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Thread: Transmission case sleeves, ZF 4HP22/24 EH valve body questions

  1. #226
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    Trying to fix a problem before the clutch A burn out fast and will get more problem. I have had burn out two clutches A in BMW 735i 1990 without knowing what was causing that problem. Burn out time was in less than 20.000 km. Torque convertor can work 200.000 km. The TCC clutch material wearing slowly because it shifts not often It is shift in last gear 4th gear only after 90km/h.
    After 90 km/h clutch has to be lock up to TCC converter housing. If TCC not lock the clutch after 90 km/h you won't have 4th gear ON.
    Last edited by Annddrriy; 12-19-2023 at 12:35 PM. Reason: Torque converter

  2. #227
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    Ok I see, sounds like a serious issue. Have you considered replacing the transmission?

    90,700 miles 1992 BMW 735iL Azure Blue Metallic with Silver Grey leather interior ‣My car ‣My YouTube channel

  3. #228
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    Same sound as before. Have you considered replacing the transmission in your bimmer without checking what causing that problem ? It could be anything inside the TCC maybe input shaft turbine seal has oil leaking to the back side of the pressure clutch plate and transffering fluid to make clutch locked all time. Could be valve body springs combination not set right. Could be output shaft sensor not working right.
    Last edited by Annddrriy; 12-20-2023 at 05:23 AM. Reason: Torque converter

  4. #229
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    Please check your attitude, Annddrriy. You have received a lot of help over here for your issue which suggests that it might be a complex problem within the transmission itself. The reason I suggested a transmission replacement is because it might be the most cost-effective solution without spending hours diagnosing the issue. Your attitude is very off-putting if I'm honest.

    90,700 miles 1992 BMW 735iL Azure Blue Metallic with Silver Grey leather interior ‣My car ‣My YouTube channel

  5. #230
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    My attitude is excellent I don't have to check I already know. This is free chatting forum you don't have to answer any of my questions if you don't want its up to you. We talking about common problems in BMW E32 model and we learn more if we interact between each other.
    Last edited by Annddrriy; 01-14-2022 at 04:23 PM.

  6. #231
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    DME/ECU code 54 converter clutch drive position switch. What I did check why code 54 every time stored in the engine ECU that when lock up solenoid is on. The engine ECU pin 54 supply 5 volts to the automatic transmission TCM pin 25 and when lock up solenoid is on then 12.8 volts is sent to the engine ECU pin 54. He’s the thing that why code 54 stored in the engine ECU because the engine ECU supply 5 volts to the automatic transmission TCM pin 25 plus 12.8 volts added by lock up solenoid when fourth gear is shifted on. Solution how to get rid of it code 54 from the engine ECU. What needs to do that the TPS wide open throttle wire number 5 and the ECU pin 53 need to unplug from the engine ECU or TPS.
    Last edited by Annddrriy; 12-20-2023 at 05:35 AM. Reason: Code 54 stored in DME

  7. #232
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    do you really get this code on your E32? Or do you believe you might get the code?
    This code is a generic trouble code, meaning it applies to all vehicles equipped with OBD-II system or vehicles made since 1996 up to present. Specifications on the definition, troubleshooting and repairs of course, vary from one make and/or model to another.
    The P0742 DTC means the torque convertor clutch is locked in direct-drive with the engine, so the vehicle will likely stall when you come to a stop, or let off the gas.
    Symptoms

    Symptoms of a P0742 include:

    Check engine light
    Erratic, delayed or harsh shifts
    Engine stalls when coming to a stop
    Transmission shudders/shakes when coming to a stop or accelerating
    Transmission gets stuck in a gear
    Vehicle won’t move when in gear
    Lower MPG
    Transmission overheats

    Causes

    Not enough transmission fluid
    Dirty transmission fluid / filter
    Damaged wiring/connector
    Malfunctioning torque convertor clutch solenoid / TCC solenoid
    Damaged torque convertor and/or clutch assembly
    Blocked pressure passage
    Valve body issue
    https://autoservicecosts.com/obd2-co...20be%20present.
    https://www.transmissionrepaircostguide.com/p0742/
    Last edited by shogun; 01-14-2022 at 05:22 PM.
    Shogun tricks and tips for the E32 series are HERE!

  8. #233
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    I am guessing and have a feeling it's locked to convertor housing. I watch you tube video how is torque convertor lock up clutch works. Some cars has different application lock up control. When fluid flow through input shaft it makes pressure on lock up clutch to unlock clutch. Another car opposite function when fluid flow through input shaft it makes pressure on lock up clutch to locked. I don't know what function has transmission zf4hp22eh TCC fluid inside or fluid outside to make lock and unlock clutch.
    Last edited by Annddrriy; 12-20-2023 at 05:41 AM. Reason: Clutch

  9. #234
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    This document should answer all the questions you have been asking, including the torque-converter lock-up clutch and the 'E' Economy Program (NOT emergency)!

    https://www.meeknet.co.uk/E38/BMW_Tr...damental_1.pdf

    From BMW:

    Shift Programs

    BMW EH transmissions have selectable shift programs (or modes) to suit driver needs andoperating conditions. There are 3 basic shift programs available:

    • Economy Program - The economy program is the default program which is adopted every time the vehicle is started. When in economy mode, the operating priority is for maximum economy and shift comfort. Shifts will take place at low engine RPM and road speed. The economy mode is indicated by an “A” on the program switch. The cluster will display an “E” to indicate economy mode.

    • Manual Mode (Winter Mode) - Manual mode is used to start out the vehicle in a higher gear on slippery surfaces when more traction is needed. A higher gear will reduce torque to the rear wheels. Manual mode can also be used to select a lower gear when needed such as when climbing a hill. Depending upon vehicle application an “M” will appear in the cluster when in Manual Mode or an asterisk ( * ) symbol will appear in the instrument cluster to indicate Winter Mode.

    • Sport Mode - Sport Mode provides raised shift points and a more aggressive shift program for the “Enthusiastic” BMW driver. The cluster will display an “S” when in sport mode.
    Last edited by Timm; 01-14-2022 at 05:55 PM.
    Timm..2007 E64 650i Individual Sport..1999 E31 840ci Individual Sport..ex owner of 2000 E38 740..1999 E38 740i V8 M62..1998 E38 735i V8..1993 E32 730i V8..1988 E28 518i


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  10. #235
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    ZF4HP22/24 type of torque convertor turbine with lock up clutch applied that time when ATF not flowing through the input shaft and when ATF released from the input shaft then torque converter lock up clutch is locked to the converter housing. Forward clutch A will always slip and burn in forward gears because the combination of the spring in the valve body pressure regulator valve spring is too soft then it makes a lot of pressure between impeller and turbine to force input shaft spin. An example with two fans facing each other when one fan spin it leads another fan to spin if is proper speed in the main fan.
    Last edited by Annddrriy; 12-20-2023 at 05:56 AM. Reason: TCC

  11. #236
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    usually torque converters for M30 and M70 last a long time, but you can send your torque converter to a repair shop for rebuilding with replacement of all wear parts.
    Here you can see it in detail https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTbXvtFlKpc

    if you really found P0742, although this applies to all vehicles equipped with OBD-II system or vehicles made since 1996 up to present = Causes
    Not enough transmission fluid = check it
    Dirty transmission fluid / filter = replace it
    Damaged wiring/connector = check/replace, check the plug and repair it, if oil is inside, this is for 5HP30, same applies for 4HP https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...-leak-glue-fix
    Malfunctioning torque convertor clutch solenoid / TCC solenoid = replace/repair
    Damaged torque convertor and/or clutch assembly = repair, see above
    Blocked pressure passage = clean valve body
    Valve body issue = replace valve body, or repair

    Now start with the actual work, theory is over, fix it
    Last edited by shogun; 01-14-2022 at 08:03 PM.
    Shogun tricks and tips for the E32 series are HERE!

  12. #237
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    The first thing what I want to do to check torque convertor realease pressure from stator and turbine connection input shaft housing. I found info for T/C release pressure at idle gear selector is set to position drive RPM750-850 must be 10-PSI if is more than that it's hydraulic pressure built up in the valve body.
    Last edited by Annddrriy; 12-20-2023 at 05:59 AM. Reason: TCC

  13. #238
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    E32 workshop manual mentions for checking hydraulic pressure values for automatic transmission
    for testing remove pertinent plugs
    1. pump pressure
    2. clutch A
    3. converter pressure
    install adapter for pressure testing tool
    Test....................position........gear...... ....speed (RPM)...................pressure in bar,psi
    pump pressure.........D.............1st............700-1000.......................6.0-7.5, 85-100psi
    pump pressure.........D.......2ns,3rd, 4th....approx 4000...................4.6-5.8, 65-82psi
    pump pressure.........R.........reverse.........700-1000.......................11-13, 157-185psi
    converter pressure....D.........4th...........converter locked.................max. 0.7 , 10psi
    Last edited by shogun; 01-14-2022 at 09:26 PM.
    Shogun tricks and tips for the E32 series are HERE!

  14. #239
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    I could not see E32 workshop manual mentions T/C release pressure has to be 10 PSI at idle speed RPM750-850. What they mention is line pressure 80-111 PSI at idle speed RPM750-800. Line pressure and TC pressure two different pressure.
    If
    converter pressure....D.........4th...........converter locked.................max. 0.7 unknown RPM ? Its low pressure torque convertor clutch locked that is tell us when pressure is released from input shaft from back side of the convertor housing than torque convertor clutch engaged. If is no pressure in TCC it always stay locked. To make unlock we need to put pressure inside input shaft somehow. Pressure regulator valve that is first step what has to be check if that valve stuck or moving very easy oil pressure go inside or not go inside input shaft to make changes for TCC clutch.
    Last edited by Annddrriy; 01-14-2022 at 09:58 PM.

  15. #240
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    here, see E31 online manual that shows you the values on page 24-00/2 , same in the E32 workshop manual http://www.mwrench.com/E31/en/repair/images/0289.jpg
    http://www.mwrench.com/E31/en/tdata/images/0075.jpg
    Last edited by shogun; 01-14-2022 at 09:51 PM.
    Shogun tricks and tips for the E32 series are HERE!

  16. #241
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    Oh thanks that is great info. I have service manual only and lots electrical troubleshooting information. This is big engine V12 M70 and transmission ZF4HP24 has a bit more pressure than ZF4HP22 small torque convertor M30 engine line six cylinder not big difference ATF pressure between those two transmissions. Bigger torque converter is in E-9 version of the automatic transmission it makes sense. Small torque converter is in E-7 version of the automatic transmission makes sense.
    Last edited by Annddrriy; 12-20-2023 at 06:05 AM. Reason: TCC

  17. #242
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    I gave you already the pressure data for the E32 . See post 243, 245. There is no difference between. Read careful what I mention, I said the E32 M30B30 and M30B35 and M70 pressure data for the 4HP22/24 are the same based on E32 workshop manual. And for the E31 850 with M70 with 4HP24 they are the same as for the E32.
    32 workshop manual mentions for checking hydraulic pressure values for automatic transmission
    for testing remove pertinent plugs
    1. pump pressure
    2. clutch A
    3. converter pressure
    install adapter for pressure testing tool
    Test....................position........gear...... ....speed (RPM)...................pressure in bar,psi
    pump pressure.........D.............1st............700-1000.......................6.0-7.5, 85-100psi
    pump pressure.........D.......2nd,3rd, 4th....approx 4000...................4.6-5.8, 65-82psi
    pump pressure.........R.........reverse.........700-1000.......................11-13, 157-185psi
    converter pressure....D.........4th...........converter locked.................max. 0.7 , 10psi
    Last edited by shogun; 01-15-2022 at 12:32 AM.
    Shogun tricks and tips for the E32 series are HERE!

  18. #243
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    Ok thank you ! Tomorrow will go to buy two more gauges I have one only with PSI 300. Going to install 3 gauges one for line pressure another for T/C pressure and one more for A clutch. Pressure diagnostic manual show beside convertor pressure plug there is clutch C1 nothing about this pressure how much pressure should be at this plug one manual shows this is clutch A and another manual shows this is clutch C1. Thanks in advance if you know what pressure at clutch A or clutch C1 probably this is same thing.
    4FLT5_AS01.jpg
    This is vaccuume gauge is good to check vacuum. I send by mistake I thoght this is hydraulic gauge. Another one is hydraulic.
    300 PSI Glycerin-Filled Pressure Gauge. Will be running my bimmer with gauge on it. Next transmission service will be easy for any mechanic to check oil presure in TC and Line presure.
    71k7mxRbFtL._AC_SL1500_.jpg
    Last edited by Annddrriy; 12-20-2023 at 06:09 AM. Reason: Gauge

  19. #244
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    42966 (1).jpgZF4HP22EH Torque convertors how it works. This type has clutch to unlock when oil go inside through input shaft to make clutch disengaged from rear cover of the convertor housing.
    Last edited by Annddrriy; 01-17-2022 at 05:32 PM.

  20. #245
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    Torque converter release pressure at male plug has to be enough around 80psi to release clutch in TC. If pressure around 10psi clutch isn't release. If pressure above 80psi and still clutch not released that is torque converter seals leaking internal there is two seals inside torque converter to address the issue TC itself has to be repaired.

  21. #246
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    Torque converter release pressure at male plug has to be enough around 80psi to release clutch in TC. If pressure around 10psi clutch isn't release. If pressure above 80psi and still clutch not released that is torque converter seals leaking internal there is two seals inside torque converter to address the issue TC itself has to be repaired and installed fluororbonseal style and redial lip seal.
    Last edited by Annddrriy; 10-23-2023 at 01:46 AM. Reason: Seal

  22. #247
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    Removed torque convertor outside of the car for inspection turbine spins freely there is no oil inside no pressure inside the clutch not engaged to rear cover of convertor housing. Torque convertor clutch should be engaged when no pressure inside. This type of torque convertor lock up clutch engaged when oil releasing from input shaft and make a pressure around 10 PSI to engage the clutch to the convertor housing.
    Last edited by Annddrriy; 12-20-2023 at 06:15 AM. Reason: TCC

  23. #248
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    The TC is never cpl. empty, even if you try to drain it, there is still ATF inside, maybe half full. I have 2 used torque converters in my stock, 1 from 4HP22, the other from 4HP24. I tried with with my bare hand to turn it, TC in vertical and horizontal position, could not move anything. Whether it depends on the power to turn or whatever, it is just guessing. Maybe you ask a professional shop what is correct.
    Anyway, the TC locking can only be achieved at higher engine speeds, the torque converter clutch must be disengaged at low engine speeds to prevent stalling. 4HP22/24 EH: These transmissions use an on/off control method to lock and unlock the torque converter. The Torque Converter Clutch is either completely engaged or disengaged.

    It is IMPOSSIBLE that the TCC is locked all time. the torque converter clutch must be disengaged at low engine speeds to prevent stalling
    Torque Converter Clutch
    ....a torque converter clutch was added on EH controlled transmissions. The torque converter clutch locks the turbine to the converter housing... This can only be achieved at higher engine speeds, the torque converter clutch must be disengaged at low engine speeds to prevent stalling. 4HP22/24 EH transmissions use an on/off control method to lock and unlock the torque converter. The Torque Converter Clutch is either completely engaged or disengaged. This method of engagement provides an abrupt sensation when the TCC is locking and unlocking.
    Last edited by shogun; 01-19-2022 at 03:20 AM.
    Shogun tricks and tips for the E32 series are HERE!

  24. #249
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    Yes I try same you did it to turn with bare hand in vertical position it turns freely but in horizontal not turning is sticking to back side of convertor housing. I will let you know what is going on inside of torque convertor ones of my freind will cut it to half a part I will check properly how it works. It should has inside some pressure springs for apply and release clutch.

  25. #250
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    I don't think this type of the torque converter has clutch disengage ever its always engaged if manual says at low pressure 10psi clutch engaged but if no pressure inside torque converter clutch not engaged the torque converter always has pressure when gear selector is set to position D. The thing is how can be disengage clutch through input shaft when oil flow and make oil pressure to the back side of the converter housing and pushing clutch piston to stator side this is all about pressure regulator solenoid how it adjusting pressure for input shaft. Some car's has check ball inside input shaft and some other type of torque converter lock up clutch has springs on turbine side against converter housing. Oil can flow a bit through top side of turbine in torque convertor.
    Last edited by Annddrriy; 01-18-2022 at 05:10 PM.

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