Can oil pan be removed with trans off w/o dropping subframe - 97 e36 318i m44

[steurdd]

I'm planning on removing the transmission for a swap and I'd like to replace the oil pan gasket (and rear main seal) while I'm in there. From everywhere I've read I have to support the engine from above and drop the subframe to get the oil pan off, however, do I still have to do this with the transmission off? Can I tilt the rear of the oil pan down to clear the oil pickup and then slide it back towards the rear of the car. I'll still be supporting the engine from above since I believe it will tend to tilt forward w/o the transmission on.

Thanks!

[spyderg0d]

The trans bolts to the pan. You won't be able to get the oil pan to seal right to the rear main seal without removing the trans.

[importbanana]

he is removing the trans.

[spyderg0d]

Oh. I see that now. Lol.

Answer is no. Either raise the engine or lower the subframe.

[importbanana]

The trans bolts to the pan. You won't be able to get the oil pan to seal right to the rear main seal without removing the trans.

If i remember correctly, the oil pan gasket is pushed up towards the lower flat surface of the rear main seal carrier. Really necessary to remove the trans for the oil pan gasket?

[brianc]

If i remember correctly, the oil pan gasket is pushed up towards the lower flat surface of the rear main seal carrier. Really necessary to remove the trans for the oil pan gasket?

This is correct - at least for the 5 speed manual. The oil pan mounts to the block and the bottom edge of the rear main seal carrier. You should be able to remove the oil pan and w/o removing transmission. Obviously if both the transmission and subframe are removed be careful and use a proper engine lift or combination of engine support and supports on the engine mount brackets from below or the engine will fall out.

[steurdd]

This is correct - at least for the 5 speed manual. The oil pan mounts to the block and the bottom edge of the rear main seal carrier. You should be able to remove the oil pan and w/o removing transmission. Obviously if both the transmission and subframe are removed be careful and use a proper engine lift or combination of engine support and supports on the engine mount brackets from below or the engine will fall out.

Right, in this case I'll be removing the transmission anyway for a manual swap. My goal is to be able to replace the oil pan gasket without dropping the subframe. It seems like the main reason why the subframe needs to be removed per the bentley manual is because if I don't drop the subframe and just drop the rear of the pan down to try to clear the oil pickup, the back of the pan will hit and get stuck on the transmission bellhousing. So that's why the subframe would need to be removed because you can't tilt the oil pan, you have to drop it straight down. However my question is if the transmission is already off, I could I keep the subframe intact and tilt the rear of the pan down to clear the oil pickup, then could I remove the pan completely by sliding it to the rear of the car where the transmission used to be?

[steurdd]

After looking at some pics on the internet, it looks like the oil pickup doesn't extend from the oil pump into the oil pan. There's a ring of gasket on the top left of the pan that looks like it seals the oil pickup tube to the oil pump. So I shouldn't have to tilt the rear of the pan at all, I could just unbolt it and then slide it rearward. Unless someone can think of a reason why it couldn't work.

http://www.318ti.org/forum/showthread.php?t=42486
Oil pan.jpg

[importbanana]

Probably no other way than trying.

Make sure to take pics and post them here. Sounds interesting.

Never done it, but if it's just a bit that's missing you could loosen one of the subframe bolts per side, turn them back in until they get a good grab, then loosen the remaining two bolts to lower the subframe onto the loosened bolts. Don't know if that works or if i forgot about something, but maybe worth a try if you're missing just a tiny bit of space to remove the pan. Don't know if the steering shaft can extend the lenght you'd be dropping the subframe, so do at your own risk.

[steurdd]

Probably no other way than trying.

Make sure to take pics and post them here. Sounds interesting.

Never done it, but if it's just a bit that's missing you could loosen one of the subframe bolts per side, turn them back in until they get a good grab, then loosen the remaining two bolts to lower the subframe onto the loosened bolts. Don't know if that works or if i forgot about something, but maybe worth a try if you're missing just a tiny bit of space to remove the pan. Don't know if the steering shaft can extend the lenght you'd be dropping the subframe, so do at your own risk.

Yeah I think you're right, ha. That's a good idea, never thought of that.

One other problem that could come up is if something in the engine sticks out below the mating surface of the pan. It looks like the crankshaft counterweights do, so I'll probably have to crank the engine over by hand to clear each one. Then there's the square tooth gear for the crank sensor at the rear, but I can tilt the rear of the pan down to clear that. Looks like the crank bearing caps are flush, but I haven't been able to find a good side profile picture anywhere. Hopefully that half inch of space between the bottom of the pan and the subframe will give me enough room.

http://stevesescaperoute.blogspot.co...engine-in.html
P1020061s.jpg

https://www.bmw2002faq.com/forums/to...-pan-and-pump/
SAM_2760_zps71f23828.jpg.34b7ae1cc5817174e8b11d2b1629e217.jpg

It'll be about a month before I do this, but yeah I'll post a bunch of pictures. Thanks for your help!

[spyderg0d]

Ohhhhh. I missed the 4 cylinder part. ...

[brianc]

Oh I missed that too. I was looking at mine and was thinking no way in hell the oil pan slides back over the oil pump w/o lowering the subframe. The M42 is a whole different story I have no experience with.