I’m looking for any information on converting a single throttlebody E36 M3 modem to an individual throttlebody from the E36 M3 European style meaning brackets hoses and any additional parts that I need to do this conversion I already have the throttle bodies and the spacer any information would be greatly appreciated. I’m looking to turbo charge the car making close to 1000 hp that is my goal thank you for any information.
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Why not run a PPF intake manifold ?
http://server.pure-pf.com/webshop2/e...6r-m50m52.html
You talking about the Plenum correct thank you for that info I’ve never seen that before but will definitely bolt on to the ITB is that I have from the European models correct?
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It’s amazing that I have the S54 ITB but nobody made the adapter for them, I just purchased the adapter for the E36 ITB, I wish I knew that you had this adapter.
By the way how much are you asking for those adapters I have other friends of mine that might be looking to go that route.
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If your ultimate (and serious) goal is 1000whp, I don't know why you are trying to also convert over to ITBs. Generally, 1000whp means standalone and speed density fueling up top because you max out most MAFs. Speed density fueling starts to break down when using ITBs because your ITBs kill the vacuum linearity down low. You have 1 cylinder pulling vac, but 5 losing it with ITBs. Some ECUs have "blended" alpha N mapping that allows you to use TPS down low to get decent drivability from the ITBs then transition to speed density up top, but that can be tricky and time consuming to get working correctly. If you can find a MAF that will acomodate your HP goals, that will make your life much simpler.
I went through a similar mindset as you have with my STI and roller barrel ITBs, but it ended up being a pretty big waste of time and money in the end. ITBs just don't mix very well with turbos at the extreme high end and most high HP RB26s swap to a single throttle. That should tell you everything you need to know. ITBS also have many more failure points to leak boost, especially 35-40psi levels of boost which would be needed for 1000whp. A 1000whp turbo engine doesn't ever scream throttle response monster to me either. I hate to poopoo ambition, and love stuff like this, but rather someone not make similar mistakes as I did. Sometimes the best advice is not exactly what you wanted to hear. If you are just doing this as a challenge and learning exercise, then you will certainly learn a lot.
There are many things that contribute to throttle response, not just throttled volume (which ITBs minimize)
1. Compression ratio/torque down low (turbo cars are naturally handicapped here vs NA). Need high torque generation to spin up the engine quickly at low RPMs
2. Rotational inertia (light flywheel, clutch, internals, etc)
3. Throttled volume (IE entire volume of intake between TB and valves.) Obviously, the less air capacitance between the throttle and engine, the quicker the engine is to respond.
Last edited by wgknestrick; 01-22-2021 at 04:43 PM.
I appreciate the information and the input and your experience but I always want to build this project and me and my friend that’s very good in tuning we are going to incorporate a speed density and a mass air meter in this set up so I can have both worlds so another words the mass air meter is going to come in at idle and mid throttle and speed desert is going to take over from mid to wide open throttle the other thing I am building this to do 1000 hp on the dyno and then return the car for street use around 600 to 800 hp, so I understand exactly what you’re saying that I don’t need this throttle response and there’s a lot of other things that could go wrong but I am willing to try something that everybody gives up on for a while this is not gonna be a car I’m gonna be racing every day it’s going to be a street driven weekend holy Mary to drive around that’s my goal.
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I wish I knew two months ago I would’ve definitely bought your adapter because the one that I bought I’m having issues with it and I have to correct a lot of mistakes that they did I guess life is live and learn every day something new.
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You could sell the euro s50 ITBs and adapter and probably be money ahead with buying my adapter and source a complete S54 ITB setup for a few hundred. From memory the euro S50 ITBs go for $800-1000 per set?
That is why I designed my own adapter, none of the ones on the market have the correct angle, or really any consideration in the design. Most are just a straight flange, with poor fitment, no consideration of the runner length, or no consideration of the injector intercept angle. Mine retains the factory s54 angle for the ITBs so you can use a stock or aftermarket plenum/manifold(boosted).
I even got a CSL airbox to fit, but it requires a little bit of massaging/modification.
I made a nice cable linkage too that is specific to my adapter that gets the linkage up out of the way of the wiring harness and coolant return pipe.
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Last edited by Talperian; 01-22-2021 at 06:41 PM.
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That right there is sexy af.
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Yes I was referring to intake plenum. I'm not to familiar with what's needed for a true ITB set up but the info in this thread seems to be going in the right direction.
S50B32 are S54B32 throttles are the same size
Last edited by digger; 01-23-2021 at 07:03 PM.
BMW E30 325is M20B33 in the making....... ITB's, roller rockers and stroked to the hilt
Yup, but s50b30 throttles are 49mm, unless i am mistaken.
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I do have both the European E36 M3 throttle bodies and the American E 46 they both measure 48 mm the backside is a little different on the E46 opposed to the E36. The E36 are over I hope that clears up some questions that people have about the two.
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Here is where it has been discussed before
https://forums.m3cutters.co.uk/threa....144432/page-2
dont have one off the car at the moment
BMW E30 325is M20B33 in the making....... ITB's, roller rockers and stroked to the hilt
I have a question for everybody here, l keep hearing that when you put individual throttle bodies on an E36 M3 model you don’t make as much power as you would if you have a single throttlebody on it, so why is all the E46 individual throttlebody M3 make so much power when they boost them? that’s what I’m trying to re-create I just rebuilt all these throttle bodies and I am going to increase the fuel and change the intake because I still have the original naturally aspirated.
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Last edited by 1995m3lover; 01-31-2021 at 09:01 AM.
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Remove the plastic bushings and replace them with brass.
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ITB are about throttle response, it's nothing more than that. If a certain manifold design makes more power than another it is because of the runner geometry (size, length and shape) and how nice the plenum is from a pressure recovery, distribution between each cylinder and resonant characteristic. You could build a S54/S50 ITB manifold without the throttles and put a single large throttle near the MAF and at WOT it would make the same power. At WOT the throttles are open and do nothing positive for VE, on the other hand there is a possibility of them creating a restriction but only if the runner diameter is sized on the small size (not the case for the S5x engines). It is at part and moving throttles that the engine responds faster this is the only reason for them other than being open to running as open trumpets for lots of induction noise.
E46m3 make so much power because they have good cylinder heads and cam profiles has zero to do with the number of throttle blades.
the reason people say to use a single throttle is it is much simpler to tune from a tuning strategy perspective and less likely to leak in the long term (less parts and leak paths).
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what's the size of the oval where it meets the head? Can you measure the width and height?
Last edited by digger; 01-31-2021 at 03:49 PM.
BMW E30 325is M20B33 in the making....... ITB's, roller rockers and stroked to the hilt
Does anybody know where I could purchase a short run for a turbo application for these E36 ITB European throttle bodies, they have the two bolts that actually bolt the trumpets into the throttle bodies on the stock intake.
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