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How is that atx20 battery holding up? did you have to do anything for terminals?
Member
Yup, you have to use generic M6-to-SAE terminals to let the E34's cables attach, but no big deal.Originally Posted by 5mall5nail5
Because it's a 10Ah battery (and probably halve that, effectively, because of the self-cutoff protection) the battery drains in about two days. Awful for a pandemic/WFH-era road car, but I have a charger to keep it topped up.
Member
Ok so similar specs and less than a 1lb lighter and slightly cheaper than the AGM Braille G20 I ran a few years back. Now running the Braille i34 with a carbon case for the last ~5 years and couldn’t be happier. Anything over 2 weeks of sitting I toss on a tender, but I’d do that with any car.
Glad you’re enjoying it!
"You may all go to Hell, and I will go to Texas."
Davy Crockett
www.Angry-Ass.com
My Build Thread Part 1, Part 2
DIY E31 X-Brace Mod and Install
DIY Rear Seat Backrest Modification for E32 Armrest
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Awesome - I do have a monster fuel pump and electric fan. I have to re-pin the fan to use the "fan out" on my ECU vs. the spare flexible, as the way its wired now runs the fan with key-on if the temp > X. I fear I could drain that with the fans and fuel pump on for long. Hmmm.
Any chance you can get a pic of what the terminals look like installed in the car? No rush.
Member
Thanks for waiting, I've been so slammed the last month that the E34 has just sat untouched.
PXL_20220830_063923308 by Brian Ma, on Flickr
The good news is, I think all the parts to fix the car have arrived! Just need to open up all the boxes and take stock, my credit card hurts remembering all of this.
Member
Our old '93 drove through Blizzards going to Tahoe so good enough for me!
Alright, finally less hot and I've gotten some things started.
1) TA16's are repaired, straight, and up for sale with or without tires; if nobody does I'll just run them into the ground since they fit both my E34 and E39 lol. I still think they're gorgeous, just don't have a use for them.
PXL_20220910_191205869 by Brian Ma, on Flickr
2) RS05RR's went to the powdercoater to be redone in cocaine white. Now that ceramic coating wheels is a thing, I'm absolutely in love with white wheels - the other two cars have white gravel rally wheels from Wedssport and OZ Racing respectively, can't wait to have the whole lineup coordinated
PXL_20220910_195414999 by Brian Ma, on Flickr
3) Those 2-piece roll center pucks are finally getting helicoils done at the machine shop. Be back soon.
4) Cylinder head! Cardelli Motorsports finished doing the valve job - new Supertech valves, new Achilles guides, 1:1 matched - so now it's on me to assemble.
PXL_20220924_192827156 by Brian Ma, on Flickr
I'm told the valve guides are supposed to go on with lube after the valves themselves are in... whoops. Pressed them on no-lube with a 10mm socket. If this is wrong, someone better tell me now.
PXL_20220924_195537390 by Brian Ma, on Flickr
Assy lube the crap out of the seals once all 24 are pressed on; assy lube the crap out of the valve stems and slide them in, numbers 1-12 for intake and exhaust respectively.
PXL_20220924_210417052 by Brian Ma, on Flickr
These special spring seats for Supertech's dual springs are neat, but annoying to actually install. Tolerances are pretty tight so they can't just fall into place.
PXL_20220924_213035727 by Brian Ma, on Flickr
I'm getting WAY more mileage out of my Metric Mechanic tool than I ever wanted to.
PXL_20220924_215038795 by Brian Ma, on Flickr
So, new Supertech dual springs, new Supertech retainers and keepers, very much OEM+ since I want this to be a daily-drivable engine once I retire the car from track duty. Head looks good, ready to scrape the block clean and install.
PXL_20220924_223224304 by Brian Ma, on Flickr
Bonus: I had a crackpipe idea to use my LED H4 sealed beams while saving weight - just get rid of the entire E34 headlight frame and just adapt the H4 itself to the body with a small bracket. Friend (that I sold my old CNC router to) helped me knock these adapters out a few evenings ago. Haven't finished drilling and tapping but you can see how the ring can attach to the LED heatsink. Maybe maybe maybe.
PXL_20220927_044243333 by Brian Ma, on Flickr
If they don't go on the E34, they can also be used to supplement my lifted E39 project lol...
PXL_20220926_165109318 by Brian Ma, on Flickr
Last edited by circuit.heart; 09-30-2022 at 08:08 PM.
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More updates!
1) Old lug nuts were starting to give up so I bit the bullet and finally left peasanthood.
PXL_20221008_202417952 by Brian Ma, on Flickr
2) Engine build fiasco
Since I have no experience cleaning and prepping iron blocks without a machinist doing all the work, I nabbed Danny Z from Arizona for a weekend to try and get this all done. And it was way nastier than it should have been.
New lifters - are they really supposed to be collapsed and hard out of the packaging? - went ahead and soaked these in oil beforehand:
PXL_20221014_232433908 by Brian Ma, on Flickr
As OCD as I could be getting tools, parts, and consummables together on the bench.
PXL_20221015_001539437 by Brian Ma, on Flickr
PXL_20221015_001548446 by Brian Ma, on Flickr
Cleaning was going well for all of 2 hours, when we realized that "hey... is the timing chain guide broken?" I guess that's why it progressively ran worse for the few minutes after my shifting blunder. Putting the head on had to be aborted immediately as we pulled out the broken timing chain guides and figured out where a replacement could be sourced from.
PXL_20221016_024321687 by Brian Ma, on Flickr
PXL_20221016_024326412 by Brian Ma, on Flickr
Long story short, this single part made the whole weekend a nightmare. In the course of the next few hours, we took apart my spare engine, a friend's spare engine, and called every parts dealer in the Bay Area open on a Saturday, and still couldn't source a single non-broken timing chain guide! Last resort, my old race M52 that had somehow ended up in Gilroy - I bought it back from the guy I sold it to, went to the storage unit on Sunday morning, broke the timing cover off, removed the head, and we finally extracted a pair of intact guides. As expected, since I built that engine and it had covered all of 2.5mi before being shut off and disassembled. There was still assembly lube on all the parts haha.
I didn't take a single picture during all of this and hopefully it's understood why lol.
Finally, we had guides, popped them in, got the timing cover on the front of the block and proceeded to install the head... and even this couldn't go smoothly. I had bought new ARP head studs for this S52, and upon install, two of them decided they wanted to stretch at 65 ft-lbs of torque! Huge disappointment - luckily Danny and I had had enough "Murphy's sense" to pull the old studs out of my M52 block before leaving the storage unit; cleaned two off, replaced one at a time, and thank whatever powers may be they torqued to 75 ft-lbs.
If you can't even trust ARP studs in 2022, it really makes you wonder what's left that won't break. Oh well. S52 is back together, once I've got the rest of the accessories bolted up it'll fire!
PXL_20221017_031437568 by Brian Ma, on Flickr
Member
Always an adventure, isn’t it.
On your lifter question, what were you expecting them to be like?
Single Stage
Seems like everything we take apart lately reveals a broken chain guide. It's not just the v8s anymore. Excited to see this thing roaming around and at tracks again soon.
1990 Alpine 535i/5 - BC Coilovers, LSD, M5 Swaybars, 540 Brakes, A/C Mods, Sport Seats
1986 Alpine 528e - 500k+ miles daily driver
1992 Island 525i/5
1988 Alpine/Indigo 735i/5
MORΩN ΛABIA
BMW CCA Member
What happened with ARP? Did they start offshore manufacturing like all the rest?
Old BMW's FTW
Supposedly they're still made in the USA, according to the box. But maybe the raw materials for the manufacturing are being imported from elsewhere...
1995 525i 5-speed - Thread
Member
The last time I bought INA lifters they came with a little preload spring, so you could squish them even before putting them in the car. These guys seem to have shipped "fully down" so there was nothing to squish and I was paranoid as hell before putting them in. Glad the fears were just fears.
When we got to #8 and #9 on the ARP tightening pattern, these two studs took a while to torque to 50ft-lb, which was weird already. As we tried to do 75, they got to 65ft-lb on the torque wrench before "slipping" down to 50 again, at which point, they wouldn't load the torque wrench more than 60ft-lb no matter how much further we turned the nut. That seems like textbook bolt stretch to me, so Danny and I called it and replaced the studs. The two old ARP's also had one "slip" moment, so maybe that was some crap in the hole we didn't clean perfectly, but after the slip, they torqued to 75ft-lb no problem and I have been retorquing them every few drives since then.
So, all of that work and BS just to be back at our starting point lol...
PXL_20221022_062739817 by Brian Ma, on Flickr
No proper video yet but the engine purrs good. I lost another DME to a 1281 code, it was targeting 16:1 AFR's lol... anyways, new DME, new thermostat (another 5 or 10F colder it looks like), just running in the engine to remove all the water that gets in the oil from removing a head. 4th gear acceleration seems about right (80-100mph in ~3s) so it's probably time for an oil change and coolant flush to make sure the new headgasket is doing its job.
In the past I was using NGK Iridiums with two prongs, but apparently NGK Double Platinum (4-prong) was the OEM plug for a '97 M3? I know nothing about spark plugs, what are the pros and cons of these plugs and what do these features even do?
PXL_20221019_171818320 by Brian Ma, on Flickr
Bonus: all the cars are finally reassembled now (wagon had an SLS pump failure) so I can finally put up all the tools and park both of them back in the garage. Finally.
PXL_20221025_054245842~2 by Brian Ma, on Flickr
Last edited by circuit.heart; 10-25-2022 at 02:20 PM.
Member
FWIW, I run cheap NGK Copper (single prong) plugs in both my S52 with race cams and high compression pistons and stock E36 M3's. I change the plugs every 10-15k miles which is likely overkill, but they cost less than $15 from Rock Auto and I swear the S52 seems to be happy with fresh plugs more frequently.
From what I understand, the four prong plugs have a long service life. I don't recall what the handbook states but I think they are rated for 60K miles or something
Glad you got the beast going again! I'll be at Sonoma on 11/20 with CFRA. You should try to make it, if you can!
Last edited by Johal E32; 10-26-2022 at 04:49 PM.
Member
I am still a BKR7E fanatic
boost pls
yep ive ran those coppers for ages.
Member
Interesting... if I can ever keep the engine together for more than a few months it'd be worth dyno testing plugs.
Unfortunately I already have a prior commitment on 11/19 to head down to LA (wheel delivery to Danny). I'm gonna spend more time making sure the engine is robust before the next "assume good and send it" haha.
I think I had them in the bad M50B30 for however many miles that thing lasted, the engine was so bad I would have no idea if it was the plugs or not lol. Can always try again!
Member
Definitely not the plugs
Old BMW's FTW
I just run the cheapest plugs that SSF carries, because my 314k mile M50NV fouls them before they actually go bad. Bosch FLR-8-LDCU+ is the model I use, they're $2.65 each. They're a two-prong copper plug, I think.
1995 525i 5-speed - Thread
Member
Bingo. That's the exact plug I run in my stroker S52. $1.74/per plug.
For the stock S52 I run the stock heat range plug, which is the BKR6E, I think..
Member
Will keep in mind.
Still checking my head studs every ~100mi, annoying as hell... about to go down to the garage and do it again. I've got my wheels refreshed and they're glorious.
2022_1104_14252300~2 by Brian Ma, on Flickr
Member
Lots of good news this week. Not only have my head studs not moved yet, I managed to get the new 2-piece roll center pucks installed and shaken down, and everything does what it is supposed to do.
As you can probably see, the big effect of the 2pc puck is the ability to offset the steering arm (ball joints and tierod location, basically) relative to the strut mounting. So in this particular puck, the strut gets pushed out 8mm and forward 4mm while keeping the original control arms and tierod geometry. For me, the 2pc design is also chosen because a 1pc 2" tall puck would require a REALLY long bolt (like 75mm or so), and 2pc pucks can just use stock length. Long bolts aren't as resistant to stretching as short ones, so using short bolts gives me peace of mind when this car is doing 1.5G mid-corner and hits a curb.
PXL_20221105_084415168 by Brian Ma, on Flickr
The 8mm out should be obvious why - it's an extra 1deg of camber. I am sitting at 4.5deg now which should be right around where the tires want. The 4mm forward offset needs discussion. As I've mentioned in a previous post, I want to move the wheel forward in the wheel well both for aesthetics as well as weight distribution (whatever I can get without causing issues). However, moving the wheel forward without changing the steering axis results in reduced caster trail (aka mechanical trail) in the front suspension. Without being too technical and boring, caster trail is one big factor in how good the E34 steering feels. We have a good amount of caster and a good amount of caster trail which results in a lot of self-steer (the front wheels follow whatever direction the front end is headed), making it easy to drive these cars a little sideways. Reducing the trail will reduce self-steer, which I'm prepared for, but I don't know if it will overall benefit the car or hurt it.
The ideal puck design for me would be just the 8mm out, and then we use a longer thrust arm to get move the wheel forward while increasing caster and maintaining the factory caster trail. We just don't have the arms yet so I'm testing this as a compromise.
Anyhow, assembly! In this first pic are the pieces that bolt directly to the strut. Since they're aluminum, I have steel washers in the holes to try to avoid crushing the aluminum with the bolt (spread out the load better). You might also be able to see that the threaded holes are all helicoil'd, again for peace of mind since the torque spec on these bolts is 94 ft-lbs and we'll have to disassemble and reassemble once in a while (R&D car).
PXL_20221105_083117016 by Brian Ma, on Flickr
One those first pieces are installed, we stack the next one on top. Note the key/pocket feature to prevent alignment mistakes, credit to Dave for this. Each bolt gets a steel washer and goes into the helicoil thread. Once the two pieces are bolted together you can see the hole pattern to connect back to BMW's original steering arm.
PXL_20221105_083819876 by Brian Ma, on Flickr
A better look at the 8mm/4mm offset on my pucks.
PXL_20221105_084245858 by Brian Ma, on Flickr
Actually installing in the car is a pain - you need two people. Since you don't have the steering arm (steering system) backing you up, you're trying to torque 94 ft-lbs on a strut that's effectively floating. Someone's gotta be strong enough to hold it steady lol. First piece onto strut.
PXL_20221105_221824283 by Brian Ma, on Flickr
Second piece onto first piece, then steering arm onto second piece.
PXL_20221105_222557772 by Brian Ma, on Flickr
After installation I aligned the car back to 0 front toe, left the camber at 4.5 and went for a canyon drive.
1) Handling impressions
As predicted, the steering feel does change - it's a little less I-wanna-go-straight than before, and heavier on-center (how does that make sense, I don't know). That's neither good or bad IMO but it kinda feels halfway between an E34 and an E46 now. The thing that really strikes me is how eager to turn in it is. Normally I drive the E34 with aggressive steering movements because the initial steering response is soft. These pucks make that initial steering tip-in response more immediate, like I said, halfway between E34/E46 lol. For my car (very lowered) the corrected lower arm angle makes the chassis turn-in feel more immediate as well. Less time spent rolling first and taking a set, more time loading the outside front and just pushing the nose in. I actually bought softer front springs to try now because the reduction in roll is so apparent. The dynamic camber benefits of the better arm angle won't be proven until I have some track time to show tire wear, but it's definitely going to change things.
2) What wheels will this fit under?
Apologies for not taking pics here, but there are clearance concerns. 18" wheels are advised; 17" will hit the LCA unless you run very low offsets to clear the barrel away from (now very low) the ball joint. If you run wide front wheels, 9.5J +7 or 9J +13 is the minimum backspacing (highest offset) you can run before the barrel of the wheel hits the tierod. MPars (18x8 +13 or +20) should clear.
3) What other problems?
If you have big brakes that required cutting the shield (see last picture), hot rotors will cook the LCA ball joint. I need to get a shield for those and I suggest you do the same.
So far, so sooooooooo good. Upcoming plan is to get the front springs (8kg/mm, down from 9) in, remove the rear bar (both making the car more compliant), and lower the rear ride height to level out the rake. Radwood SoCal is two weekends from now and after that I'll be looking to get back out to Buttonwillow!
Member
That's very cool - but we need photos of this -4.5 cambergang!
I still think this is great pioneering, and that you're making track car lemonade out of the very street-focused lemon chassis... but anytime I see giant "bump steer" plates, I can't help but think of how much better it would be to raise the spindle itself, and retain the factory shock travel (ala air cooled 911). I put bump steer in quotations because these plates of yours are doing way more than correcting geometry.
Any truly lowered air cooled 911 gets the suspension attachment points (aka spindle) re-welded higher to the shock body, to retain appropriate geometry - but without sacrificing travel. This has always been a near-impossible wishlist item of mine, mainly given the design of our spindles/general McPherson strut architecture, and lack of inner fender room (911s have loads of this). Furthermore, you don't really need more travel for your mission with this car. But on the street? It'd be so superior to anything out there currently...
Back to the armchair.
Member
I'm with you that a proper drop spindle is the way to go (it'd be much lighter) but this is the same as a drop spindle in terms of geometry. The E34 strut tube is silly long for the actual travel that the car needs, so even cheap coilovers have enough travel. What most people think is the damper bottoming out is usually just their bump stops being too tall (or in the case of Bilstein, internal bump stops) or the original top hat design simply being retarded and not leaving enough shaft space to provide travel. Even though there is plenty of strut tower room to move the attachment point up lol...
Even as a pure road car you never need more travel than the spring will actually use. If you're going to be low, you still have to keep the tires off the frame, or frame off the ground, so you wind up at minimum with a 7-8kg/mm spring up front. That takes up about 3" of travel under typical "spirited" driving on the street. As long as the damper can supply that, how the spindle looks is pretty moot (ignoring unsprung weight). If you want to be low AND soft, with infinite travel you'll just end up hitting frame-to-ground - you have to limit suspension travel before that happens. The only use case for long-travel suspension is long-travel ride height, at which point you don't need a drop spindle.
Member
I suppose "enough" is subjective here, but especially for your purposes (and for most folks) the extra travel would be totally useless. That's also interesting that the E34 strut tube is long enough, I really hadn't measured or looked from my armchair
I fully agree there.
Great points w/ the rest of your explanation; I see the real value of longer travel in lowered street cars, keeping them compliant and able to absorb daily driven bumps better - but it's also probably very much a diminishing return. I think reworking the geometry in more major ways would come first, in terms of ROI. It is interesting to note how many of the high dollar restomods these days (anything from Redux Leichtbau M3s, to a host of near $1mil air cooled hot rods) employ what are essentially rally dampers to get low but maintain compliance over crap roads - though that is not just travel, but dampening sophistication, as well.
Sorry for the offshoot - love what you're doing here. Any more suspension links or arms in your future plans?
Member
Especially in a production McPherson car, damping sophistication 1000%. You have up/down loads to contend with while eating side loads in the strut shaft and piston. Add hard constraints over how much distance is between the tire tread and the upper frame rail - not an easy problem. What a big off-road or rally damper can do for us isn't give more travel, but to give a lot of space in the tube to fit good hardware and a lot of fluid. Fluid for heat consistency, but also large channels tend to give better response to inputs (analogous to why I hate that shortened steering arm people use on E31's to quicken the ratio).
Unfortunately probably not gonna have more arms/links for now, Dave is taking some time off to sort out his situation and I am still planning on retiring this car as soon as it does 58's at Buttonwillow. Given how good it feels now I think the time is there, might just need a few more sets of tires and more seat time before that happens. If anything I want to implement a little underbody hidden aero and that'll get us there for sure lol.
Last edited by circuit.heart; 11-09-2022 at 08:21 PM.
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