New Member - Looking to purchase 2000 z3 m

[andersmf]

Hello, looking to purchase my first z3. I am looking at 2000 z3 m with 86,000 miles. It appears to be all stock from what I can tell and according to the owner. What do you guys think about these spot welds?
Thanks, Michael
https://share.icloud.com/photos/0EZw...PeamjOKWd9NcOg
https://share.icloud.com/photos/0Q9T...DBi4g0y2N9xYbA

[Master Crash]

Looks like they were touched up at some point. One of them appears to be original and it has been stressed, probably will fail in time.

If you are going to inspect the car, then simply looking in the trunk will not do. Try to take it to a garage and get it on a lift.

in order to properly inspect the subframe, you need to have a look at some of the welds that are hidden by the trunk carpeting. Also, from underneath, try to inspect the large frame rail that moves across from left to right, onto which the differential lobe is mounted.

[BUCK57]

To get a good look you'll need to drop the mufflers and heat shields to see it all. If the spot welds in the trunk look anything but perfect, you'll need closer inspection. The truck welds, if they look discolored then they are very likely separated beneath the sealant and paint you see inside the truck. That's why you'll need to remove the mufflers and heat shied to see the underside to know the actual condition.

[ProductUser]

Here's a pic for reference. BTW - I have the same make\model; you do not have to remove the heat shields or muffler.

crack.png

[yinzerinmass]

That's how mine looked when I had it repaired. When the seam seal was scraped away there were a couple more drivers side that had come undone. I opted to get mine fixed right away so I could use the car as I intended.

Definitely not a catastrophe, good position for bargaining to look at it on a positive note. For the right price, don't walk away from it for that.

[Master Crash]

As noted by ProductUser, the heat shields do not have to come out to see the area. Arguably, it helps a lot to remove the mufflers, etc, but you can get a close enough look just by putting the car on a lift and craning your neck. To truly inspect the area and give it the "fine tooth comb" treatment, then yes, the mufflers need to be removed to make room. Make sure to bring a flashlight if you are going to be doing anything like that. If you see evidence of spot welds coming loose or starting to pop then it is safe to assume that there is additional damage that is covered by the rubberized paint covering the underside of the car, particularly on the corner of the trunk floor on the driver's side. One of the spot welds in your photos does look like it is starting to fail/pull away from its mate.

Because the car you're looking at already has 1) at least one spot weld that is compromised, and 2) evidence of someone welding/modifying it in the past, then it is reasonable to assume that the subframe had an issue at some point, and the current/previous owner decided to intervene to prevent escalation of the issue.

Without further intervention you can expect to see the issue continue to progress. Of course, it depends on how hard you are driving the car, but the short answer is that something needs to be done. Simply reinforcing the existing spot welds is not a cure for the issue, additional pieces of steel must be grafted into the area to truly bolster it against failure. The Randy Forbes kit is a go-to for this issue, particularly for those who are not experienced/knowledgeable/comfortable with fabricating and welding things of that nature by themselves.

However, I think for the mileage on the car, if everything else looks good then it would still be a good idea to buy it. You must be prepared to invest a little bit to get the issue resolved, though. You can probably get them to lower the price by using this information.

[andersmf]

Thanks for all the responses so far. At the moment I am just looking for a Sunday driver, get on it here and there especially through the S turns in the mountains where we live, and go to some local car shows. Don't plan on taking it to the track. Below is a link to the car for sale. I did go and look at it, spot welds did not look discolored and they don't look like they have any breaks in them, a quick look underneath did not see anything obvious, but I was laying on my back. It has a new clutch, new flywheel, and new tires.

https://www.glclassiccars.com/detail...mw-z3/70010778

[rasmuw]

The only other issue I saw is the droopy glove box. That’s a typical issue. A positive is that the shifter surround is not cracked around the switches. The dealer claims the door handles are chrome. The interior pulls are, but the pictures of the car reveal the outer handles are stock black.

In my opinion, the price is too high by at least $4K. If the cooling system hasn’t been addressed, you’ll spend at least $500 if you do it yourself. The Forbes subframe reinforcement is usually $3K+ unless you do it yourself.

[Mr Bingley]

Thanks for all the responses so far. At the moment I am just looking for a Sunday driver, get on it here and there especially through the S turns in the mountains where we live, and go to some local car shows. Don't plan on taking it to the track. Below is a link to the car for sale. I did go and look at it, spot welds did not look discolored and they don't look like they have any breaks in them, a quick look underneath did not see anything obvious, but I was laying on my back. It has a new clutch, new flywheel, and new tires.

https://www.glclassiccars.com/detail...mw-z3/70010778

Do you feel adequately informed about the trunk floor/differential mount/rear cross-member issue, how to prevent it, how to diagnose it, and how to address it if and when it appears? Do you have any questions about how much it costs to address the issue, or the likelihood that you will have to at some point? If the answer is that you have done your homework and feel fully informed, and have taken the potential risk you will have to address this into account in your thinking, then you will not be disappointed, a least on that account. If you have additional questions, ask them before reaching any conclusions.

[sydjai]

For the same money and a few more miles, this one might be a better deal:

http://www.mroadsterbuyersguide.com/...istingID=22301


No affiliation. Just sharing a link. This one has the Forbes kit and also some other maintenance. Probably still be worth it to do the coolant system.

You would have to drive a little further home, but that’s half the fun!! I drove mine home with a buddy last November, San Jose, CA to Nebraska, about 27hrs. We did it in 2-1/2 days.

[andersmf]

Well, I moved on from this z3, tried to get them to come down on the price so I can get the Randy Forbes kit installed. They would not budge, felt car was over priced needing that fix. They told me that I did not know what I was talking about, and that the welds had no issues.

Thanks for all the info and advice.

[Master Crash]

I bought my M roadster 3-4 years ago, paid $13,750 -- it had fewers miles, came with a hardtop, and also installed with a strong strut and a few other little accoutrements.

My point being here that the car you were looking at was overpriced. Dealerships are not interested in moving cars unless they can profit. Which means that you will always pay more than what the car is actually worth if you go through a dealer. Hence the epithet "stealership."

For a car like the one you are trying to find, your best bet is going to be through a private seller. There is nothing wrong with buying a car off of Craigslist, you simply need to be knowledgeable enough to make a safe, smart purchase. Private sellers are not trying to make money off of their cars -- they're trying to get rid of them because they don't want/need them anymore. The whole purpose of the sale is different in that case, and it puts you in a more favorable position as a buyer. Private sellers are often willing to haggle on the price as well.

EDIT: I am seeing from your profile information that you live in NY, yes? Finding cars in the northeast is exceptionally difficult because they rot. I used to live in NY and it was always a challenge to find nice, older cars. I once had to drive 5 hours just to look at an old Jeep that didn't have holes in it. Depending on how far you want to travel, you may have an easier time finding a car in the south and then having it delivered, or flying down to pick it up.

I realize that a suggestion like that can seem pretty absurd, but I just figured I'd put it out there.

[Master Crash]

Here is a good example:

https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/l-Used...ting=293769257

Car is in Denver, BUT a private seller who's done some work to the subframe as well as a few other nice things to keep it fresh and modify its performance.

And he wants ~$1000 more than what that dealership was asking for. He would probably come down a few hundred if you were persistent.

If you are scrupulous and patient, a good car will come your way.

[s8ilver]

That car is right in the ballpark:
http://www.mroadsterbuyersguide.com/price-vs-mileage

[andersmf]

Here is a good example:

https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/l-Used...ting=293769257

Car is in Denver, BUT a private seller who's done some work to the subframe as well as a few other nice things to keep it fresh and modify its performance.

And he wants ~$1000 more than what that dealership was asking for. He would probably come down a few hundred if you were persistent.

If you are scrupulous and patient, a good car will come your way.

I actually contacted this person earlier in the day, car looks to be in great shape from the pics. I got a couple estimates about $1100 to have it shipped. I have bought cars out of state before, but they were close to drive and look at buy face to face. I just can’t get out to Denver, has anyone bought one site unseen and how do you do the paper work?

[Master Crash]

I can't help you with that, sorry.... but maybe a good samaritan from the site can go have a look at it for you. I've seen it happen before.