E39 N62 Swap

[BimmerBreaker]

Has anyone swapped an N62 into an E39?

Based on how closely the E60 and E39 are built, the N62 should in theory fit well in an E39 chassis and likely allow you to maintain the stock steering rack; instead of compromising with a steering box like the M62/S62

I will likely be pursuing this in the near future but was wondering if anyone has dabbled with this in the meantime. I've seen the S85 swap and N62 fitment is similar, a little easier if anything

[Jaaap]

The N62 is not a very reliable engine (compared to the M62).

[seagreen323i]

Have you ever owned an n62 car? The eccentric shafts gets filed down for the valvetronic and stops functioning correctly, valve stem seal issues, you name it its got it. Getting the electronics to work together would be a nightmare. We had a 550i and at 120k miles the motor was kaput. Valve stem seals leaked, eccentric shafts filed down, and alternator gasket shot out dumping the oil on the highway. Only used castrol synthetic changed the 9 quarts of oil it takes every 7500k miles as opposed to the 15k factory reccomend. It was powerful and had a good power band, just be prepared for all of that stuff. This was a TU version of the motor and it was "supposed" to fix all the issues I stated above. Bah I hate them, but I'm excited to see what comes of this.

I'm really playing devil's advocate here in all honestly. The m62tu has its issues and we all know them, but the intermediate leavers/eccentric shaft issue puts that thing in the **** it bucket for me.

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[hakentt]

you in AZ? Just think of the end result. N62 is not that good.

[BimmerBreaker]

The N62 is not a very reliable engine (compared to the M62).

The N62 will run forever burning and leaking oil, the M62 will eat timing chain guides and bonk it's timing, resulting in a non-running engine. S62 is probably the most reliable of the 3, but it's also more expensive by a huge margin. I paid $1400 shipped for my N62B44 with 6 speed trans.

I like the N62, I have one in my 206,000 mile X5 and I am swapping one into my Z3 currently. I am very familiar with the N62 and will be addressing the valve stem seals, coolant transfer pipe and alternator oil gasket before it is installed; at which rate the N62 should be pretty well taken care of. I am just looking to see if anyone has done any test fitting or attempted such a swap before.

The N62 in my Z3 ran for the first time yesterday, still a long way to go, but my eventual goal was to N62 4.8/6 speed auto swap an E39 wagon.


- - - Updated - - -

Have you ever owned an n62 car? The eccentric shafts gets filed down for the valvetronic and stops functioning correctly, valve stem seal issues, you name it its got it. Getting the electronics to work together would be a nightmare. We had a 550i and at 120k miles the motor was kaput. Valve stem seals leaked, eccentric shafts filed down, and alternator gasket shot out dumping the oil on the highway. Only used castrol synthetic changed the 9 quarts of oil it takes every 7500k miles as opposed to the 15k factory reccomend. It was powerful and had a good power band, just be prepared for all of that stuff. This was a TU version of the motor and it was "supposed" to fix all the issues I stated above. Bah I hate them, but I'm excited to see what comes of this.

I'm really playing devil's advocate here in all honestly. The m62tu has its issues and we all know them, but the intermediate leavers/eccentric shaft issue puts that thing in the **** it bucket for me.

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I don't really care what people think of the N62 reliability I know the engine well, and if I can make the N62 with valvetronic DME work in my Z3 aligned to stock EWS, I don't think getting it to work in an E39 - which is almost the same electronically as an E53 which came with N62 - can be any harder...

The N62TU or N62/2 as it is sometimes internally referred, didn't fix any of the valve stem seal issues. Modern BMW V8's still have valve stem seal issues in fact. They mostly did things for emissions improvements, deleting SAP valves for instance.

you in AZ? Just think of the end result. N62 is not that good.

Yes, I am in AZ

I like the N62 and it'd be a hell of a lot more fun than a steering box and S62 imo.

[seagreen323i]

Well there seems to be no convincing you not to taint an e39 lol. Are you going with a 4.8 or a 4.4? The oil pan on a 4.8 is a bit deeper and that may cause fitment issues.
If we wanna play the mileage game my m62 has 192k miles with the stock timing chain so.
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[BimmerBreaker]

I don't think that is true regarding the oil pan depths. Upper and lower oil pans are the same part number for 545i and 550i. 11137589687 & 11137574532

I will most likely be using a 4.8 and 6 speed auto for the E39 build. I have a parts car 4.8is X5 right now and I was originally planning on putting that 4.8 in the Z3 as its mocked up with a 4.4 now, but now I am thinking the 4.4 powerband will pair better to the Z3 and the torquier 4.8 will find a better home in a heavier E39

Good news is for your V8 purists, at least I'll be "tainting" an I6 variant once the time comes...

I will need to re-read the E39 S85 swap thread, but as I recall, he didn't struggle too much with subframe stuff and that subframe fitment will be roughly the same for the N62

[BimmrMeUpSnotty]

Pssst, Seagreen, BimmerBreaker has dabbled, fixed, and broken way more BMW’s than you will ever dream about. I’d bet my left nut, he uses an M62tu block as a pillow when he sleeps at night, and dreams about shoving S85’s into E30x drives just to see if he can grenade the drivetrain apart.

[seagreen323i]

I'm just having fun, read a tech article that said the 4.8 oil pan was moved down 16mm. I respect the man, could probably teach me a thing or two.
But if we think of it, both motors fit into an x5. Realistically they should both fit in an e39. The i6 bay is much more roomy without the box in the way. Saw some madman try and put n62 headers on a m62, they interference against the steering box, so if the headers bolt to the heads, you could bet the cylinder heads are about the same length. That shouldn't be an issue, if you did some measuring i would be more then happy do to some on my end. I have both a 530 and 540 to do this with.


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[BimmerBreaker]

I believe that means the oil pan baffle was lowered, so the crank doesn't hit it - not that the pan itself is deeper. Either that or the deeper pan superseded the more shallow pan which means they are compatible fitment-wise on the same subframe anyways, so it's no cause of concern for me in any case.

Critically, the subframe was the same part # from beginning to end of production - so even if the oil pan changed, it is still compatible with the subframe. The S85 V10 swap, if I am reading it right, just bolted the E60 subframe into the E39. If so, that would make physical fitment pretty straightforward, and electronics-wise, I am confident in my ability to wire the N62 into an E39. There are certainly less questions with this swap than there were with the Z3 swap.

I was just hoping someone else had experimented a little bit and may be able to shed some light before I got started, but seems I'll be paving the way on my own when the time comes.

Pssst, Seagreen, BimmerBreaker has dabbled, fixed, and broken way more BMW’s than you will ever dream about. I’d bet my left nut, he uses an M62tu block as a pillow when he sleeps at night, and dreams about shoving S85’s into E30x drives just to see if he can grenade the drivetrain apart.

I mean I've definitely dabbled with a bimmer or two...

[seagreen323i]

Ok so on the m62tu the distance from my engines centerline to the widest part of my cylinder head is about 16 inches with around 5 inches of clearance to the frame rail. Length from water pump pulley to rear water manifold is around 30 inches. No clue if that helps but there it is. Looks like to me the n62 cylinder heads would be a pain to fit so maybe those numbers will help you.

The m62 cylinder heads neck down in size alot faster then the n62 does. You might have a clearance issue there.
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[BimmerBreaker]

Dude I have to notch my Z3 framerail to fit the N62 alternator lol

I have some parts cars E39 and E60's at my shop Ill take some measurements from later today

[seagreen323i]

Dude I have to notch my Z3 framerail to fit the N62 alternator lol

I have some parts cars E39 and E60's at my shop Ill take some measurements from later today

Fair lol, good luck and keep us posted. Wanna see where this goes.

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[BimmerBreaker]

So I think one thing you aren't accounting for, which is actually pretty visible in that picture if you are looking for it, is that the height of the heads themselves on the N62 are much shorter than the M62. They go a little wider, earlier, yes - but - the overall height is much shorter. Look at how recessed into the head the exhaust cam sits, especially compared to the M62, which basically has them sitting on the very top of the head... notably, look at the height from where the head meets the block up to the very top of the heads - the N62 is shorter. The valvetronic stuff adds a little more height but only in the center, over the intake cam

E39 frame rail



E60 frame rail



Seeing as how the engines are installed from below at the factory, I don't see any reason to not expect an N62 to physically fit in an E39 (other than some things like cabin air filter intakes or similar, which are pretty trivial)

It really seems overall the N62 into an I6 E39 is, at least physical fitment-wise, not a total nightmare. I would say I'm a little surprised it hasn't been attempted before, but I think the earlier responses succinctly summarize the mindset most enthusiasts have towards these engines... I know most BMW guys see an N62 and run the other way. They do have issues but truthfully if you sort those out (and they aren't that bad to do with the engine out, which obviously it will be for a swap) they can be pretty good motors. A 4.8 especially, churning out ~370hp and 490n-m of torque, is like 9/10ths the performance of an S62 for 1/4 the price

[Jason5driver]

Hey ?

[seagreen323i]

Seems like a good plan. I just got pretty burned by the last n62 we had around the house so I don't trust it lol. Planning on using stock engine management from the x5/550 or otherwise? I'd be interested to learn how you get all the electronics to play nice I could never really grasp that.

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[BimmerBreaker]

Hey ?

Hey Jason

Seems like a good plan. I just got pretty burned by the last n62 we had around the house so I don't trust it lol. Planning on using stock engine management from the x5/550 or otherwise? I'd be interested to learn how you get all the electronics to play nice I could never really grasp that.

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It will be using the E53 electronics/wiring/modules. I was able to get the stock N62 DME/Valvetronic DME and IVM to align to the Z3 EWS and play nicely, the E39 which is basically identical electronics-wise to the E53, should be absolutely trivial in comparison. There are a few reasons this can be made to work, the Z3 EWS is compatible with the generation of EWS the E53 used for example. The other critical reason to use the E53 stuff over the others is that the E53 N62 did not use the CAS anti-theft system (every other N62 powered car did). The E39 and E53 are basically identical wiring/electronics-wise

Pretty simply - study an E53 M54 3.0 wiring diagram. Then compare to the E39 M54 wiring diagram, observe that they are pretty much the same.
Then study the E53 N62 wiring diagram, and look at how it differs from the M54 stuff and replicate that in the E39

It's not entirely as easy as it sounds though, largely in part due to how freaking complicated the N62 makes a lot of stuff...

Lets look at a starting diagram for example. Z3 starting diagram. E39 starting diagram for non-V8's looks identical to this as well (V8's have one touch start so have a relay in there somewhere but aren't *that* much more complicated either):



The critical part is the bit on the left which is highlighted. That's the only relevant part of the starter circuit in that diagram. Red is power to ignition, orange is ignition (when key is cranking) to EWS, if EWS says "We are all good" then it lets the signal travel to the starter to energize the starter and start the engine

Below is part of the N62 starter diagram. Everything below is part of the starter circuit




It's not as complicated as it might seem, but it does require some figuring out

[JimLev]

G, how come your pics never work, just a square box.

[BimmrMeUpSnotty]

They work for me.

[seagreen323i]

Hmm, fascinating. Start my electrical engineering major this fall. Maybe one day I'll be helping you out lol.

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[JimLev]

They work for me.

I’ll try restarting my computer.

[BimmrMeUpSnotty]

Hey Jim, that was on my iPad, I have not fired up any of my Windows computers, the PC, or laptop for quite some time.

[JimLev]

I can’t see them on my PC or iPad. Restarted both, no good.
No problem seeing Seagreen’s pics.

[BimmrMeUpSnotty]

Hmmm, wierd. So, I imported his diagrams into my iPad, then tried to upload them and I get an invalid file error, can’t upload them on my end.

[blarf]

The pictures in question are being served up as WebP (a.k.a. more Google garbage) files which has spotty support across various platforms. Trim down the URL and you'll get the original JPEG image that's usable nearly everywhere.