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Thread: LTW wing drag

  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2013
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    1995 BMW M3/2/6

    LTW wing drag

    Hey all, just figured I'd share some info about the LTW wing and how much drag it creates. I absolutely love the function and style of this wing but I wanted to remove it to see if my draggy times would change from 60-130mph.

    Prior to removing the wing I was achieving an 11.51 60-130 run, this was my best I achieved over about 10 runs. When I removed the wing I was able to get down to a 10.59 60-130. I know this isn't anything scientific or anything but it clearly shows the wing causes some good drag. furthermore the draggy records 60-70, 60-80 etc up to 60-130. My 60-90 times were the same with and without the wing but the 90-130 is where I shaved the second or so.

    I did my testing during the same weather conditions in March California sea level.

    Engine; 433whp and 352wtq. Supercharged stage 2 Rotrex setup on 14psi.
    Drivetrain; E46 M3 trans, 3.64 gearing LSD, 245/40/17 square tires, JB Racing flywheel, stock E46 M3 clutch.
    Aerodynamics; car is lowered, not slammed(can see top of wheels from side angle), LTW style front lip (not the oem version but it's sturdy), Fancywide rear diffuser v2, LTW wing with risers of course, JT design under-panel, rest of body is stock.

    Just wanted to share this.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
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    93' Turbo 325i Coupe
    Good to know and good testing. As you mention, not scientific but it's good to know the wing makes a difference, I assume even though it slows down a drag oriented car at high speeds in a straight line, it must provide good downforce for cars going through high speed turns

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
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    Charlotte
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    2012 GTI
    For a visual reference I will add the below videos. Both cars are prepped for SCCA Time Trials Tuner category, but my car has LTW aero (splitter and wing) and Brian's car does not. Both cars have similar power mods but my car has aftermarket headers instead of stock and I think that's the only major difference, and the cars should be very similar in weight. Suspension/wheel/tire/brake setups are wildly different so overall performance isn't 1:1, but a pull down the straight in two almost equal cars is a reasonable way to compare the effects of the LTW stuff.

    My car, start at 0:27 just before the last curb on the left. Starting speed: 79mph vMax: 114



    Brian's car, start at 2:54 just before the last curb on the left. Starting speed: 72mph vMax:113

    97 M3 - SCCA TT Prepped
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  4. #4
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    1995 BMW M3/2/6
    I can difinitley feel a difference with the wing on vs off going around turns and such. Even less "scientific" but one time with the wing off I came flying around a turn on our local mountain roads and almost lost it when the back end came swinging out. Same turn I take all the time but normally with the wing on. I can't explain it but you can just feel the difference driving with and without it.

    Those track videos are pretty good proof as well, coming out of a turn 7mph slower and ending up at the same speed for the entry on a car with similar if not less power is good enough proof for me.

  5. #5
    NeilM is offline Member BMW E36 M3 Expert
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    If you want a good representation of the LTW wing's effect, watch one in the rain — the poor man's wind tunnel! The rooster tail is quite impressive.

    Neil

  6. #6
    Join Date
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    ATL
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    '91 325i
    Totally believe everything here. Mine averages to about 2 mpg at 90mph on a road trip, which is pretty significant. The car also started to understeer at any turn over 70mph, front LTW splitter fixed that.

    And my friend who has an M52 E30 can stay with me on back straight of Road Atlanta as long as he is in my draft, falls waaaay back as soon as he is out of the draft. I think it is pretty inefficient when it comes to drag-to-lift ratio.
    Harrison Motorsports
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    Daytona M3

  7. #7
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    I'd be really curious to see results with authentic GT wings vs the replicas. Real wings are reinforced with a metal rod that spans the top. They hold their shape at speed where the reps do not (most reps flutter too). Attack angles also differ with the risers (real vs rep) and the shape of the wing overall.

  8. #8
    NeilM is offline Member BMW E36 M3 Expert
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    Quote Originally Posted by Braymond141 View Post
    I'd be really curious to see results with authentic GT wings vs the replicas. Real wings are reinforced with a metal rod that spans the top. They hold their shape at speed where the reps do not (most reps flutter too). Attack angles also differ with the risers (real vs rep) and the shape of the wing overall.
    No detailed measurements taken, but my rep (made by Lester in Italy) is visually consistent with the trunk kit wings on a couple of LTWs I'm familiar with (other than lacking a CHMSL). My wing has some flex — if you push down fairly hard, maybe 20-25 lbs, right in the middle it deflects about 1 cm — but fortunately it doesn't flutter when driving.

    It does do a highly effective rear view mirror blocking job right at the "Hello officer" distance though.

    Neil

  9. #9
    Join Date
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    2001 750il Chrome line
    Just added this without the risers, AM $300. Now the front gets really light over 100mph so I guess the splitter is a must. I was hoping that big LS would keep the front down.
    IMG_20220520_170708.jpgIMG_20220521_162246.jpg
    01' 750il Chromeline
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  10. #10
    Join Date
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    F90 M5; E36 M3 Turbo
    Years ago - maybe around 2007-2009, a member named Dave Villanova with an M3 and Vortech supercharger (lower compression, 60 lb tune, 500 rwhp SAE Dynojet) did some quarter mile testing and picked up a couple of mph after removing the higher rise wing. I forget the ET and trap but think they were high 11 or low 12 at around 122.

  11. #11
    Join Date
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    E30 M3 Touring Car #10
    Years ago an back to back test on an E30M3 with the Evo3 flap all the way up, all the way down, and no wing at all was done at NHMS IIRC.

    Top speeds were highest with no wing, but the car was reportedly frightfully twitchy to drive.
    The E3 flap all the way up was much slower on the straights - 4-5 mph IIRC - but the lap time was faster , consistently.
    Stock position was in the middle.

    So testing is important, and every track is different. What works at Lime Rock will not work well at Road America.
    2010 BMW Club Racing E30 M3 Touring Car Champion, 2011 and 2013 SCCA National Championship Runoffs 3rd Place, STU, 2011 SCCA Jim Fitzgerald Rookie of the Year, 2012 SCCA Northeast Division STU Champion, 2015 SCCA Runoffs Pole Position Daytona/STU

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