a utube video comparing the GAS tools to the cheaper chinese and ebay tools kits.
The video seemed to indicate that the only difference is the lock pin tool that holds the crankshaft at tdc.
And more crucial, the precise timing cogs locking tool from GAS.

[Noobe31]

To clarify I am talking about eBay timing chain guide kits. If you go to eBay and type in “540i timing guides” there are complete kits. They include chains, tensioner, gaskets, guides etc for $250

[seagreen323i]

To clarify I am talking about eBay timing chain guide kits. If you go to eBay and type in “540i timing guides” there are complete kits. They include chains, tensioner, gaskets, guides etc for $250

I'm not sure about the success rate on them, find out the brand of it if you can. This is an interface motor, valves will kiss pistons if for instance a cheap chain snaps. I'm not saying it's likely, im just saying it's good insurance. If a cylinder wall gets nicked on one of these bad boys it's not just a rebore unless you want to sleeve the whole thing. I wouldn't do it if I were you.

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[Noobe31]

Totally agree on the risk. I will message the sellers and see what they say.

I'm not sure about the success rate on them, find out the brand of it if you can. This is an interface motor, valves will kiss pistons if for instance a cheap chain snaps. I'm not saying it's likely, im just saying it's good insurance. If a cylinder wall gets nicked on one of these bad boys it's not just a rebore unless you want to sleeve the whole thing. I wouldn't do it if I were you.

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[ThePhantom!]

Thanks for this, I have been searching for a detailed list of parts to replace "while you're in there"

[sienayr]

Thanks for this, I have been searching for a detailed list of parts to replace "while you're in there"

My list does not cover valley pan gasket as I had already done it, so if you want to do that you'll need to track down a parts list for that.

[ThePhantom!]

Thanks for letting me know. I already resealed the intake manifold and replaced the valley pan!

[seagreen323i]

Thanks for letting me know. I already resealed the intake manifold and replaced the valley pan!

Do yourself a favor, clean everything you see.

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[sienayr]

Ugh, the cleaning. Why every job seems to turn into double or more the time you plan for. While I'm sure most respectable mechanics so some level of cleaning, they can't afford to clean everything with love like we do (or their customers can't afford or to or won't pay them to do so); I think it would drive me a little bit crazy if I wrenched for a living and had to just focus on fixing the problem at hand and leave behind dirt and grime.

[seagreen323i]

Something that tripped me up, don't forget to transfer the little set screw that holds tension on the osv from the old U guide to the new one. My new U guide didn't come with one and I had to take the front timing cover off again. Ensure you are in TDC at all times. Once the guides are installed removed the locking pin and the cam locks(leave the tension on the left side guide using the tension tool) and rotate by hand, go ahead and pull the spark plugs so you can feel for any binding. Then MAKE SURE its put back into TDC (this is where I messed up) to put the cam sensor pickups in time. If the engine does not start but runs when the cam position sensors are unplugged its due to the sensor plates being off by 180° (ask me how I know lol). Put some oil/assembly lube on the guides(I used moly engine assembly lube because I had it, oil works fine) and make sure to just drizzle the cams if the motor is open for a little while, not necessarily because they are dry but just incase any dirt or dust made its way onto them. Check the oil pump chain mine had 210k miles and was well within spec so im sure its fine for you as well. Clean out the oil pump pickup because you'll already have the pan off (mine was spotless). If you decide to pressure wash the timing covers like I did don't pressure wash the idler pulleys because it kills them

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[JimLev]

Wow, gold plated internals, that’s gotta be worth at least 10HP.
Still running good SG, no codes?

[seagreen323i]

Wow, gold plated internals, that’s gotta be worth at least 10HP.
Still running good SG, no codes?

Not a single code, running perfect! I'm assuming that's staining from the oil? Didn't really wipe away. Brake cleaner made it fade slightly.

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[scubajim20]

The gold color maybe from poor oil quality or lack of oil changes. That's the input I have heard from other members. Can't imagine it has any impact.

[seagreen323i]

The gold color maybe from poor oil quality or lack of oil changes. That's the input I have heard from other members. Can't imagine it has any impact.

Well it ain't blown up yet so it can't be that bad.

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[JimLev]

I’ve seen a lot of engines that were gold color inside, always figured it was from not using synthetic oil.