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Hello all,
Recently purchased a $1,000 E36 325is. It seems to be in decent condition, with decent parts (bilstiens PSS9s, LSD, etc)
The steering feel is complete garbage, alignment is definitely off, steering feels numb and at times difficult to control. The car currently has E46 front control arms w/ knuckle adaptors w/ off-centered poly control arm bushings. Should I attribute my terrible steering feel to the E46 knuckles & knuckle adaptors?
Additionally, does anyone have any recommendations for a steering rack & bushings moving forward? So far I'm planning on OEM E36 front control arms, OEM E36 tie rods w/ new boots, Z3 steering rack w/ all new lines, BimmerWorld poly FCABs, and BimmerWorld OEM RTABs w/ poly limiters. Let me know what I should add tweak, etc. The car is 100% auto-x, HPDE, and canyon driving.
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Is this a drift car? Why are you running E46 FLCAs? The E46 FLCAs add width to the front track, which increases front camber, and I believe the front toe would need to be set close to “0”. If an alignment was not accomplished after installation then there is probably significant.
Toe-In.
Unfortunately, if you are running the E46 steering knuckles/King Pins the coil over struts will be incorrect for the E36 King Pins/brakes, unless the E46 King Pin has been adapted to E36 Strut geometry?
Perhaps the E36 FLCA outer ball joint has the correct size/taper pin for the E46 Kin Pin.
An upgrade for the 318/325/323/328 rubber isolated outer ball joint FLCA, would be to use the 1995M3 FLCAs, Lemforder E30 FLCAs (steel or aluminum), or Meyle HD E36 FLCAs - listed in descending price point. All three (or four) of these FLCA set have the same geometry and have a solid outer ball joint. Any of these could/should be run with with the 1995M3 offset FLCABushings for added caster.
The Z3 steering rack that is desired is the 1.9L steering rack that sports fewer turns lock-to-lock.
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Last edited by bluptgm3; 12-19-2020 at 09:20 PM.
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I think the e46 arm mod requires running e90 tie rod ends. But other than that I *believe* everything else is the same. Bluput might be right though about those coilovers being the wrong model for your car.
My only advice is to try borrowing a friend's car that is closer to stock and compare how they drive
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ʎlpuǝᴉɹɟ ʎɹǝʌ
M3 FCA's
M3 offset CAB's
Camber plates or swapped 96+ M3 strut hats
x-brace
alignment
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02.92 325is / 06.72 2002 / 02.91 XJ / 08.04 R53 JCW
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I'd suggest bringing everything back to original in the most cost effective way possible and instead invest in the best tires and also springs and dampers first.
Last edited by importbanana; 12-19-2020 at 05:09 PM.
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Was definitely a drift car. There’s no point to running e46 arms unless it’s a drift car. Just get OEM stuff and get an alignment.
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There are a couple possible culprits for terrible steering feel. E46 parts aren't automatic culprits in my mind, since a lot of stuff is interchangeable.Originally Posted by edavis47
First, your alignment is probably WAY off. You can get it close to where it should be in your driveway, but you should get it aligned. This crazy mish-mash of parts will make it hard to get anywhere near factory settings all around, but you should be able to get to at least near a normal toe setting. That's the first thing I'd check. If they used E36 outer tie rods instead of E46, that would make it toe in like crazy. Someone said E90, which may work too, but the E46 inner tie rods are the same as E36, just the outer rods are longer on E46, and that is what should pair with the E46 FCAs.
Second, the steering joint is probably original. It should be hard rubber, but yours is probably more like a used, wet sponge. Replace it with a new one, or for a little harder edge get an E34 U-joint instead of the factory guibo.
...
I got an E46 ZHP rack instead of a Z3 rack. They're easier to find and cheaper, and I believe they're also slightly quicker. Now that I made my decision I don't remember exactly anymore, but that's my recollection.
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@blkstrm I see you don’t know sh!t about drifting.
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Ya, E46 ZHP rack is more desirable, probably equally hard to find.
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And I see you don't know sh!t about anything besides drifting. Running E46 arms may not be common outside of the drift scene, but it gives any E36 a SIGNIFICANTLY wider front track and is occasionally done when a race class doesn't prohibit it.
I helped install E46 M3 FCAs and outer tie rods on an E36 race car (including all the other stuff we had to do to make it work), so I understand what needs to change, and also have first hand knowledge that doing things right would not result in sh!t handling.
I will acknowledge that we didn't use a bunch of sketchy parts - we used actual E46 M3 stuff for the most part. So if you mean to say I didn't cobble a death trap together from a bunch of home-made parts bought on ebay on a $200 budget, you're dead right.
It also wasn't a drift car - it was a race car. We widened the rear as much as we widened the front and wide bodied the whole car.
This E36 was running faster laps than the Spec E46 cars in its run group despite being down on power to the tune of 35-40whp.
So, would you care to be more specific about what exactly I don't know anything about?
If anything, an angle kit should make it overly responsive and jittery, not numb. But if there is an angle kit on there, that should be easy to remove and re-align even without removing the E46 arms, and would bring you back to a somewhat normal steering situation.
Actually, now that i think about it maybe I don't know sh!t about drifting. If sh!t work, questionable parts, and bad decisions are the norm in the drift world, you're right - I know nothing about it.
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First off, thank you to everyone for the responses! This car was previously used as a drift car; in order to fit the E46 FLCAs they added knuckle adaptors. From what I understand, I should change my list to include '95 M3 FLCAs, '95 spec M3 off-set (poly?) FCABs, and Z3 1.9L steering rack & steering u-joint? And of course an alignment.
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I like the poly FCABs - I didn't notice NVH get much worse, but it helped tighten things up.
I'd look for both the ZHP yellow tag rack and the Z3 rack. I don't think you'd notice much difference between the two, but I've found 2 ZHP racks (one mine, one for a friend) within a couple days of starting to look. It's just anecdotal, but they seem easier to find to me than a Z3 rack and are slightly quicker.
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I think Meyle HD at 1/4 the price might be a better choice.
E30 Meyle FLCAs
https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...0-e302piece-my
E36 Meyle HD
https://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-3...-duty-upgrade/
https://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-2...-duty-upgrade/
https://www.bimmerworld.com/Suspensi...0500023HD.html
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Last edited by bluptgm3; 12-20-2020 at 10:14 PM.
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Despite what the description says, judging by the picture of the link, if the outer balljoints have this little metal bar on the underside like the original ones do, then it's not the HD version, the Meyle HD version control arms are the same as non-HD except the outer balljoint is different, it's all metal and round when you look at it from below, and also HD doesn't have the additional layer of rubber between the outer and inner part of the balljoint. But maybe they just put the wrong picture there.
This is HD judging by the picture: https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...-31126758513my
Last edited by importbanana; 12-20-2020 at 09:15 PM.
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Right, good catch.
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Full track build so NVH isn't too much of a concern, Poly FCABs 100% on the list. Since this is a budget build with the sole purpose of seat time in mind I'm leaning towards the Z3 rack as they could be found for cheaper (around $250)
I went to the junk yard today and found a spotless steering rack from a '99 M3 with ~50,000 miles on it for $30. Might just end up going with that. I don't know if the extra $220 for the Z3 rack is justifiable. Current rack in the car is most definitely dead, so I think ANYTHING would be an improvement aha.
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Replace the reservoir when changing the steering rack. Reservoir contains a non-serviceable filter.
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Right on, so just to confirm the Meyle E30 FLCAs connected to E36 Poly FCABs (I will not need to get E30 FCABs) will be a direct fit to my 325is with no further additionally modification needed? I'm coming from the world of E46/E90 M3s haha, not used to all the intergenerational parts mix/mashing.
- - - Updated - - -
New Reservoir & all new PS lines are on the list when the rack gets swapped out!
Last edited by edavis47; 12-20-2020 at 11:11 PM.
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There's no part mixing. Why would you buy E30 FLCAs ? Get the E36 FLCAs.
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I'm also not sure why he posted the E30 arms (though yes, they are interchangeable with <1995 arms despite not being the same part number). Maybe it was just for cost purposes?
You should buy that rack, even if you just turn around and flip it on Marketplace or something. It's worth way more than $30.
I found my ZHP rack for about $150.
I used https://www.autopartsearch.com/catal...ring-gear-rack
I took each VIN, and then looked them up on www.mdecoder.com to see when the 330 I was looking at was a ZHP (there are a couple tell-tales, the wheels and interior trim being the easiest ones to spot. Also, mdecoder may not be the best place to look them up anymore). The scrap yards don't know the difference between a normal 330 and a ZHP, so they don't price the racks differently than any random old car. But I found that they've seen enough demand for Z3 racks over the years that Z3 racks are far more expensive. They also frequently list anything interchangeable, so you have to sift through a lot of E36s to find a Z3... it's just a pain and not worth it. But finding a ZHP rack was pretty easy and cheap using this method. Like I said, I've found 2 of them this way. I just called the yard and told them I wanted them to text me a picture of the tag on the rack so I could verify (it should have a yellow tag and end in 712).
-Josh: 1998 S54 E36 M3/4/6 with most of the easy stuff and most of the hard stuff. At least twice. 271k miles. 1994 E32 740il with nothing but some MPars. 93k miles.
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Also doublecheck your coilovers aren't installed on the wrong side. Some self installers install them on the opposite sides which throws out the swaybar connection and makes steering feel shit.
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Ya cost.
Looking to get rid of the E36 FLCA rubber isolated outer ball joint?
These three are all the same geometry-
1) 1995M3 FLCA $$$$$
2a) E30M3 OE Aluminum FLCA $$$$$$
2b) E30 OE Steel FLCA $$$
2c) E30 Lemforder OEM Steel FLCA $$
3) Meyle HD E36 FLCA $
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Can you provide a link to the E46 ‘Knuckle adapters”?
The hexagonal ends of the E46 FLCAs would require a ‘special’ FLCABushing/‘lollipop’.
And there are E36 King Pins that have had the Tie Rod Lug cut, and repositioned.
These www.drifthq.com Unicorn Drift Knuckles?
E36
E46
OP has indicated a 325 as the chassis, unlikely he has the 325 SB attached to the (E36M3) PSS9s.
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Last edited by bluptgm3; 12-22-2020 at 02:19 AM.
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welding on any kinds of suspension/knuckle parts is dangerous.
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Agreed, shops like BimmerWorld have been doing this for years for roll center correction ...perhaps they are x-ray inspecting the welds......it is also why components like these carry the disclaimer “For Track Only”
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