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Thread: strut mount rubber sunken in over time causing grinding when steering?

  1. #1
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    strut mount rubber sunken in over time causing grinding when steering?

    Hi all,

    Replaced both front strut mounts 3 years ago. Recently with a person in the passenger seat, after a 30 miles drive, I heard a grinding noise when steering while standing still. Later I was alone in the car and the noise was gone. It also didn't happen again with a passenger in the passenger seat when I was trying to figure out where it came from.

    Anyone ever heard of the strut mounts rubber being too weak and allowing the upper spring hat to touch the underside of the strut bearing? I can't verify by feeling or seeing it, I'd need to actually take out the struts to see if it touched. It's the only thing I can think of. But I can't quite believe this could be the case, I mean the old strut mounts were 20 years old and they didn't sink in that much to allow the spring hat to touch.

    I used a decent brand, correct part.

    Anyone ever heard of this? Or an idea what else it could've been?
    Last edited by importbanana; 03-07-2021 at 01:27 AM.

  2. #2
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    What did you install? Oem strut hats or after market.

    Usually if you get spring squeak from strut hats, it's because the bearing isn't greased, a crap bearing in the first place, the slip washer in between the strut mount and the spring hat wasn't put in properly or at all.

    I have flat front pillow ball camber plates, after 2 years 1 of them still binds alittle once in a while. I think its just a inevitable consequence of getting cheap parts.

  3. #3
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    All original parts.

    The bearing is greased and moving freely. It would be the spring hat touching the underside of the strut mount because the thick rubber part has sunken in over time.

    These are pictures i found in another thread where someone wrote about it:

    The first three pics show the bad one, and the last one shows an old original part. Mine sits a bit lower than his bad one but I can't quite believe that this is possible because this would affect many people, but apparently it matches my problem since mine only rubbed with a passenger:


    https://ibb.co/Fs8bSG6
    https://ibb.co/SQTHHTC
    https://ibb.co/yhffGSK
    https://ibb.co/3WZzpfB

    I can't believe this is possible. It would need to be known amongst e36 owners. I used Febi Bilstein strut mounts. Not sure if that's a known brand to you US guys. But it's a decent brand, but who knows where they get their stuff from.

    Anyone ever experienced that?
    Last edited by importbanana; 03-07-2021 at 04:38 PM.

  4. #4
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    So... I thought I had changed all the rubber parts in my '99 10ish years ago when I first got it... In the fall I was just browsing the Turner e36 parts (as one does LOL) and realized that I hadn't done the steering guibo (also known as rag joint or steering coupler). It seemed fine... Looked ok no actual steering problem. But I changed it based on "rubber from 1999 has to be deteriorated..." It was a good call! Out of the car it was obviously squishy and the steering feel became fantastic.

    Not saying it is necessarily that part but there are a LOT of bushings made of rubber in that car.

  5. #5
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    They definitely should have lasted more than 3 years. And usually they get hard and brittle, not just let go. It's very strange, but apperently not never heard of.

  6. #6
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    I just can't believe it. Replaced them not even 3 years ago and now I'd have to do it all again with another brand strut mount. It's so strange.
    Last edited by importbanana; 03-07-2021 at 06:18 PM.

  7. #7
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    I seen rears mounts fail but not the fronts. There is more metal structure in the front.


  8. #8
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    I've digged into this topic and here's what I found out.

    The "old style" strut mounts look like this:



    These are what e36 originally came with from the factory. Apparently around 2004 or something BMW decided to stop making strut mounts specifically for the e36. If you go to the dealer today and ask for an e36 strut mount from BMW, you'll be sold this:



    These are the "universal" strut mounts BMW decided to use for the e36 since 2004. They're originally from the e46 I think. I think they're used in many more models now.

    However, the problem is that these new style strut mounts will make your front sit about half an inch higher than the original style ones.

    I realized it all when I saw that there's only aftermarket brands today that sell these old style ones, and BMW doesn't anymore. I must've gotten a bad part then.

    So since there's no original BMW old style strut mounts anymore, and I refuse to get the new style ones because of the height difference, all I can do is get a more expensive old style strut mount and hope that the rubber will be of better quality.

    I'm looking at other brands old style strut mounts now, hoping their strut mount will be of better quality.

    But it could also be possible that there's only one factory somewhere in China making these mounts, as with many products where there isn't that much demand, and the brands just put it in a box with their name on it. Then I'd have the same problem again in the future.
    Last edited by importbanana; 03-10-2021 at 05:13 PM.

  9. #9
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    Last summer I ordered factory strut mounts for wife's 03 325i and received a regular part. /same as e36 except with a locating dowel. Before that, I had installed an e36 in its place for the while needed. I had no height change between either of them. From what I've seen, they should be the same with o height change.

  10. #10
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    I'm now seeing that not all e36 came with the same strut mounts. Fcp and others list not all e36 models and z3/z4 into the 2000's. Maybe that's the one that I used. Usually my parts cars or the sort are obd1, so it would make sense.

  11. #11
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    If I'm not mistaken, m3 strut mounts can be used as a more durable upgrade. Might affect your alignment settings though.

    Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

  12. #12
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    I ordered replacement struts, strut mounts, and rear shocks for my '99 323i (all KYB), got all the parts from Rock Auto. On the original order, I was sent a wrong front strut, and the strut mounts didn't match. So I returned them for credit, reordered, and got the correct ones the second time around. The KYB strut mounts (SM5255) that I got look exactly like what you're picturing as "original" ones.

    1998 BMW 323I 2.5L L6 Strut Mount | RockAuto
    Last edited by krab03; 03-09-2021 at 07:38 PM.
    Robert
    1999 323i E36 convertible (black, black top, tan interior)
    Newport News, VA

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by krab03 View Post
    The KYB strut mounts (SM5255) that I got look exactly like what you're picturing as "original" ones.
    That's what I'm saying. Aftermarket brands still produce this "original" design, but BMW itself doesn't. They will sell you the new style ones. So if I have quality problems with one of the aftermarket brands I can't get a BMW part because they don't make them anymore.


    Quote Originally Posted by XnWarden View Post
    If I'm not mistaken, m3 strut mounts can be used as a more durable upgrade. Might affect your alignment settings though.
    Not an option, changes caster as far as I know.


    Quote Originally Posted by spyderg0d View Post
    Last summer I ordered factory strut mounts for wife's 03 325i and received a regular part. /same as e36 except with a locating dowel. Before that, I had installed an e36 in its place for the while needed. I had no height change between either of them. From what I've seen, they should be the same with o height change.
    You're mixing up things. 03 would mean it was an e46. Regular part in that regard means e46 aluminium strut mount (second picture). Not same as e36 ones. They're aluminium and weigh about half. Also different rubber design.

    I was at my local parts guy today and had him bring me one of the new style ones and i brought one "old design" strut mount and I had them laying on the table, there's about half an inch in height difference. The "new style" ones have a much thicker rubber part.
    Last edited by importbanana; 03-09-2021 at 11:12 PM.

  14. #14
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    to follow up on this:

    See post #8 to refresh your memory

    I've now installed the "new style" or "e46 style" aluminium strut mounts, since the other ones only cause problems. The car is now about half three quarters of an inch higher than with the "old style" ones.

    I don't like that.

    The way I see it, the only "old style" ones which have decent rubber quality, are the ones BMW put on the car originally. So I'm now looking for original factory BMW "old style" strut mounts. Even if that means I have to install old used mounts.

    It's either that, or living with the taller "new style" mounts, making your car sit higher in the front.
    Last edited by importbanana; 06-27-2021 at 12:05 PM.

  15. #15
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    I see the newer E36 version have the updated design but you may be able to buy the old version. (it looks to be for an E30)
    New Sachs factory location may be more of a problem... or a change in design not made in Germany anymore
    Since BMW does not make them but places there part number on OEM suppliers parts you may be able to by the manufacture version. .


    https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...nt-31331092885

    https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...em-31331139452

    https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...nt-31336779613


    Here is a quote...

    R A on Tue, Feb 18 at 09:49AM

    Lemforder Strut Mounts -taller than OE

    I have now replaced my shock mounts on two e36s and have used Sachs and Lemforder aftermarket mounts. Both times I used Bilstein HD shocks and factory BMW sport springs. The first time I used Sachs mounts, which fit well. However, I was surprised to see front ride height of my car had gone up 0.5 inches. This time I got these mounts and compared them to the OE mounts. The bottom part of the mount is a different form factor and it appears as though the mount is 0.25-0.5 inches taller than the OE equipment. Again, when I got everything back together, my ride height increased by 0.5". I'm beginning to suspect these mounts, though the stiffer Bilstein dampers with a MUCH longer piston may also be to blame.
    Last edited by gc325is; 07-03-2021 at 02:17 PM.

  16. #16
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    Sorry to bump an old thread but yes, I've been using E36 31336779613 top mounts on my Mini using custom plates, two years and they've sagged enough to slightly bind on the top spring perch when nearing full lock. With some evidence of the inner metal cup beginning to part from the rubber at the top. These are either Sachs, Meyle or Febi. I cannot confirm right now as came as a part of a camber kit.


    I have also been eyeing up E30 31331139452. The design looks less forgiving but I would imagine would also be less prone to sagging.


    Did anybody try them and has anybody managed to measure the height difference? Looks to me to be about 10-15mm difference. Which my adapter plates already have me up 10mm in ride height compared to stock so I'm hoping the E30 mounts may actually put me back to my original ride height, just wanted to make sure they won't sit me too low is all.


    Another thing I noticed is the top nut on the E36 type is an M14 while the E30 type are M14? My original R53 uses M12 so I'm hoping this won't be an issue. Any input please gang?

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by importbanana View Post
    I've digged into this topic and here's what I found out.

    The "old style" strut mounts look like this:



    These are what e36 originally came with from the factory. Apparently around 2004 or something BMW decided to stop making strut mounts specifically for the e36. If you go to the dealer today and ask for an e36 strut mount from BMW, you'll be sold this:



    These are the "universal" strut mounts BMW decided to use for the e36 since 2004. They're originally from the e46 I think. I think they're used in many more models now.

    However, the problem is that these new style strut mounts will make your front sit about half an inch higher than the original style ones.

    I realized it all when I saw that there's only aftermarket brands today that sell these old style ones, and BMW doesn't anymore. I must've gotten a bad part then.

    So since there's no original BMW old style strut mounts anymore, and I refuse to get the new style ones because of the height difference, all I can do is get a more expensive old style strut mount and hope that the rubber will be of better quality.

    I'm looking at other brands old style strut mounts now, hoping their strut mount will be of better quality.

    But it could also be possible that there's only one factory somewhere in China making these mounts, as with many products where there isn't that much demand, and the brands just put it in a box with their name on it. Then I'd have the same problem again in the future.
    They are E46 style, E46 mounts are taller but to look at are a similar design yes.

    About the old design, it's confusing because you will find aftermarket making the old look design but covering the up to date part number. Now the old E36's have their own part number but I'm led to believe they have taller pass through, ie the pass through section of the shocks on older E36's is taller (allegedly- pre 91?).

    Has anybody toyed about with these since?

  18. #18
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    strut mount rubber sunken in over time causing grinding when steering?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wod View Post
    Now the old E36's have their own part number but I'm led to believe they have taller pass through, ie the pass through section of the shocks on older E36's is taller (allegedly- pre 91?).

    Has anybody toyed about with these since?
    The early Guide Supports/strut mounts
    Pre ~06/92 incorporated the upper spring perch into the Guide Support.
    These appear to support a different configuration spring as well - 31331139436

    Last edited by bluptgm3; 06-11-2023 at 02:46 PM.

  19. #19
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    Rodger that, so the current 31336779613 E36/Z4 from brands which have an older appearance such as Corteco 80001284 (I think FAG also) could still be an option for me since they would surely be the same as they don't have the perch incorporated. They just look like they'd be less likely to sag, the ones which look awfully similar to E30 mounts. I visited an E30 guy today but he didn't have any on shelf for me to measure up. I know the triple stud pattern is similar with only one fixing needing rework (not a problem as I've got plates I can drill). I know they've got a 14mm ID also, just not sure about the height difference.

    Hopefully if I order E36 Corteco or FAG brand (old look) then they'll have the same height as the current 31336779613. It's a tough one, been spending some time today browsing with not many findings

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluptgm3 View Post
    The early Guide Supports/strut mounts
    Pre ~06/92 incorporated the upper spring perch into the Guide Support.
    I do not believe the strut had any additional length.
    Thanks for the reply, see here https://www.motortraders.net/posts/1...on-differences

    However I realise its of no significance now, what I'm looking at is the "old appearance" E36 mounts such as FAG 814003110 or Corteco 80001284. These are black and appear like the E30 ones do. Just trying to find out if the height is identical to current E36/Z4 31336779613?

    E30 31331139452 looks like they may even be ever soo slightly shorter height than the E36 originals and revised, obviously the three stud pattern is ever soo slightly different so would need a redrill on one of the studs maybe a couple of them. It's hard to get clear cut info so digging myself to hell here ��
    Last edited by Wod; 06-11-2023 at 01:07 PM.

  21. #21
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    strut mount rubber sunken in over time causing grinding when steering?

    Quote Originally Posted by XnWarden View Post
    If I'm not mistaken, m3 strut mounts can be used as a more durable upgrade. Might affect your alignment settings though.

    Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
    Yah, I tried the 1996+M3 Guide Supports/strut mounts on my son’s 328 and I got interference of the upper spring perch on the strut tower due to the aft and outboard offset geometry in those mounts.
    The 1995M3 Guide Supports might well work as the are only offset aft.

    1996+M3 left (left side GS). 1995M3 right.



    1996+M3 Guide Supports swapped L-R, R-L

    Last edited by bluptgm3; 06-11-2023 at 03:32 PM.

  22. #22
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    strut mount rubber sunken in over time causing grinding when steering?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wod View Post
    Thanks for the reply, see here https://www.motortraders.net/posts/1...on-differences

    However I realise its of no significance now, what I'm looking at is the "old appearance" E36 mounts such as FAG 814003110 or Corteco 80001284. These are black and appear like the E30 ones do. Just trying to find out if the height is identical to current E36/Z4 31336779613?
    I believe these Corteco Strut Mounts are what you are looking for p/n 31336779613.
    Correct is supposedly an OE/OEM supplier.
    Last edited by bluptgm3; 06-11-2023 at 07:09 PM.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluptgm3 View Post
    I believe these Corteco Strut Mounts are what you are looking for p/n 31336779613
    ���� I reckon I'll take a shot with these and see how they fair on the beaten roads, I just like how the top point becomes tighter, hoping it will better fend of the sagging better. Would you reckon to go with Corteco over the FAG brand, there's also SKF? And these certainly wouldn't raise the ride height over the later looking silver Z4 era ones?
    Last edited by Wod; 06-11-2023 at 06:24 PM.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by krab03 View Post
    I ordered replacement struts, strut mounts, and rear shocks for my '99 323i (all KYB), got all the parts from Rock Auto. On the original order, I was sent a wrong front strut, and the strut mounts didn't match. So I returned them for credit, reordered, and got the correct ones the second time around. The KYB strut mounts (SM5255) that I got look exactly like what you're picturing as "original" ones.

    1998 BMW 323I 2.5L L6 Strut Mount | RockAuto
    As I recall KYB offers a sealed bearing. OE was an open bearing.

  25. #25
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    Now the weather has cooled I can think straight, to potentially expand on this thread. I've come to one assumption, that is if you've gained around 15mm and it so happens that the E46 mounts "fit" then maybe you got E46 mounts.

    I'll assume they don't fit, in which case it may seen (atleast visually) that the height may have crept up at some point after the 2002 era revisions although if so it's by an inconsiderable amount. Talking by maybe 2.5mm, perhaps. Otherwise, additional may have been from wear and tear droop as mentioned already. Maybe there was more stack height gain along the way but it seems there's not much data going further back than 2002 era. Here are my notes, I'm on my phone so can't upload photos too well but do check them out and see what you guys think to it all. Either way I would say the 2002 revision was last of the most sturdy design (I assume they're the same as the latest E30 mount but with the correct fixing pattern to body for E36 and mates). I assume the 2005 revision is a balance between the current design and original design, with potentially some very insignificant height step up as mentioned.

    31336779613 (2007 Current revision)
    31336769585 (2005 E86 revision)
    -Corteco 80001284 (aluminium-black)
    -FAG 814003110
    -SKF VKDC 35802 T
    31336759871 (2002 E85 revision)
    -Corteco 21653086 (cast steel-black)

    Update: Alright, Bilstein sell 31336769585 (12-116829) and their item is "febi GERMANY" marked which implies that it's actually made by them still (as opposed to them reboxing generic cheap rubbish as they often do these days). I dont know the in's and out's of it all but customer service confirmed that what I see is what I will get. Waiting for feedback from SKF, to see if their item is Germanic. Just to note I checked and chatted via UK website, so probably best to ask for confirmation also within your region. Will edit update as information comes in (y). SKF 35802 looks very high quality, assuming the stock image is correct. Also ill be ordering the E30 35801 which comes with FAG sealed bearing (Looks like it may work with a re-drill), again looks very OEM-like otherwise. Ie the rubber markings and appearance. Trouble is with Lemforder group, seems to be varied stock. Ive seen some stock carrying BM###X codes, previously Ive found all these parts to be inferior, so something else to watch out for potentially. Once I get them both I will measure up the stack height and comment about the quality. Sick of getting done over by some brands.
    Last edited by Wod; 06-30-2023 at 07:37 AM.

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