First "Modern" BMW Question

[cavilry]

Howdy all!

(Feel free to skip to the questions if you don't feel like reading through the background.)

I've owned a number of BMW's in my time ('94 325, '97 M3, '03 M5) and worked on even more (a few E30s, a 2002, etc.) but I've never owned one of the more "modern" cars. Now that I'm a "responsible father" and all that, my time to play with cars is drastically reduced. Additionally, I'm now back to commuting over 100 miles/day and my truck just ain't cutting it. With those things in mind and with a limited budget, I've been looking to track down a new daily driver that can also fill in a bit when I just need to toss a car into a corner. At almost 2,000 miles/month I need something fuel efficient and not insane to maintain. Yeah, I need a civic but it isn't going to happen.

My search down the VW TDI rabbit hole led me to the 328D or 535D and I kind of zeroed in on the 328D. However, after a few weeks of searching for the car I want (primarily needs to have the M-Sport package) I've realized I'm after a bit of a unicorn. Then I got to thinking about the 328i which seems to still get good MPG and could potentially be cheaper to maintain thanks to having a more "mainstream" engine.

A few questions:

1. I hear horror stories about how much of the driving experience has been lost in modern BMWs. Am I going to get any of that "joy of driving" I got from my E36 and E39?
2. Similarly, I hear these things are impossible to work on yourself. Is that true and am I going to be running into insane maintenance bills?
3. Most of the cars I am finding which are in my price point are 2014-2016 cars with somewhere between 50-70k miles. Does that raise any red flags for either the 328d or 328i? I plan to keep this car for a while so any car I get will likely eventually need to be running reliably at well over 100k miles.
4. In general, any thoughts on these as a daily driver with the long commute? It's actually not a bad commute as it's a straight shot up the coast on Highway 1 from Santa Cruz to Half Moon Bay. Rarely any traffic so I set the cruise control at 60 and know I'll see my destination in an hour.
5. Based on current prices, the 328D would save me roughly $70/month in fuel costs over the 328i. That's $840/year but would additional costs of maintenance wash out that savings?

[RBNetEngr]

I’ll give you some personal opinion answers, since I’ve traveled a similar path, and have owned an E30 318i, E36 M3 (still have), E34 525iT, E39 525i, and now an F30 328i.

Howdy all!

(Feel free to skip to the questions if you don't feel like reading through the background.)



A few questions:

1. I hear horror stories about how much of the driving experience has been lost in modern BMWs. Am I going to get any of that "joy of driving" I got from my E36 and E39?

Driving the F30 is definitely more refined than the older cars. It is also similar in size to the E39. The electric power steering has less feel than the old hydraulic systems. And the suspension is much softer. But my only issue that I will address is the suspension, once I determine a proper setup for it. Otherwise, I am happy with this modernized BMW model. Also, the eight-speed ZF auto transmission is very good. And if you put the car in Sport mode, the shifts are crisper, and the engine is more responsive.

1. Similarly, I hear these things are impossible to work on yourself. Is that true and am I going to be running into insane maintenance bills?

I have done oil change, brakes (pads, rotors, fluid) filters. I plan on replacing auto trans fluid/pan/filter myself, as well as the suspension. One issue with some other components is that there are computerized systems that need to be reset, so you would need something to do that (I don’t have anything like that). I imagine that with an OBDII connection and a program on a laptop computer, you could achieve much of this functionality.

1. Most of the cars I am finding which are in my price point are 2014-2016 cars with somewhere between 50-70k miles. Does that raise any red flags for either the 328d or 328i? I plan to keep this car for a while so any car I get will likely eventually need to be running reliably at well over 100k miles.

Our 328i is a 2014, and had 27k miles on it when purchased in 2017. It was also a CPO car, with warranty extended another year. The major red flag with this car is the N20 engine, which has issues with the timing chain, chain guides, and tensioner. If they break, it can destroy your engine. There’s a Class Action lawsuit against BMW because of it. I would suggest looking for a newer LCI car (2015 or later), and make sure it has the newer B48 engine. I can’t comment on diesel vs petrol since I don’t have any experience with the diesel.

1. In general, any thoughts on these as a daily driver with the long commute? It's actually not a bad commute as it's a straight shot up the coast on Highway 1 from Santa Cruz to Half Moon Bay. Rarely any traffic so I set the cruise control at 60 and know I'll see my destination in an hour.

My wife uses the 328i as a daily driver, but for about half the distance you’ll be driving it. On the highway, if you’re moving, you can get pretty good fuel economy. Not sure about a commute in your area, though. But as far as top fuel economy, driving on I-10, San Antonio to Tucson, with Economy Modes enabled and cruise control set at 75 mph, I was seeing 34-35 mpg.

1. Based on current prices, the 328D would save me roughly $70/month in fuel costs over the 328i. That's $840/year but would additional costs of maintenance wash out that savings?

Again, no experience with diesel.


-rb

[cavilry]

I’ll give you some personal opinion answers, since I’ve traveled a similar path, and have owned an E30 318i, E36 M3 (still have), E34 525iT, E39 525i, and now an F30 328i.

-rb

Thank you very much for your insights, that is sincerely appreciated! This car doesn't meet the later engine requirement, but I have to say I'm pretty smitten. My favorite color and the right packages. I'd planned to go see it this afternoon but perhaps I'm jumping the gun? https://www.capitolmazda.com/invento...3c1c54ek107742

[RBNetEngr]

I didn’t see it in the features list, but I’m pretty sure this car has the M-Tech (or whatever they called it) package, that includes Sport suspension (firmer springs, bigger swaybars, lower ride height) and has bigger brakes, too. That was a nice package.

But that definitely has the N20 engine.

I asked a local independent BMW shop how much they would charge to replace the timing chain, guides and tensioner, as a precaution against failure, and they quoted around $5k.


-rb

[visionaut]

I’m super pleased with my 2016 4-series — 435iX Gran Coupe. My other Bimmer is a hot-rodded ‘76 2002. They both can deliver the Freude am Fahren, even if 40 years apart. Heck, I even love the Sport Auto ZF8…

I had to get the turbo inline 6, and I can still get 30+mpg hwy.

I got mine CPO, it’s an x-drive M Sport, and it’s very well optioned - but the options that make me smile most in the twisties are in the THP package - M Brakes, M Adaptive Suspension and the Variable Sport Steering.

I’m just out of warranty- but I do my own oil & filters, tires/wheels/brakes, coolant and other typ maintenance myself. I’ve also done several performance mods myself - including engine HW upgrades (intercooler, charge pipe, intake, oil thermostat) and custom ECU coding (via Bimmercode) and Engine Flash tuning (via MHD).

Re: your 5 Qs:
1. Many of the newer Bimmers are more sedate. Get one with with the right sport options and you can be happy.
2. If you’re mechanically inclined there’s still many things you can DIY. Computer savvy too, then more. But I have to say there’s WAY more I can’t do myself anymore. Get a good BMW-model specific code reader/writer, and buy Torx sockets/drivers.
3. Avoid any cars that have heavy mods and ECU tunes unless you know the PO was responsible and did things right. As for the general engine - N26 is nice improvement over N20, and the B48 more so. Check/change the timing chain and related bits on any N20 seems prudent.
4. On longer drives, putting it in Comfort or Eco-Pro will work great. If you use it the Adaptive Cruise is a nice option too.
5. With the Diesel you have to run DEF, that was a big turnoff to me. And I couldn’t figure any real fuel savings given costs, only less fuel options.

[cavilry]

Y'all are legends, thank you very much for the additional information. Well, against my better judgement I'm going to go look at the 328i this afternoon. Which means, knowing myself, I will likely become smitten with the car and buy it. There just haven't been any 328i's with the "right" packages that have come up in my price range (this one is even slightly outside of it). But they offered a 3-year bumper to bumper warranty (yeah yeah, I know) which is enticing. I "decoded" the VIN and this was the result I got back. Assuming this is correct, the car seems pretty "fully loaded."

Type	3C13
Model	328i
Vehicle History	Get a car report instantly!
Market	USA
Development Code	F30
Chassis	Sedan
Steering	left
Doors	4
Engine	N26
Displacement	2.00 l
Power	180 kW
Drivetrain	Rear-Wheel Drive
Transmission	automatic
Color	Estoril-blau Metallic - B45
Upholstery	Leder "dakota"/schwarz - LCSW
Manufacturer	BMW AG
Mileage	Show mileage of this vehicle
Production Plant	Munich, Germany
Production Date	2013-09-16

1CA	Selection Cop Relevant Vehicles	Selektion Cop Relevanter Fahrzeuge
1CB	Co2 Content	Co2 Umfang
216	Servotronic	Servotronic
249	Multi-function For Steering Wheel	Multifunktion Fuer Lenkrad
258	Runflat Tyres	Bereifung Mit Notlaufeigenschaften
2NH	M Sportbrake	M Sportbremse
2PE	18"m Lt/aly Wheels Star Sp. 400m/mt	18"m Lm Raeder Sternsp.400 M/mb
2TB	Sport Automatic Transmission	Sport-automatik Getriebe
2VB	Tyre Pressure Indicator	Reifendruckanzeige
302	Alarm System	Alarmanlage
319	Integrated Universal Remote Control	Integrierte Universal-fernbedienung
322	Comfort Access System	Komfortzugang
337	M Sport Package	M Sportpaket
3AG	Backup Camera	Rueckfahrkamera
3DZ	Without Additional Designation Outs	Entfall Zusatz-schriftzug Aussen
403	Glas Roof, Electric	Glasdach, Elektrisch
423	Floor Mats, Velour	Fussmatten In Velours
430	Interior And Exterior Mirror Packa	Innen- Und Aussenspiegelpaket
431	Interior Rr Vw Mirror W Aut Anti-d	Innenspiegel,automatisch Abblendend
459	Seat Adjustm., Electr. W. Memory	Sitzverstellung, Elektr.mit Memory

465	Through-load System	Durchladesystem
481	Sport Seats F Driver/front Passenger	Sportsitze Fuer Fahrer/beifahrer
488	Lumbar Support Driver/front Passenger	Lordosenstuetze Fahrer/beifahrer
493	Storage Compartment Package	Ablagenpaket
494	Seat Heating F Driver/front Passenger	Sitzheizung Fuer Fahrer/beifahrer
4DX	High.trim Fin. Blue Met. Matt	Akzentleisten Blau Met. Matt
4MR	Int. Tr. Fin. Aluminium Hexagon	Interieurleisten Aluminium Hexagon
4NE	Blow-by-heater	Blow-by-heizer
508	Park Distance Control (pdc)	Park Distance Control (pdc)
521	Rain Sensor	Regensensor
522	Xenon Light	Xenon-licht
524	Adaptive Headlights	Adaptives Kurvenlicht
534	Automatic Air Conditioning	Klimaautomatik
544	Cruise Control With Braking Function	Geschwindigkeitsregel. Mit Bremsf.
563	Lights Package	Lichtpaket
575	Additional 12v Power Socket	Zusaetzliche 12-v-steckdose
5AG	Lane Change Warning	Spurwechselwarnung
5AS	Driving Assistant	Driving Assistant
5DL	Surround View	Surround View
5DS	Luggage-compartment Emerg. Release	Kofferraumnotentriegelung
609	Navigation System Professional	Navigationssystem Professional
610	Head Up Display	Head-up Display
645	Radio Control Us	Radio-steuerung Us
655	Satellite Radio	Satellitentuner
688	Harman/kardon Surround Sound System	Harman/kardon Surround Sound System
697	Area-code 1	Area-code 1
6AC	Intelligent Emergency Call	Intelligenter Notruf
6AE	Teleservices	Teleservices
6AK	Connecteddrive Services	Connecteddrive Services
6AM	Real Time Traffic Information	Real Time Traffic Information
6AP	Remote Services	Remote Services
6NR	Apps	Apps
6NS	Enhanced Telephony With Extended Sm	Komforttelefonie Mit Erw. Smartphon
6WA	Instrument Cluster W. Extended Cont	Instrumentenkombi. M. Erw. Umf.
704	M Sport Suspension	M Sportfahrwerk
710	M Leather Steering Wheel	M Lederlenkrad
715	M Aerodynamics Package	M Aerodynamikpaket
760	Individual High-gloss Satin Chrome	Individual Hochglanz Shadow Line
775	Individual Roof-lining Anthracite	Individual Dachhimmel Anthrazit
823	Hot Climate Version	Heissland-ausfuehrung
840	High Speed Synchronisation	Hochgeschwindigkeitsabstimmung
845	Acoustic Belt Warning	Akustische Gurtwarnung
853	Language Version English	Sprachversion Englisch
876	Radio Frequency 315 Mhz	Funkfrequenz 315 Mhz
8KL	Oelserviceint. 15.000km/12months	Oelwartungsint. 15.000km/12monate
8S4	Decoding Variable Light Distributio	Decodierung Variable Lichtverteilun
8TH	Speed Limit Info	Speed Limit Info
8TN	Daytime Driving Lights Selectable B	Tagfahrlicht Ueber Lichtmenue Einst
925	Shipping Protection Package	Versandschutzpaket
992	Number Plate Attachement Management	Steuerung Kennzeichenbefestigung
993	Model Year Code	Modelljahrescode
9AA	External Skin Protection	Aussenhautschutz

[visionaut]

Yeah, that looks pretty nicely optioned. The M Brakes are outstanding. The Adaptive Xenons are great - so much better than the regular Halogens (even better than the new LEDs). The HUD is a nice extra. M Sport suspension is well-regarded.

Looks like that interior might be kinda unique.

Check the ConnnectedDrive services to see if the car is eligible for the free BMW Telematics upgrade offer (to replace 3G modem, since 3G phases out 2/22).

Good luck!

[cavilry]

Well, just to close the loop on this I did go see the car yesterday afternoon. In general, I was most definitely impressed. The "split personality" enabled by the various drive modes was great and seemed like it would fit my desire to find a "do it all" car. Something for commuting, date nights with the wife, the occasional twisty road, etc. That said, there were some parts of the car I did not like as much as I thought I might have. I don't know if I'm getting old or just used to driving my truck for the last year+ (first time without a car in my life!) but the driving position just wasn't as comfortable as I would have liked. I know there are endless adjustments but I couldn't get it quite right, and considering I sit in the car for 2.5 hours/day, that's important.

In the end though, the deal breaker came down to all of the fancy features. I remember having to dig into the electronics on my E39 and it was a chore. I can't imagine what it would be like on an F30. We're trying to make California work on one income and it seemed irresponsible to buy the car without a warranty given the potential for costly repairs. The warranty offered was $5,000 for 3 years and they just wouldn't budge on either the warranty cost or the car cost. I ended up walking with the promise I'd let them know today but after thinking about it, I think I might have to pass. The plan will be to save some more money (and hope it doesn't get wiped out by another kiddo hospital visit) and hopefully track down a newer M Sport from BMW CPO in a year or so.

Thank you guys again for your insights on this!

[328 Power 04]

The electronics aren't a disaster in the F30 chassis, but I guess there can be issues. In my opinion, the E39 had more failures with that GM module.

N47 diesel is a gem of an engine.

[SaucyZ3]

Idk if you guys can help but am new here don’t even know how to make new post yet but here we go am looking to find out a production number on my Z3 it’s 2001 Dakar yellow 3.0 5speed brown extended interior (not cinnamon) with the beige top Msport package any help would be great thanks