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Thread: Transmission case sleeves, ZF 4HP22/24 EH valve body questions

  1. #51
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    why do you not contact ZF with the Stuecklistennummer of your transmission for the list, then you have 100% the correct details? All other things are just guessing, as it is too general in the general tech guides with the notes 'Some models only'.
    You have to get the details for your valve body based on Stuecklistennummer + then compare it with the work done = open the valve body and check it. What is the real Stuecklistennummer of your valve body?

    If the shop which did the valve body repair for you is a authorized ZF repair shop, he has access to the ZF online system and can print out the Stuecklistennummer, then he can compare it to the actual work done on your valve body.

    quote whiskychaser: Guessing is no good. To be certain, you need to get the details for your particular trans from ZF. Maybe confirm why you think the VB is responsible? Your supplier is certainly going to ask that question and you need to be able to rule out a clutch issue
    Last edited by shogun; 11-11-2021 at 01:33 AM.
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  2. #52
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    Can I put it valve body E7 version 8 pin to transmission 4hp22 E9 7 pins? Then I will add it one more wire to the TCU pin 20 for reverse solenoid ?
    Last edited by Annddrriy; 12-10-2023 at 12:43 PM. Reason: Reverse solenoid

  3. #53
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    I have no experience with that, that would be going back in development of the transmission. To me it looks as if you would get in more trouble. Probably one would have to change the valve body, the valve body harness and the transmission control module.
    Basically this backwards
    transplanting the electronics from one box to another http://bmwe32.masscom.net/johan/gear...rbox_swap.html

    why do you now ask ZF for the Stuecklistennummer of your existing transmission and then rebuilt that one based on the details from ZF?
    Shogun tricks and tips for the E32 series are HERE!

  4. #54
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    If is transmission case same as for E7 version it should work. The E9 version has 4hp24 and 4hp22 case and all E7 version 4hp22 case and 4hp24 case.
    Last edited by Annddrriy; 12-10-2023 at 12:47 PM. Reason: ZF4HP22/24EH

  5. #55
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    only the outer cast iron housing is the same on 4HP22 and 4HP24, but the rest is different, the E32 750 always had a ZF 4HP24 and the first E32 750 were delivered in Europe in July 1987 and the 4HP24 was a BMW 24001216722 4HP24-BU
    The 1st version, designated Early "E-7", has 5 solenoids on the valve body, was introduced in 1986 and used up thru 1989. This version includes a solenoid for reverse lockout.
    The 2nd version, designated Late "E-7", has 5 solenoids on the valve body, was introduced in 1988 and used up thru Mid-1989. This version includes a solenoid for reverse lockout.
    The 3rd version, designated "E-9", has 4 solenoids on the valve body, was introduced in Mid-1989 and used up thru 1994. This version uses a shift solenoid for the reverse lockout function.

    My 11/1988 750iL Japan version has still the old 4HP24 with the 8-pin plug , BMW 24001216722 ZF 4HP24-BU

    There are numerous changes between 4HP22 (used in for example E32 735) and 4HP24 (used on E32 750).

    First off

    - Springs with different rates are incorporated

    - the torque converter diameter is increased to 280 mm

    - the bearing surface of the torque converter is longer to take the stronger loads

    - the converter lockup clutch diameter is increased to 300mm

    - the transmission bell housing is larger due to the increased converter size

    - the A transfer plate is 15 mm wider in order to accept the larger a clutch

    -the stator wheel shaft is now mounted with 6 countersunk screws for a tighter connection with the transfer plate

    - a new pump body was designed for the longer converter shaft bearing

    - the splines on the input shaft are longer

    - both sealing rings on the input shaft are cast iron

    - the A clutch has a larger diameter and the clutch friction surfaces are increased in size also

    - the number of plates in the B,C and D clutches was increased by one inch each

    - the one way clutch for 2nd gear has been strenghtened and riveted together

    - the one-way clutch for 3rd gear was changed from a roller type to a locking body type for greater torque

    - the planetary gear for 4 is much stronger now with forged webs

    - the output shaft diameter is increased and 2 holes are provided for more lubrication

    - the output flange has a larger bolt circle to take more force
    -the pan is deeper

    - the filter is different for the deeper pan = longer neck

    - valve body plates gasket is different

    - Last but not least, remember that early E32 have tranies with 8 pins connector and the other ones with 7 pins. My 11/88 750 has 8 pins.

    As 4HP22 is also used in the Landrover V8 Defender, Range Rover Classic and the Disco 1 and these cars are usually handled very rough, there are special shops which enforce the 4HP22 with 4HP24 parts, here you can see the differences in the pics on the website of AshcroftTransmissions

    quote Heavy Duty ZF Autoboxes
    We are able to supply the ZF4HP22 with optional strength upgrades depending what you are doing with the vehicle, what gearing, what engine Etc.
    Stage 1 Upgrade
    We can build the 4HP22 but fit the centre section of the box with the bigger 4HP24 internals which upgrades one of the weak links being the C1/C2 one way clutch, the 24 one is much stronger,
    another part which gets upgrade is the Planetry Gearset, the solid 24 type being much stronger,
    Just the centre internals are changed so the box stays the same externally. This upgrade is an additional £250 on top of the normal rebuilt exchange price of £675 or £725, depending if the box is hydraulic or electronic.
    Stage 2 Upgrade
    The box can be built with both the 4HP24 internals as above but also the 24 front end as well giving you the added strength of having the larger 24 "A" clutch, also a weak point with larger engines.
    There are 2 fitting implications of doing this, the unit is 15mm longer and the oil cooler nipples are M18 x 1.5 thread, on the early 22"s these threads are M16 X 1.5, the later 22"s like the TD5"s are already M18. This upgrade is an additional £500 on top of the normal rebuilt exchange price of £675 or £725, depending if the box is hydraulic or electronic. Note the Stage 2 upgrade can be specified to accept the medium and the large type converter. We are often unable to offer the medium converter option due to availability problems but if you are considering the stage 2 upgrade then you are likely to want the large converter anyway for the reasons below.
    Torque Converter Upgrades
    The ZF auto as used in the LandRover vehicles uses three different diameters of torque converter. Small. Medium and Large.
    Small" is used on the 300 Tdi, P38 diesel and the TD5. "Medium" is used on the 3.9, 4.0 and the later 4.6 P38. "Large" is used on the early 4.6 P38"s. Note the large converter can only be used with the stage 2 as it will only fit the 4HP24 front end.
    A larger converter is desirable on a tuned engine for a few reasons :
    1) Lower stall speed, there's little point in having a nice torquey engine if the converter is not transferring the drive and you are revving straight past it. A larger converter will reduce these revs and allow you to take up drive earlier which results in much more relaxed driving. This is by far the biggest advantage of upgrading the converter. Note these reduced revs are not to be confused with lower gear shift points, these stay the same as they are determined by the autobox ECU programming.
    2) Less heat generation because of the lower stall speed and reduced 'slip'.
    3) The converter has a lock up clutch inside and the smaller one struggles to cope with a stock engine, never mind a tuned one. This clutch can slip as you accelerate when it should be staying locked. In a TD5 the stock converter is the small one. If you have a stock engine, stick with the stock converter. If the engine has a mild tune then we would recommend upgrading to the medium diameter one, we have sold quite a lot and get very good feedback.
    This option is an additional £240 when ordered with an autobox or £315 exchange + £ 200 refundable core charge when ordered alone.
    4.6+ V8's - We would recommend the stage 2 and the large converter with a 4.6 or more.
    To fit the large converter you will need the 4.6 boss and flexplate assy to match the bigger converter which we can supply .

    2.8 TGV to ZF
    We would recommend the stage 2 and the large converter with the 2.8 TGV, When using this setup be sure to order the correct conversion kit to suit the large converter. The part number for this kit from Motor and Diesel Engineering in the UK is Kit '82E'. See below for additional notes on the 2.8.
    TD5 ZF upgrades
    If you are converting your TD5 Defender to auto you have a few options, I though it may be useful to give some guidance based on our experience. Stock 90/110, fine with a stock 4HP22 Medium Tuned 90, stock ZF, uprated converter Medium Tuned 110, stage 1 ZF, uprated converter Fully Tuned 90, stage 1 ZF, uprated converter Fully Tuned 110, stage 2 ZF, uprated converter Tuned Challenge 90, stage 2 ZF, uprated converter
    2.8 International engine to ZF auto
    The easiest way to fit a ZF to the 2.8 is to treat it as a 300 Tdi and fit the corresponding autobox from the 300 Disco but as this has the smaller diameter torque converter I would not recommend this set up. For the strongest set up I would suggest purchasing the 2.8 adapter kit made to fit the engine to the early P38 V8 ZF thus allowing you to use the largest diameter torque converter as you are now using the V8 bellhousing and use this in conjunction with the "stage 2" 4HP24 described above. We are now able to supply these kits at £595 and the 4HP24 autoboxes rebuilt, outright at £1550.

    This means you now have the biggest converter which gives you the stronger lockup clutch, lower stall speed so it's not revving so much when you pull off (and thus less heat generation), with the 24 you have the stronger internals, this is the best box and converter setup and it can be run hydraulically but you are restricted to the shift points set by the box, to get the most out of the engine you can have this box built with electronic control and run it with the Compushift, this allows total control so you can make the vehicle drive perfectly.

    Technical Information / FAQ's
    A common problem with all ZF 4HP22/24 boxes is the failure of the one way "sprag" clutch. Once the cams in this one way sprag clutch "flip" the unit will slip both ways resulting in the vehicle only pulling off with the shifter in position "1" not "D" and driving OK when shifted up to position 2,3 and D until you stop then you need to pull it back to "1" to start off again. It is not feasible to change this unit in each rebuild as this one part is approx £400. By disassembling the "sealed unit" we were able to examine the profile of the cams and understand how they work, from here the challenge was to find another cam from another type of autobox that would fit and had the correct profile to make the unit stronger by not allowing the cams to flip. After quite a lot of searching we found one, "re-cammed" some of these clutches and thoroughly tested them, we have not had one fail since. This is an example of how we are able to use our engineering background to understand a problem and cost effectively make the unit stronger without having to raise our prices. We have also recently invested £20,000 in a "Hydra-Test" machine. This machine allows us to do 2 things. Firstly once the valve body has been rebuilt we are able to fit it to a plate on the test rig and run the valve body through its cycle with 45 deg pre-heated oil to simulate as close as we can get to "real world conditions" The hydraulic valve bodies are run through manually by winding a valve to simulate the governor increasing in speed and various pressure gauges are monitored to see that the valve body is applying the correct clutches at the correct pressures. When testing the electronic ZF valve bodies once the solenoids are all tested this cycling procedure can initially be run through manually to check all is well then the computer can run up to 100 full run cycles going from 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th and lock up down to 1st again to ensure no valve are sticking and the solenoids are not failing when hot and working hard. As part of the test proceedure we also fit a test plate to the autobox in place of the valve body and apply heated oil at pressure to check we have no leakage or pressure drop on any of the clutch packs.This machine has enabled us to improve the quality of our boxes by identifying any potential faults or problems before the box reaches the customer. unquote
    ================================================== ================================================== ===
    I repeat!
    You are making it more complicated and confusing and in the end nothing will work. REPAIR your own transmission, get from ZF the Stuecklistennummer and rebuilt the valve body as per ZF list.
    Or get a reman 4HP24 from for example europeantransmissions including a reman valve body, all updates included, tested, warranty, price abt $ 2150, a bit more than you paid for the valve body overhaul.
    When you order a new reman trans, tell them exactly all details on the existing trans tag such as stucklistennummer, serial no., type and I would also tell them the details on the stickers on the transmission control module, especially the Bosch sticker.
    $2150.00, Market price: $3650.00, you save $1500.00 41% less,BMW 4HP22 4 speed Automatic Transmission remanufactured transmission with OEM parts and the latest upgrades, what includes upgraded front pump and E drum with planet carrier, modified oil supply for rear section, to prevent overheating and more..... computer simulator tested valve body. In exchange with One year standard unlimited warranty ! core deposit is $ 750 and is NOT included in this price. E32 4 SP RWD 3.5L
    Last edited by shogun; 11-16-2021 at 10:35 PM.
    Shogun tricks and tips for the E32 series are HERE!

  6. #56
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    what is maximum slip plate fiber glass thiknes ? Yes I interested to upgrade torque converter could you ship me one torque converter stage 2 and flex plate and all friction disks for all gears. Could you give me quote for it ?
    Last edited by Annddrriy; 11-17-2021 at 07:58 AM.

  7. #57
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    I copied that and mentioned above that is offered by Ashcroft Transmissions, contact them in U.K. https://ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/
    quote from their website: "International Shipping. We ship worldwide, to every corner of the globe. Your shipping cost and shipping options will be generated on ordering."
    Shogun tricks and tips for the E32 series are HERE!

  8. #58
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    Ok thanks. Could you look at the valve body diagram of E7 version and E9 version line pressure solenoid housing retainers put it different slot. Which hole will be better to put ? E32 valve body post somebody hole of E7 version. This post retainer located if you look at but hard to see. https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...haul-in-detail if you put retainer by using E9 version diagram you can't put retainer there you have to pull the valve with spring by doing this you open channel.
    Last edited by Annddrriy; 11-18-2021 at 08:34 AM.

  9. #59
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    My reply again: if you want to be 100% sure, ask ZF for the Stucklistennummer details list for your car.
    If you do not want to ask ZF, then I would follow the instructions of ATSG Technical Service Information BMW, http://www.bmwe34.net/E34main/Troubl...ch%20Guide.pdf for E7 like shown for E7 and for E9 as shown for E9, I would not mix anything between the diagrams E7 and E9
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  10. #60
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    Yesterday asked Ashcroft transmission for medium torque converter they can not supply. Could you supply ?

  11. #61
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    No, I cannot supply. Actually such a medium torque converter is not needed for a BMW E32, they are for off road use for Landrover V8 Defender, Range Rover Classic and the Disco.
    In case you need a new torque converter for your E32, there are companies which remanufature them. For example https://europeantransmissions.com/zf...converter.html
    Shogun tricks and tips for the E32 series are HERE!

  12. #62
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    Ok thanks.

  13. #63
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    Which CLUTCH DAMPER PISTON has more pressure B or C ?

  14. #64
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    did you check spring illustrations, free lengths, spring diameters, wire diameters ? https://atsgmembers.com/memarea/bull...s/03/03-32.pdf
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  15. #65
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    Two of the clutch damper piston springs not matching to springs specifications. Damper piston spring "B'' and "C". SPRING ILLUSTRATION NO. 9: has a bigger wire diameter than SPRING ILLUSTRATION NO. 32: Also spring #19 which is pressure regulator valve spring so strong seems to me something went wrong ? Any help will be Thankful.
    Last edited by Annddrriy; 11-21-2021 at 02:18 PM.

  16. #66
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    #3 "C' " CLUTCH VALVE #30 TORQUE CONVERTER LOCK-UP VALVE and #46 PRESSURE REDUCING VALVE "1" and one more #60 PRESSURE REDUCING VALVE "2" All of them looks same but one is plastic and other 3 is metal. Where to put plastic valve ? Thanks in advance !
    Last edited by Annddrriy; 11-21-2021 at 02:26 PM.

  17. #67
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    quote: Today 04:11 AM Annddrriy: Two of the clutch damper piston springs not matching to springs specifications. Damper piston spring "B'' and "C". SPRING ILLUSTRATION NO. 9: has a bigger wire diameter than SPRING ILLUSTRATION NO. 32: Also spring #19 which is pressure regulator valve spring so strong seems to me something went wrong ? Any help will be Thankful.
    --------------------
    #3 "C' " CLUTCH VALVE #30 TORQUE CONVERTER LOCK-UP VALVE and #46 PRESSURE REDUCING VALVE "1" and one more #60 PRESSURE REDUCING VALVE "2" All of them looks same but one is plastic and other 3 is metal. Where to put plastic valve ? Thanks in advance ! by Annddrriy; Today at 04:25 AM. unquote

    You need the detailed Stucklistennummer from ZF. I repeat, contact ZF for the Stucklistennummer for exactly the transmission you have based on the details on the transmission tag. All is shown there. Example, here a Stucklistennummer for a 4HP24 and all is listed in detail, drawings

    Parts list Page 2 , Material number: 1043.030.041, 4 HP 24
    Pos....material no.....name..qty...technical info
    320 1043.327.045 COVER 1
    322 0736.101.066 TORX SCREW 3 M5X18 IN 0736 101 053(2)
    330 0736.101.063 TORX SCREW 1 M5X30 IN 0736 101 053(2)
    334 1043.323.017 BALL 1
    340 1043.323.184 VALVE ORIFICE 1 D=0,9 IN 1043 323 185(3)
    346 0301.323.095 VALVE ORIFICE 1 D=1,0 IN 1043 323 185(3)
    350 1043.328.032 VALVE HOUSING 1
    352 1043.327.052 GEAR SHIFT SLIDE 1
    354 0732.041.667 COMPRESSION SPRING 1
    360 1043.323.130 VALVE PISTON 1
    362 0732.041.819 COMPRESSION SPRING 1
    370 1043.327.051 PISTON 1
    372 0732.041.394 COMPRESSION SPRING 1
    380 1043.323.138 CLUTCH VALVE 1
    384 1043.323.112 STOP PLATE 1
    390 1024.323.202 SPRING CUP 1
    396 1024.323.070 CLUTCH DAMPER 1
    400 0732.041.524 COMPRESSION SPRING 1
    410 1043.326.245 DAMPER PISTON 1
    420 0732.041.574 COMPR SPRING 1
    440 1043.326.169 VALVE PISTON 1
    442 0732.042.552 COMPR SPRING 1
    450 1024.323.070 CLUTCH DAMPER 1
    460 0732.041.175 COMPRESSION SPRING 1
    470 0732.042.482 COMPR SPRING 1
    480 1043.326.021 VALVE 1
    482 0732.041.457 COMPRESSION SPRING 1
    490 1043.327.043 COVER 1
    492 0736.101.066 TORX SCREW 3 M5X18 IN 0736 101 053(2)
    496 0736.101.065 TORX SCREW 2 M5X22 IN 0736 101 053(2)
    500 1043.328.020 COVER 1
    502 0736.101.066 TORX SCREW 5 M5X18 IN 0736 101 053(2)
    510 1043.323.201 VALVE ORIFICE 1 D=1,4 IN 1043 323 185(3)
    520 0301.323.095 VALVE ORIFICE 1 D=1,0 IN 1043 323 185(3)
    Last edited by shogun; 11-21-2021 at 09:25 PM.
    Shogun tricks and tips for the E32 series are HERE!

  18. #68
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    What could cause a problem of valve body lover front if C clutch valve not moving enough of retainer put wrong slot ? C1 and C clutch not getting enough oil or always in pressure with oil ? Thanks in advance !

  19. #69
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    maybe stuck because surface of some parts is not smooth enough like shift valve. We usually check all moving parts very careful and polish them, if required
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  20. #70
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    I am talking about C clutch valve retainer seat in wrong place.
    Last edited by Annddrriy; 11-30-2021 at 05:14 AM.

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Annddrriy View Post
    I am taking about retainer seat in wrong place.
    Sorry, I cannot solve your problem, I do not know where the retainer is now, what the ZF instructions say based on an unknown to me Stucklistennummer, which I tell you since weeks to get it from ZF.
    In case you believe it is in the wrong position, put in in the correct position as per your opinion
    Last edited by shogun; 11-30-2021 at 05:27 AM.
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  22. #72
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    I'm going to send you two picture of the valve body lover front diagram from two books maybe some one has experience with that. One book shaws one thing and another book shaws another thing I'm talking about retainer for valve body C clutch shift solenoid. Both diagram is E 9 version valve body.

  23. #73
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    I send you two picture of the valve body lover front casting assembly diagram from two books maybe anyone has experience with that. One book shows one thing and another book shows another thing I'm talking about retainer for C shift valve. The retainer is in different place. This will prevent C shift valve from moving further.Screenshot_20211130-190447.png
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Annddrriy; 12-11-2023 at 12:02 AM. Reason: Add another picture

  24. #74
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    Contacted a friend who is specialized since > 10 years in valve body overhauls of mainly 4HP and 5HP, his reply: Both pictures of Annddrriy are correct.There are actually different positions of the retainer on the left lower side of your pictures, all pictures are correct, from actual experience they have 3 kind of positions: left, center, right, all are different from the general repair manual and individual based probably on Stucklistennummer. We have found on 4HP22/24 E9 4 solenoid -when disassembling- valve bodies the left lower side retainer in 3 different locations, we always keep it as it is original and never change that. The retainer is a kind of limit switch for moving of piston range, I think just pressure level control it, if the position is different, maybe not getting much serious problem.

    here you see it original in a ZF 4HP22EH transmission with E9 (7 pin, 4 solenoid) valve body, 1992 BMW E34 535i http://twrite.org/shogunnew/files/ja...Valvebody.html
    Last edited by shogun; 12-01-2021 at 01:29 AM.
    Shogun tricks and tips for the E32 series are HERE!

  25. #75
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    Thanks for reply.

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