Transmission case sleeves, ZF 4HP22/24 EH valve body questions

[whiskychaser]

735i some models don't have EML but it has cluster A/M switch when you select mode A on cluster screen show E that is your emergency mode.

E does not mean emergency. It means economy mode and is the default setting when you turn on the ignition. In fact, when the trans does go into failsafe mode, you get 'trans program' in the cluster and the range and program lights in the cluster go out. A is the same as E just as M is the same as *. Maybe refer to page 17 of the file electran1 - Shogun included a link for it at post 92 above

[Annddrriy]

Why when you turn program switch to M mode you have M letter on cluster but when you turn switch to A you don't have A you have something else. It comes letter E. If you get trans program car can not move anywhere you have to tow I had third time that transs program the forward gear clutch A was burn out. It was difficult to put on A/M switch letter E instead A that you would have on cluster letter E. It is not the same when turn A and you have E this is different letter. If you turn A and you have A on cluster this is same but when you turn A but you have E on cluster this is not same. It is very simple to understand.

[shogun]

quotes by Annddrriy:

The EML light could be by-pass or remove the bulb from cluster here you go

My EML bulb is not removed, every time I switch the ignition on it makes the self test = EML light on for about 2 seconds and then goes off = all o.k. Rest assured, my 750 runs perfect, no fault codes at all.

when you select mode A on cluster screen show E that is your emergency mode

E does not mean emergency. It means economy mode and is the default setting when you turn on the ignition.
Transmission Program Switch
The transmission program switch is used to switch between various operating modes of the transmission. The normal default mode of the TCM is Economy which is indicated in the program display as “E”. Economy mode allows the transmission to operate in the most efficient mode. Shift priorities are for maximum economy and shift comfort. On some vehicles the program switch is designated “A” for economy mode. Program switches come in 2 or 3 position configurations. Early vehicles with the 4HP (Early E7) used a rotary program switch.
The TCM can also be switched to “Manual Mode” which on some vehicles is designated “Winter Mode”. Manual mode is used to start the vehicle off in a higher gear when encountering slippery conditions. The program display will indicate “M” (manual) or an asterisk symbol for “Winter Mode”.
Sport Mode is the third operating mode that is available. Sport mode allows for a slightly delayed and more aggressive shift. Sport mode is obtained a number of ways. On vehicles with 2 position program switches, moving the selector lever out of drive to 4,3, or 2 with the program switch in Economy will allow Sport mode. On vehicles with 3 position program switches, Sport mode can be obtained by switching to “S”.

apparently you mix up the information in the Instrument Cluster.The cluster is used to report information to the driver regarding transmission status. There are three items of information needed by the driver:

• Transmission Range - this indicates the position of the range selector lever. The driver needs to know whether the transmission is in P, R, N, D, 4, 3, or 2.
• Transmission Program - this indicates the mode of operation. There are 3 modes, Economy, Manual and Sport .
• Transmission Fault Information - the driver needs to know of there is a malfunction in the transmission. Depending upon application, transmission faults can be indicated by an icon or by a “Transmission Program” message in the instrument cluster display matrix.

And last thing what he said this automatic transmission never will function right. Probably plant did not finished this project completely and stop on their half way of it and get rid of it this automatic transmission

I disagree. It was produced over a period of 23 years and used by major car manufacturers, also top class luxury makers. For it's time it was top of the class. The 4HP22/24 was developed before 1980, more than 40 years ago, introduced in 1980, it was produced through 2003, and has been used in a variety of cars from BMW, General Motors, Jaguar, Land Rover, Maserati, Peugeot, Porsche, and Volvo.

[Annddrriy]

Was checking today ground at TCU harness plug pin connector #5 and #19 was ok. Pin connector #3 wire not used and pin connectors #31 and #32 also not used. The TCM #31 is full load and throttle position signal is #32 EML vehicle. ZF late E-7 version pin connector wire #31 is full load by brake light switch and #32 is EML signal no connection. TCU location under driver side pilar. That car years 1986-89 model 635csiA had EML ? Thanks !

[Annddrriy]

I was thinking when gear selector is set to position drive in mode A you have A and where the letter D drive when you drive instead D it will shift gears by numbers 1-2-3-4 the last gear will show you letter 4 on cluster that is last gear but change the gear by numbers on cluster automatically you can look it what number on cluster depends what gear are. Some other cars has that when gears shift you can look on cluster what gear you have.

[shogun]

that car years 1986-89 model 635csiA had EML ?

1986 -1989 E24 do not have EML. Do not mix up different models, built years, only your built year and month of your E32 735 is important. Cars using Bosch EML are
Bosch M1.2 E32 M70 1988-1990
Bosch M1.7 E31 M70 1990-1994
Bosch M1.3 E32 M30 1991-1992
Bosch M1.3 E34 M30 1991-1993
Bosch M1.7 E32 M70 1991-1994
Bosch M1.7 E32 S70 1994-1995
As I have already mentioned several times since month, if your mechanic cannot assemble the valve body or is not sure, he/you can contact ZF North America with the serial number, model type of the transmission and Stucklistennummer and they send you the detailed parts list and diagrams for your car.

I was thinking when gear selector is set to position drive in mode A you have A and where the letter D drive when you drive instead D it will shift gears by number 1-2-3-4 the last gear will show you letter 4 on cluster that is last gear but change the gear by numbers on cluster automatically you can look it what number there depends what gear you are. Some other cars has that when gears shift you can look on cluster what gear you are.

Again here are the details what you can see in the cluster

Transmission Range - this indicates the position of the range selector lever. The driver needs to know whether the transmission is in P, R, N, D, 4, 3, or 2.
• Transmission Program - this indicates the mode of operation. There are 3 modes, Economy, Manual and Sport .
• Transmission Fault Information - the driver needs to know of there is a malfunction in the transmission. Depending upon application, transmission faults can be indicated by an icon or by a “Transmission Program” message in the instrument cluster display matrix.
page 28, 29 http://www.e38.org/e32/e32_1988_manual.pdf

When car move forward when gear selector is set to position D and torque convertor clutch locked I don't think that is ok.

the user manual says: the car tends to creep forwards (or backwards) if the engine is running at idle speed and a drive ratio is engaged. Before leaving the car with the engine running , first selected P or N and engage the handbrake.

[Annddrriy]

Ok thanks very informative. ZF early E-7 version diagram pin connector wire #31 wide open throtlle. There is no wire on TCU harness plug wide open throtlle. Needs to install that wire for pin #31 ?

[shogun]

I strongly recommend: keep all as is original, do not make any changes from original version on your car. Do not mix up other built years, other valve bodies, other transmission control modules, other DME's. Your's is E-9.
Also the TCU units are different between these model years.

The 1st version, designated Early "E-7", has 5 solenoids on the valve body, was introduced in 1986 and used up thru 1989. This version includes a solenoid for reverse lockout.
The 2nd version, designated Late "E-7", has 5 solenoids on the valve body, was introduced in 1988 and used up thru Mid-1989. This version includes a solenoid for reverse lockout.
The 3rd version, designated "E-9", has 4 solenoids on the valve body, was introduced in Mid-1989 and used up thru 1994. This version uses a shift solenoid for the reverse lockout function.

[whiskychaser]

When car move forward when gear selector is set to position D and torque convertor clutch locked I don't think that is ok.

If the TC clutch were engaged before the car moved, the engine would stall. It would be just like letting the clutch right out on a manual. TC lockup is an economy measure. It occurs in cruise when there is very little torque.

[shogun]

yes, that is also what the training manual says: increased fuel economy through use of lock up torque converter.
Torque Converter Clutch
Since the efficiency of the torque converter at coupling speed is approximately 1.1 to 1, fuel economy is compromised. To offset this a torque converter clutch was added on EH controlled transmissions. The torque converter clutch locks the turbine to the converter housing. This creates a mechanical coupling with a ratio of 1:1. This can only be achieved at higher engine speeds, the torque converter clutch must be disengaged at low engine speeds to prevent stalling.
4HP22/24 EH, A5S310Z - These transmissions use an on/off control method to lock and unlock the torque converter. The Torque Converter Clutch is either completely engaged or disengaged. This method of engagement provides an abrupt sensation when the TCC is locking and unlocking. This abrupt sensation can be undesirable to some drivers. The TCC is spring loaded to the engaged position. Pressurized fluid releases the TCC, when the pressurized fluid is released, the TCC is engaged. Depending on transmission application, the TCC can be engaged in 3rd, 4th or 5th gear. The TCC must be disengaged at low speeds to prevent stalling.
for E32 735 switching points in 4th gear = D, Economy
TCC closes at 2230-2300 RPM
TCC goes open 1740-1890 RPM

3rd gear
TCC engaged at 4230-4450 RPM
TCC disengaged at 4000-4200 RPM

at speeds in KMH
4th gear
disengaged 83.0-90KMH
engaged 90-97KMH

3rd gear
engaged 144-150KMH
disengaged 138-145KMH

[Annddrriy]

Torque convertor inside has lock up clutch which is operated by solenoid this is slip plate fibber glass material which can slipping with oil easily then engine will not stall car has drag forward and forward gear clutch A slipping when gear selector is set to position D. What do you think when I removed oil pan inside was lots fibber glass material on the magnets. That is mean torque convertor stay locked when gear selector is set to position drive or reverse. When gear is in neutral position clutch is not locked. How to check for make sure if torque convertor is locked ? How lock up solenoid works ? Torque convertor stay locked when power 12 volts go to solenoid or when power is off ?

[Annddrriy]

The TCC spring loaded to the engaged position. Pressurized fluid flow throgh input shaft make spring loaded inside the TCC. When the pressurized fluid is released the spring is not loaded anymore there is no pressurized oil on the spring. Turbine and clutch disangaged from convertor housing.

[Annddrriy]

If both test will be done by checking solenoid for ON and OFF functioning. If each function ON/OFF not disengage turbine with lock up clutch from converter housing there is hydraulic problem. Problem could be in valve body with the springs.

[whiskychaser]

You will see from the wiring diagrams that all solenoids share the same live which comes on with the ignition. They are energised when the TCM grounds the appropriate pin. When that happens, the voltage on that pin will drop

[Annddrriy]

Yes. MV-1 AND MV-2 SOLENOID BODY which of those two solenoids make torque convertor clutch valve to shift ?

[Annddrriy]

Yes. MV-1 AND MV-2 SOLENOID BODY which of those two solenoids make torque convertor clutch valve to shift. Is that correct ?
Screenshot_20220113-140906.jpgWatch this very informative for those who has torque convertor clutch locked through all forward gears.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWFN5l1wcm4
On the other hand keeping the converter locked through the shifts produces more shock load into the transmission. An unlocked converter absorbs a lot of shock load. That is why shifting not smooth of locked clutch in torque convertor. Makes rotation 1:1 in each gear.

[shogun]

if you torque converter clutch would be always engaged, then your engine would stall, so we can assume your TCC works properly.
Transmission Oil Pan Inspection: even after only 10.000km your will find normal wear parts in the ATF pan. Small particles and blackish film on the magnet is normal. Gold colored metal flakes indicate brass material from the thrust washers and bushings. Metal flakes indicate worn gear teeth. Aluminium particles indicate part of the carrier, case of gear set. Chunks of black material indicate worn clutch material. Some gray metal fuzz and a little black sludge are pretty normal wear. The alarm bells should ring when you find large metal parts and the transmission fluid smells burnt.

[Annddrriy]

The engine can not stall I already explain it about. I will give simple an example as I can. Your car has a brakes front and rear when you press brakes car slow down depends how hard you press foot pedal to the floor. Brake shoes is slipping dry between rotors and brakes. Same thing in torque convertor the rotor in your car is a convertor housing and linning brakes is a turbine with lock up clutch it is slipping with oil if clutch locked to the convertor housing and slipping easily not like brake slipping dry. If is dry and no ATF inside then TCC it might stall but it could still slip not for long time. If is ATF inside it slips with low 450RPM. That is my opinion you don't have to agree with me if you don't want its up to you.

[Annddrriy]

I want ask you which solenoid shift valve makes torque convertor lock the clutch ? If torque converter clutch valve shifts by the solenoid MV2 then lock up clutch solenoid would be power on and off. I would like to check with test light or with multimeter I will hook up one lead of the multimeter to ground and another lead to pin whatever solenoid pin is. Than I will know for make sure solenoid ON or OFF position while I will drive on first gear. E-9 version 4 solenoid valve body two position program switch. Thanks in advance for your answer !

[a777fan]

Wow. Hats off to shogun and whiskeychaser for hangin in there.

[shogun]

The engine can not stall I already explain it about. I will give simple an example as I can. Your car has a brakes front and rear when you press brakes car slow down depends how hard you press foot pedal it is slipping dry between rotors and brakes. Same thing in torque convertor the rotor in your car is a convertor housing and linning brakes is a turbine clutch it is slipping with oil if clutch locked to the convertor housing and slipping easy not like brake slipping dry. If is dry nothing inside TCC it might stall but it could still spin and slip with low 450RPM. That is my opinion you don't have to agree with me if you don't want its up to you.

That is my opinion and the opinion of the training manual from BMW/ZF design experts:
The torque converter clutch locks the turbine to the converter housing. This creates a mechanical coupling with a ratio of 1:1. This can only be achieved at higher engine speeds, the torque converter clutch must be disengaged at low engine speeds to prevent stalling.
4HP22/24 EH, A5S310Z - These transmissions use an on/off control method to lock and unlock the torque converter. The Torque Converter Clutch is either completely engaged or disengaged. This method of engagement provides an abrupt sensation when the TCC is locking and unlocking. This abrupt sensation can be undesirable to some drivers. The TCC is spring loaded to the engaged position. Pressurized fluid releases the TCC, when the pressurized fluid is released, the TCC is engaged. Depending on transmission application, the TCC can be engaged in 3rd, 4th or 5th gear. The TCC must be disengaged at low speeds to prevent stalling.
for E32 735 switching points in 4th gear = D, Economy
TCC closes at 2230-2300 RPM
TCC goes open 1740-1890 RPM

3rd gear
TCC engaged at 4230-4450 RPM
TCC disengaged at 4000-4200 RPM

at speeds in KMH
4th gear
disengaged 83.0-90KMH
engaged 90-97KMH

3rd gear
engaged 144-150KMH
disengaged 138-145KMH

all this is copied from official documents

also see lock up control from page 44, MV-3 Lock-Up Control http://www.bmwe34.net/E34main/Troubl...ch%20Guide.pdf

[whiskychaser]

The TC clutch works like a manual clutch - it makes a physical connection between the engine and trans. When the TC is locked up, the trans is not using the impellor, stator or turbine. So if it is still locked up when the car slows down, it will stall - just like a manual will.

[Annddrriy]

Yes excetly same like manual clutch. If not using and impeller than what oil pump doing just makes free spins ? If is car stop in manual transmission the clutch disengage by mechanical shifter friction disks and intermediate plate from engine flywheel but in automatic transmission when car stop and TCC clutch stuck on the engine will continue running with low RPM about 450-500 the TCC clutch stuck slipping into converter housing. Some another cars had the issue TCC clutch stuck on of faulty solenoid or TCU itself code number P0742.

[Annddrriy]

ZF4HP22 EH valve body lover front housing bore has a torque converter lock up valve #30 which could cause stuck inside or not right valve. MV2 solenoid housing shift torque converter clutch valve #86. It could be wiring which is in MV2 solenoid it should be in place of the lock up solenoid then MV2 solenoid would be always power on till last gear is shifted on and when last gear would shifted on then MV2 solenoid would be power off.

[Cactuar]

What are you trying to do Annddrriy?