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E90 N51 engine
Hello everyone I need your help please.
So in the morning I turn on my car and it was just fine I just saw Radiator sign in yellow showing in my dashboard. car wasn't overheating or anything. I freaked out so I turned the car off and then back on again and it went away. It never done that. Last time I topped off the antifreeze was last March and it was full.
So I checked when car was cool and it looked almost empty but when I put the antifreeze it only took half a Ct. I saw little leak under on of the radiator it must be really slow leak.
I don't know anyone good in NYC to trust them with doing such a job. If you have any idea how much will this cost and if I can drive like that and wait on repairing will it be ok? will it mess something else in my car leaving this untreated? I don't see major leak its wet on the plastic shield in the bottom of the hood when you look down
Do you recommend a mechanic in NYC? Will it make a difference that my car is a SULEV? does it cost more to fix this issue?
I'm really so nervous I don't want someone else to rip me off. Please advise me
thank you
Last edited by maxcsr; 01-25-2021 at 09:51 PM.
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I have a 2008 328i with the SULEV engine. The radiator went bad a few years ago. Because it is a SULEV vehicle, the radiator has a special black coating to treat ozone into inert gases. This special radiator has an embedded sensor monitored by the computer that makes it unique. That means that you cannot replace it with a non SULEV radiator. If the computer does not see the sensor, it will throw a special code and turn on the check engine light. In California, you cannot register a car with the check engine light, so I assume it is the same in NYC.
Expect to pay around $500+ for the radiator alone plus labor, coolant, etc. to replace it. It is an easy DIY job.
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If your SULEV has less than 150K miles, and needs a radiator, it is covered by your SULEV extended warranty. Call BMW or a Dealer and give them you VIN.
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Originally Posted by maxcsr
So, a year ago?
The SULEV shouldn't matter for this.
My strategy would be to top the system, I'd think that a quart or two should do the trick, then do a little more frequent checking. The car is designed to tell you when to raise the hood, so having a single instance is not alarming. Check under the hood bi-weekly or maybe monthly, but in any case you should check more than annually. If you check again in a week or two and it's okay, then you shouldn't have a problem. It's normal and customary that fluids are consumable, the rate of consumption is the problem. You just told us that you used a quart in a year, that is not alarming. You want to watch, of course, because you don't know if you used the quart over the past year, or you used in the past week. This is why you need to look several times over the next month or so. If the coolant level holds, then you're good to go. If it repeatedly drops, then you have maintenance issues to deal with.
I'm not going to argue the point with Old525 (Post #2) about the special radiator and the cost of it, I have no reason to think that he's not right. But, I maintain my position that your course of action TODAY is to monitor the situation as I stated above. Before you refinance your house, you should see if there is a problem greater than the random slow seepage of fluids from a car that's 12 years old.
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Yes ihave Sulev extended warranty. I usually take it to same dealer who knows about the warranty I have, but I called him today I told him I had a misfire which I wanted him to take care of it under the warranty but I also asked him how much it'll be to replace my radiator because it leaking and he never warned me 2 weeks ago when I brought in for oil pan replacement and paid $2350 for it. He didn't mentioned to me that its covered under warranty but said will call me back but didnt. Will he try to force me into believing its not part of warranty?
Thank you so much for letting me know this I was about to do it and pay for it I appreciate your advise here.
I hope you can advise me how to deal with him in this specific matter so I can get this done under sulev without getting ripped off
Thanks again
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Thank you very much
Member
max, I think your oil pan gasket should have been covered. Call another dealer or call BMW.
Sometimes a dealer will charge both the owner and BMW for the same work. Also, be aware, BMW pays less for repairs than the dealer would charge you. Again, call and ask about the radiator. You have the knowledge, now use your power. Just don't get mad and stay civil.
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Are you serious?? He changed my oil pan but never mentioned that its covered under SULEV. I always bring it in to this dealer because he is one of the only dealers in NYC that actually knows about the Sulev extended warranty. I'm surprised that he didn't mention that to me if it is actually covered. How can I prove that?
Thanks
Member
UPDATE**
So I called BMW of North America now and I told them what you told me. They were very helpful she told me I will call the dealership GM on my behalf now and ask him why did he charge me for something that should have been covered under Sulev. I was surprised they connected me to the GM of that dealership. He said The Oil Pan is NOT covered under sulev. He also said the Radiator is not covered (Only the sensor on the radiatior is covered) I specifically told him that I have asked on BMW forums and they advised me that its covered under the Sulev he disagreed and told me that SULEV only covers Emmision related issues nothing outside that. He said if you have documentation from BMW saying that the Oil pan gasket and Radiator is covered under Sulev that I need to bring it in because he said its not covered.
Can you please help me to clarify to him this and prove that its covered. Do you have anything I can use as a reference to that?
Thank you so much for giving me heads up here and working this out for me I appreciate it
Last edited by maxcsr; 01-27-2021 at 02:27 PM.
Member
Did BMW say the parts were covered? If so, get BMW to send you a letter/email confirming the coverage. From what I understand is that the sensor on the radiator cannot be removed from the radiator, and thus the radiator is covered.
Remember to always be nice and don't lose your temper. Also, for non-warranty work start looking for an independent shop.
Check out these two forums, which are much more active for the E90:
https://www.e90post.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=2
https://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/e9...-2006-2013.99/
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BMW said they don't know why the GM is claiming that its not covered. They advised me once I bring vehicle for service and they have ran a diagnostic and if he still saying Radiator* is not covered then I need to call them and they can help me at that time.
Are you sure the oil pan is covered? he replaced my oil pan but I don't see oil pan on the Sulev coverage pdf. Or is it called something else?
I see it says "Radiator W/DORS (Automatic Trans) does that mean the full radiator?
I posted a screenshot of the Sulev warranty below please point out for me the Oil pan and radiator if they are covered for sure.
Thank you so much
1st.png
2nd.png
Last edited by maxcsr; 01-27-2021 at 03:44 PM.
Member
I suggested you ask BMW if the oil pan is covered. Note, you posted info for the PZEV and not the SULEV. SULEV has a much more strict standard, and was designed to keep California happy. New York and a few other states, including Maryland where I live, have signed on to the California standard.
Remember, a car leaking oil is no longer SULEV, as oil is a hydrocarbon.
You might want to find another dealer.
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I assume you mean radiator and not alternator, as an alternator is probably not covered.
Member
where can I find the documentation for Sulev. What I have it says PZEV
Thanks
Member
I'm so confused. BMW NA told you that the warranty should cover, and the dealership said, No? Something here does not add up.
The SULEV is a federal emissions designation that gives an increased margin on the sale of the car with the longer exposure to warranty issues on the back end. If the automaker brings in a bunch of SULEV cars, then they get an incentive for reducing emissions. If there is an emission related service call, they have to cover it under the warranty. That's the simple explanation. They (the automaker) seals the car tighter against evaporative emissions, regulates engine temp within a tighter range, those sorts of things. They get an incentive to put these cars on the street, but they have to cover the incentive items longer than the same sorts of things on a non-SULEV car.
They are concerned with combustion emissions, evaporative emissions, and fluids leaking out. If the automaker sells 25 cars, and one of them leaks, then they have the incentives that they already collected to cover the warranty costs. They make money on the SULEV platform, kind of like the insurance company writes 100,000 policies and pays one claim. BMW sells 100,000 SULEV cars, and has to fix one. The country gets lower emissions -- combustion, fumes, and fluid -- and the automaker is subsidized for repairs. You can Google "BMW SULEV" to learn more about the incentives. I don't even think it's a "State thing," so any dealer anywhere in the country has to honor the warranty. They simply submit a claim to BMW NA to be paid for the work they do.
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Just to add confusion, when I did a search, I see BMW is listing 'SULEV (PZEV)'. I always thought the SULEV was a higher standard than the PZEV.
As I said before, call BMW and ask, as it is not what I say that counts it is what BMW says that counts. Also, see if they can send you a specific list of what is covered.
Member
The entire radiator is an emissions control device since it converts ozone into a harmless gas.
Member
OLD, I agree on the radiator, but it is not what we both say that counts. It is what BMW tells the dealer! Also, I'm sure there are unscrupulous dealers who get paid both by BMW, under the warranty, and by the customer, who they dupe.
The other question for the OP was whether his oil pan gasket should have been covered under the warranty. Again, he needs to get the answer from BMW.
Member
Ok so after some research I found this detailed info about the Sulev but I still don't understand it very well. I hope you guys can help me point out the radiator and the oil pan coverage in this booklet.
I have an appointment with BMW dealer on Tuesday next week I will defiantly keep you updated
Sulev booklet for my vehicle
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1nho...ew?usp=sharing
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I forgot to ask you.
If they replace the radiator will they also replace all the hoses or reuse old hoses? I would prefer they change the hoses.
I also had a weird issue today. Airbag came on stayed on its so annoying. I don't want to clear it on the carly app because if I do I will delete the history code for misfiure which is covered under sulev and the only way they would repair the misfire if there is a code 0093C3 I can't find a coding option to disable this on carly app. I hope thats also covered in someway =)
Member
I don't know about hoses, but I would ask BMW. You can always pay them to do the hoses.
Regarding the airbag, if the code was one of those intermittent things, and even though the light is on, the airbag will still work.
Member
I appreciate your time sir thank you very much for answering all my concerns
Member
Ok so I had a bad day today.
I was driving and seen white smoke coming inside car from the vents and the hood started to show white smoke I stopped right away. No check engine light, No code.
I opened the hood and I see now the leak is coming from another areas. First leak when I first noticed it a few days ago was by the upper right hose. Now I also see leak coming from under reservoir (the tank that holds antifreeze). I see the side of the engine from the left by the antifreeze tank is so wet. I hope the antifreeze won't cause any of the electronics to malfunction or damage them if they got wet by it.
How is that possible? I guess the white smoke is dripping on the exhaust and causing the smoke. does that make sens?
I had no choice but to tow it to the dealer which there were closed for service but they took my car and parked it inside so when they open Monday they can check it. I told them don't run car so it wont overheat and cause more issues i really hope they don't do anymore harm to my car and that it will be covered under Sulev otherwise I might go bankrupt here
I will wait for dealer to call me once they open and check it.
If this not covered by sulev in worst case scenario, how much would all that cost me in repairs?
Last edited by maxcsr; 01-31-2021 at 08:30 PM.
Member
The dealer called me today saying it'll cost $2210 for radiator with upper and lower hoses.
I told him that Radiator covered under sulev. He re-checked and said yes, so I have to pay for the hoses which = $900+ tax
I hope its a reasonable price for the hoses alone.
Member
$900 for hoses is very high.
They take the old hoses off to change the radiator, then put them back on or they put on new ones. It's the same work so they should not be charging labor at all. If the radiator is covered by the warranty, then the labor for the hoses should be covered as well since they must remove the hoses to change the radiator. The difference to you, the customer, is if they reinstall old hoses or put on new ones. I would argue that you should only pay for the hoses themselves, but not the labor. If they were not replacing the radiator then there is a strong argument that they should charge you for the labor to replace the hoses, but they are doing warranty work for the radiator that includes a requirement to take the hoses off and put them back on. If you drove in and scheduled a hose replacement, then they would pull out the book that tells them how long it takes, and then charge you $900. That might be a reasonable charge in that case. But you are getting radiator service that requires the hoses that you are having replaced are already being taken off and put back on as part of the labor that is shown in the book.
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I just texted him I told him labor should be covered under sulev. thats what he wrote me; "There is some overlap but not completely you will pay some labor for hoses." So I texted back told him what you told me and he said; "Don't have to remove hoses only disconnect from where attaches to radiator. More work to completely replace".
I'm going to try to negotiate for a little less I hope they can work out something reasonable here
Last edited by maxcsr; 02-02-2021 at 12:51 AM.
Member
So I have good news.
I argued with dealer based on the information you provided me and he finally will do radiator with all new hoses and I will only pay $512+tax which is reasnable I think from $2210 to 900 to 512 is actually good bargain. I would have been screwed if it wasn't for you guys. I appreciate everyone's input and advises and especially JDStrickland you been a huge help here thank you all
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