96'+ Front Control Arm Solutions

[onetap]

Looks like the kit from ecs matches the 95 version which matches the part number. Strange that the holes in the arm match 96+ one.

I'm curious how much of a difference it really makes. Given my car isn't tracked and I already got the alignment, pretty sure these are staying on lol

IMG_2016.jpg

[bluptgm3]

Looks like the kit from ecs matches the 95 version which matches the part number. Strange that the holes in the arm match 96+ one.

I see the “Meyle” stamp, to the best of my knowledge Meyle E36 FLCAs are the E30/E36 non-‘M’/1995M3 geometry.
I would be curious to see alignment specs. Did you also fit 1995M3 offset FLCA bushings?
If you installed ‘centered’ FLCA bushings you may have lost some caster (/wheelbase length). With offset bushings, the caster should be close, however a slight loss of camber.

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[onetap]

I mentioned above that I used center bushing, did not get alignment specs, and that these are the 95 m version

I just noticed when I was under the car the tie rods lengths seem off by a few threads, may go back to the shop to double check the specs and also get a print out. Will update the thread if I do

[shogun]

here are the other 2 threads we discussed this subject in the past years
https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...light=Mevotech
https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...light=Mevotech

[scott0482]

I put these on my 1997 Sedan, I hope I am good

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-assemble...11222284612kt/

Meyle Heavy Duty Front Control Arm - Left - E36, Z3		1
Meyle Heavy Duty Front Control Arm - Right - E36, Z3		1
M3 Front Control Arm Bushing Set		1

[bluptgm3]

what about these? https://www.ecstuning.com/b-assemble...11222284612kt/

edit: nvm these do not look like the M version, not sure why they show as compatible. Unfortunately I purchased/installed these last month. How much of a difference would this make?

I put these on my 1997 Sedan, I hope I am good

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-assemble...11222284612kt/
Meyle Heavy Duty Front Control Arm - Left - E36, Z3
[TD] Meyle Heavy Duty Front Control Arm - Right - E36, Z3
M3 Front Control Arm Bushing Set

The proper setup on a 1996+M3 using aftermarket FLCAs such as Meyle (E36 318/323/325/328 and 1995M3 geometry) is with the 1995M3/E30M3 (or similar) offset FLCABs.
You will end up with caster value somewhere between the stated values for a 1995M3 and a 1996+M3. The wheel base will also fall between the non-‘M’ and ‘M’ values.

“M3” wheel base value - 106.7” Sedan/Coupe
318/323/325/328 wheel base value - 106.3” Sedan/Coupe

From Bentley manual, page 320-6, “Table a”
Caster @ 10 deg loc
1995M3 s/b 6* 38’ +/- 30’
1996+M3 s/b 9* 35’ +/- 30’

Caster @ 20 deg loc
1995M3 s/b 6* 52’ +/- 30’
1996+M3 s/b 7* 50’ +/- 30’

On a recent Hunter based alignment sheet - 7.1* - 8.1* is an acceptable static caster value for my 1999M3.


For 318/323/325/328, Sports suspension model have slightly more
Caster @ 10 deg loc
s/b 3* 41’ +/- 30’

Caster @ 20 deg loc
s/b 3* 52’ +/- 30’


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[scott0482]

so my front wheel base is slightly narrower than stock? like less than 1/2 inch?

[bluptgm3]

so my front wheel base is slightly narrower than stock? like less than 1/2 inch?

Right. The caster angle (should be) less than defined for an 1996+M3 and the wheelbase will be slightly shorter. Those values I provided are from a M3 and a 328 owners manual.

The delta in caster from the offset bushings appears as though it is going to be small, in the realm of 1* (I am guessing.)

I installed the 1996+ M3 Guide Supports (GS) on a 328 w/M3 Bilstein/Dinan setup, which added ‘significant weight’ to what was very light steering.
The resultant caster is 6.2*/5.8* (L/R) from a measured 3.8*/3.5*, so the bulk of the caster is in the strut mounts (Guide Supports) as would be expected when comparing the shift aft of the 1995M/1996+M3 GS to the centered position of a 318/323/325/328 GS.

Linking threads of additional information

https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...al-dimensions)

https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...9#post30219499

https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...E36-M3-spindle



In summary, both of the upper strut mounts - 1995M3 and 1996+M3 - move the strut aft adding caster, from the strut tower center position of the 318-328 strut mount position.

The 1996+M3 upper strut mount or Guide Support also moves the top of the strut outboard into a more upright position removing camber. The redesigned King Pin/spindle of the 1996+M3 adds inclination. The resultant change in the spindle, strut mount, Forward Lower Control Arm (FLCA) and centered Forward Lower Control Arm Bushing (FLCAB) result in more camber at full lock, however the part geometry changes resulted in less static camber. Swapped 1996+M3 strut mounts - L-R/R-L - add ~ 3 deg camber. The additional caster that resulted added high speed stability


The 1995M3 added offset FLCABs to the E36 geometry moving the spindle slightly forward, in addition to moving the upper strut mount aft within the Guide Support..

Early production Sport Suspension 325 cars could be 'optioned' with the offset FLCABs for added caster/high speed stability.


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[FriedKalamari]

I'm not familiar at all with caster measurements so excuse my ignorance here, but from what i'm reading I can run the 95' M3 arms, end up with a little less caster, but it'd be marginal? I also happen to have TCK coilovers & camber/caster plates. Correction - I see that it's the wheelbase that would be slightly less. Is that something that would be noticeable at all? 1/2" seems like kind of alot, visually speaking.

[bluptgm3]

Caster will probably be less than 'book' for a 1996+M3 and the wheelbase will be slightly shorter than the 1995/1996+M3 wheel base.
You are also correct, moving from a centered FLCA (w/1995M3 FLCA) to an offset FLCA not only moves the spindle forward, the change also narrows the track an small amount as the FLCA rotates slightly about the inner ball joint.
I am guessing the significance is limited and partially correctable with aftermarket adjustable caster/camber plates that have sufficient range.
Generally no impact for a tamely driven daily driver.

What is not discussed that I have seen is the significance of the change of the rotation axis of each control arm. Both the E30M3 and the 1995M3 use the offset FLCABs.
I am assuming the centered FLCABs of non-‘M’ E36 and the 1996+M3 places the FLCA rotation axis parallel to the centerline of the car, the offset bushing places them at a slight angle to the centerline. What affect, if any, does this place on the fore/aft position of the front roll center?

[NeilM]

so my front wheel base is slightly narrower than stock? like less than 1/2 inch?

Wheelbase is the distance between the front and rear axle lines, so shorter/longer. Narrower/wider is track.

Neil

[blckstrm]

This extended backorder is becoming a real pain. The shop I had press in new ball joints messed them up, and after less than 5k miles I'm already needing to do this again.

Didn't someone (seems like it was Brett) have some of these they'd already made that they were willing to share?

[FriedKalamari]

This extended backorder is becoming a real pain. The shop I had press in new ball joints messed them up, and after less than 5k miles I'm already needing to do this again.

Didn't someone (seems like it was Brett) have some of these they'd already made that they were willing to share?

That is frustrating.

Is Brett the username "Braymond" by any chance? If so I PM'd him for a pair without a respond unfortunately.

I've decided to go with the MTC's. As long as the ball joints and geometry are correct I'm giving it a shot.

[blckstrm]

That is frustrating.

Is Brett the username "Braymond" by any chance? If so I PM'd him for a pair without a respond unfortunately.

I've decided to go with the MTC's. As long as the ball joints and geometry are correct I'm giving it a shot.

Yeah, Braymond is Brett. He hasn't been online much the last couple weeks, but he just wrote me back. He says he's not doing them anymore.

I ordered from FCP originally, so I just ordered a new set of ball joints and I'll get a press from Harbor Freight and just do it myself. Clearly I'd have been money ahead the first time if I'd bought the press and done it myself instead of paying this crappy place to do it wrong.

[TostitoBandito]

Yeah I mean if you have space the harbor freight press is honestly no more expensive than paying someone to do it in a shop.

[blckstrm]

Yeah I mean if you have space the harbor freight press is honestly no more expensive than paying someone to do it in a shop.

Yeah, I don't really, which is why I paid a shop. My garage is pretty full right now, which is also the one reason I don't have a welder. The one time I've paid a shop in the last 8 years and this is how it turns out.

I won't be making that mistake again.

So i don't have room, but I'll just break down the press to store it. I obviously would have been money ahead if I'd done it the first time...

[golgo13]

I did this recently. Pretty easy job even with a 10T press.

I removed my OEM 96+ M LCAs, cut the tips off the balljoints at the base and then pressed each one out. Pressing in new ones takes a few pieces of steel tubing so you have clearance for the balljoints when driving them straight into the LCA. The whole job took maybe an hour including cutting off the tips and pressing them out and in not to mention getting them off the car.

I went to a local junkyard and sourced a couple spare arms so I no longer have downtime. I just remove the old LCAs and swap in the new ones. I just take the balljoints from FCP Euro and send them the old ones.

PRO TIP: Use a punch and a hammer to mark the orientation of the ball joints before you remove the old ones.

[importbanana]

I just take the balljoints from FCP Euro and send them the old ones.

Why do you send them old balljoints?

[bluptgm3]

Why do you send them old balljoints?

LOL!! ‘Life Time Warranty’ on parts from them…not sure how to demonstrate failures…


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[golgo13]

Why do you send them old balljoints?

Why?

LOL!! ‘Life Time Warranty’ on parts from them…not sure how to demonstrate failures…

For this reason. They are a consumable in motorsports requiring changes every 12-18 months, so you can send them the old ones as part of the lifetime warranty. I assume they just inspect them and see it's worn then credit your account.

[importbanana]

Am I understanding this correctly, their warranty really covers normally worn out balljoints? Can you also send them old brake pads and get free new ones?

[shogun]

yes, brake pads are included, see the details here https://www.fcpeuro.com/page/lifetime-guarantee

[importbanana]

wow. okay. never heard of such a thing. wonder how that adds up for them. Most people probably don't bother with sending back small things like spark plugs and the more expensive parts don't fail that often, or the margin covers the next replacement already.

[golgo13]

wow. okay. never heard of such a thing. wonder how that adds up for them. Most people probably don't bother with sending back small things like spark plugs and the more expensive parts don't fail that often, or the margin covers the next replacement already.

The used motor oil gets me but here we are lol

[blckstrm]

They obviously need to validate they're sending you REPLACEMENT parts rather than just more parts - thus wanting the old parts back. It's to prevent abuse, not to check that they were actually worn enough to merit replacement...

Also, personally I draw the line somewhere on the other side of things like oil and brake pads, so I wouldn't send back things that are actual consumables rather than just wear items (like these ball joints). I want them to stay in business - most stuff I don't replace often enough to warrant buying purely based on free replacements - and this is most people. So their parts need to be close to the price of the average out there to get bought in the first place.