Suspension options, suggestions, discussion

[blckstrm]

Thanks for the photos. I think yours is still too high in the rear. But I know that is subjective. Good point about strut clearance. Apex only mentions KW being an issue, but I'm sure if the others have a similar dimension, they would too. Also, Apex says your wheel would need a spacer regardless. Was thinking of the 8.5s but I like the concave face of the 9s. I don't mind spacers, rolling/pulling fenders. But I DON"T was some goofy high camber sheit.

The 17x9.5 et 35 need a spacer in the front. My 17x9 et 30 do not.

I love the concave face. You have to work the fenders to make them fit, but it's worth it.

I have the big 15mm pad AND the original 5mm pad up top - it's obviously lower without all that. I feel like the front is too high, and the rear is just a touch low, which is why I tried to bring the rear up. But hey, that's why we all get to choose what we run!

[h82crash]

8" rear, what's with that? I think stock should be more like 6 1/2 - 7.

Right? Kinda supports my dung beetle description.

[jvit27]

Just went out and measured. 5 1/2" front, 8" rear. So, it appears the Eibach Pro Kit springs will get me the 4 3/4" in front. Have to work out the rear.

Something is wrong. Either you have the wrong springs in, or the car is jacked up on the ebrake...

[h82crash]

Something is wrong. Either you have the wrong springs in, or the car is jacked up on the ebrake...

Well, it's quite possible. I measured it in the dirt of my barn, which most likely is not flat, but it did not look like the end of the tape was in a hole. I do however think it looks like many others on the road that look factory. And a 2 1/2" difference seems reasonable based on the raked appearance of others in photos and on the road. Nothing scientific about my guess, though.

This one is just about how mine sits. Gonna say about a 2" difference.

02-car.jpg

[jvit27]

Well, it's quite possible. I measured it in the dirt of my barn, which most likely is not flat, but it did not look like the end of the tape was in a hole. I do however think it looks like many others on the road that look factory. And a 2 1/2" difference seems reasonable based on the raked appearance of others in photos and on the road. Nothing scientific about my guess, though.

This one is just about how mine sits. Gonna say about a 2" difference.

02-car.jpg

95's also had more rake in their geometry than 96+ FYI.

[SIIDEWAYS]

Looks like for the appropriate caster and adjustable camber it's either Voshlag or Ground Control. About the same price. If reduced caster doesn't bother you, then there are all the cheap alternatives. Here are some mid-priced with proper caster I found. Also, couldn't they shim your spindles to get the camber you want?

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-irp-_-individual-racing-parts/adjustable-camber-caster-plates-for-standart-springs/irpe36accp-2~irp/

That link you provided seems to be an adjustable camber kit for stock vehicles, i.e. stock springs, which mine is not so I don't think this would work for me.

[jvit27]

That link you provided seems to be an adjustable camber kit for stock vehicles, i.e. stock springs, which mine is not so I don't think this would work for me.

You have stock style springs (H&R).

Would not recommend anyways as these look like they would increase stack height and raise your car by .5" or more. You want the Sport camber plates from Ground Control; set and forget with a poly bushing so nothing to make noise over time.

https://groundcontrolstore.com/colle...nt=35606728003

[h82crash]

You have stock style springs (H&R).

Would not recommend anyways as these look like they would increase stack height and raise your car by .5" or more. You want the Sport camber plates from Ground Control; set and forget with a poly bushing so nothing to make noise over time.

https://groundcontrolstore.com/colle...nt=35606728003

Exactly, for factory strut setup. But, I don't think those IRPs are any thicker than the factory strut mounts. Those GCs look like they are as thick as the IRPs, but they do provide more caster.

Factory is pretty thick.

open-uri20150129-7853-1xuyr4c.jpg

[jvit27]

Exactly, for factory strut setup. But, I don't think those IRPs are any thicker than the factory strut mounts. Those GCs look like they are as thick as the IRPs, but they do provide more caster.

Factory is pretty thick.

open-uri20150129-7853-1xuyr4c.jpg

My mistake, I was looking at the first pic of those IRP upside-down as if they added on to the stock hats like Dinan. Not liking the decreased surface area or load path through the heim joint on those. They will absolutely introduce significant NVH.

The GC's are the same stack height as factory hats. I've had them for the better part of a decade now and have been flawless. Unless your miles are >50% track, there's no need to get a race plate. And if you're that serious, you'll get the Vorshlags anyways.

[h82crash]

Not liking the decreased surface area or load path through the heim joint on those. They will absolutely introduce significant NVH.

Agree. This opens another point. How much NVH will come through the strut? With most of the coil-over mounts not being isolated, would those also introduce more NVH?

[jvit27]

Agree. This opens another point. How much NVH will come through the strut? With most of the coil-over mounts not being isolated, would those also introduce more NVH?

If you get the GC Sport plates like I recommended, no additional/perceptible NVH as it is isolated. It's the best of both worlds for street cars.

With race mounts you will feel a noticeable NVH that is further magnified into the chassis depending on how stiff of a spring you end up running.

[h82crash]

If you get the GC Sport plates like I recommended, no additional/perceptible NVH as it is isolated. It's the best of both worlds for street cars.

With race mounts you will feel a noticeable NVH that is further magnified into the chassis depending on how stiff of a spring you end up running.

TKS, sound advice.

Anyone with coil-overs want to comment on NVH? I guess if you're all poly bushings and mounts, you might not notice any additional from the struts.

[jvit27]

TKS, sound advice.

Anyone with coil-overs want to comment on NVH? I guess if you're all poly bushings and mounts, you might not notice any additional from the struts.

Coilovers won't cause NVH per se - it's what you attach them with.

Some setups with short race springs in front may coilbind at low speeds or come unseated in driveways though. Be more specific on which kit?

[h82crash]

Coilovers won't cause NVH per se - it's what you attach them with.

Some setups with short race springs in front may coilbind at low speeds or come unseated in driveways though. Be more specific on which kit?

No specifics, they all look like they have just a heim or pillow bearing in the strut mount. No isolation=NVH if were going by the logic above.

[jvit27]

No specifics, they all look like they have just a heim or pillow bearing in the strut mount. No isolation=NVH if were going by the logic above.

Then you're probably looking at the cheap shit..

Most of the better brand name stuff is a la carte; either designed to be used with stock hats (Bilstein, KW) or uses 2.5"/60mm springs that don't come with camber plates.

[h82crash]

Then you're probably looking at the cheap shit..

Most of the better brand name stuff is a la carte; either designed to be used with stock hats (Bilstein, KW) or uses 2.5"/60mm springs that don't come with camber plates.

Yeah, I've read about plenty of disappointment on KW. Have to go to V3 to before it's decent. Opinions in other communities put the V1 on par with Megan and Godspeed. Been reading everywhere. Getting brand opinions in every community from Miatas to WRX, to Mustang to, EVO, I could go on, just to get a universal feel for quality and functionality. They may have no idea what's good.

ISC is on sale. Getting harder to resist. I don't want to pull the trigger until I've tried my Pro Kit/Koni setup.

I'll probably keep looking at cheap shit, most people rave about them and they offer adjustability for less than $8k.

[cypher448]

Very pleased with my V1s, then again haven't had them for more than a couple days

https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...s-shocks/page2

[propcar]

KW is a very good quality kit. BMW used KW for the M3 and M4 GTS. They have in-house shaker rig, have a ton of data/development, and are an OEM supplier.

I wouldn't categorize KW with Megan or Godspeed. That said, they have different levels of features. Really depends on what you want out of it and your budget. If you have the budget for V3 and want to fiddle with settings, that's a great road suspension that is also plenty capable for track.

Bargain for the money now that I look into it, is ST XTA. It's basically a KW V2 (without the inox stainless steel body) but has what are likely the same camber plates that come with KW Clubsport. Even comes with new sway bar end links. And a 5 year warranty, all for $1350.00


https://www.ecstuning.com/b-suspensi...ng/18220812kt/

And I didn't know they had this for E36 M3 now, this was just released a few months ago. But, ST XTA+ is available. Which is actually above the KW V3 in terms of damping adjustability as it's a 3-way. All for $2460 for a full kit. I'd be curious what spring rates it comes with. This has to be the cheapest quality 3-way damper for E36. I'm not a suspension engineer nor does this paint a full picture of how well they're tuned, nor does everyone need 3-way adjustability as that's alot to mess with, but may be good? These are KW engineered... I can't imagine they're garbage.

Edit: spring rates are 400lb/in front, 685lb/in rear. *note ST says they have a 200lb tolerance range to go up. ST will sell different springs at about $80 a spring.

https://www.bimmerworld.com/Suspensi...ng-E36-M3.html



KW Engineering: Exclusive for ST suspension
The high-quality ST XTA plus 3 coilover is based on the twin-tube damping principle of low friction combined with pressure-resistant damper housings. Manufactured directly at KW, a mono block guide and seal package reduces the friction of the damper as well as protecting it against corrosion and dirt. Each galvanized strut is sealed multiple times to ensure maximum longevity in ALL weather conditions.

- Latest damping technology for maximum longevity
- Reduced system friction for effective damping adjustment
- Individual lowering within the tested adjustment range
- Front and rear axle (when possible) with thread adjustment
- Galvanized coilover struts with additional coating for an optimized corrosion protection
- Complete solution with adjustable spring plate, race spring system and bumpers with dust protection
- Aluminium adjustable uniball top mounts (when possible)
- Scaled camber adjustment (optionally also caster), when possible
- 3-way adjustable dampers:
18 clicks low speed rebound damping
24 clicks low speed compression damping
24 clicks high speed compression damping

[h82crash]

Very pleased with my V1s, then again haven't had them for more than a couple days

https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...s-shocks/page2

That's good. I'm sure they all work well, some better than others. Not a big fan of it needing a tender spring on the front. PSS( has it also. At least the KW look like it has a long enough rear spring to remain captive during full droop. With other kits I wonder how you keep the springs from falling out if you can't limit the travel of the suspension or adjust the shock length, like the TC Kline. https://www.tcklineracing.com/Displa..._DA_KIT_21.jpg

It may not be a concern but I don't have them in my hands to check which is the purpose of this thread.

Interesting thread, Cypher. I have thought about getting the L/R 96 up strut mounts to add to my Eibach pro kit setup to play with camber. If you swap them left to right, it will increase camber.

Propcar, yes I'm sure they're better than Megan. Those XTA+ look good, 3 way damping is pretty awesome at that price, but still have the tender springs. This increases the spring length and might interfere with future wheel choices. Using preload to adjust ride height is probably ok on these street cars especially if the damping is linear. But my experience with my long travel Fox Podium 2.5s, doing that puts the shock in a different range of valving. To this, I admit I am probably over-thinking it.

I'll have to take another look at Jordan's videos. He got the XTAs and Arc-8s on his car and they seem to work together. He said he had interference with even the factory wheels.

[RBNetEngr]

KW is a very good quality kit. BMW used KW for the M3 and M4 GTS. They have in-house shaker rig, have a ton of data/development, and are an OEM supplier.
...
Edit: spring rates are 400lb/in front, 685lb/in rear. *note ST says they have a 200lb tolerance range to go up. ST will sell different springs at about $80 a spring.

I contacted ST on two different occasions to ask questions about these XTA Plus 3 coilovers, and both times they checked and verified that the rear springs are progressive, and 479 lb/in., not 685 lb/in. If you wanted to increase the rear spring rate, they do not sell other progressive spring options, but you could swap them out with linear rate springs (on your own), as long as you stick to the 200 lb/in range limit (centered around 479lb/in for the rear).

Also, in the News announcement for these, it mentions that the ST “Build Your Own” program is applicable to these. The program lets you choose a different color for the springs, and also the option to add a personal text string (letters only - no numbers) as a label on the springs. It also mentions that they will add the ability to choose custom spring rates in the future, but not for now.

ST builds these to order, and has no stock in the USA, so it would take several weeks after ordering for them to be built in Germany and shipped to the USA.

I like the fact that ST/KW build products specific for BMW, and test each system they sell to make sure it works as planned. I am strongly considering these for my ‘95 M3.


-rb

[propcar]

it seems as if we're getting conflicting reports on the spring rates and the available options. ST's site includes a page where you can order different spring rates and they told me that they would allow choice of rate for the additional cost of the springs.

That said, I don't work for ST, so if someone's really interested... talk to them

[h82crash]

I really would like to play with some decent coilovers, but I'll wait. The 325is is almost thawed out, the snow is down to the door handles. Still concerned about wheel clearance.

[h82crash]

I got the M3 out and into a flat parking lot. Front distance is still 5 1/2" and rear is 7 1/4". 1 3/4" rake. If my Eibach springs drop the front 3/4", I'll need to drop the rear about 2".