Member
With the external cooler - make sure you use a thermostat - at good pace my oil was dropping in temperature. I ended up removing the cooler/thermostat setup.
Unhelpful Member
I know what it's like to try and race a build vs a baby in the oven - we're rooting for you. I don't live in SJ anymore but hope to still catch you at a track day
Oil temp dropping even during a 20 min track session? What ambient temp?Originally Posted by 5mall5nail5
Member
Yeah, because the cooling requirements are so low (vs my other turbo track car) I really don't need much cooling. Just using a stock S54 housing with line adapters to -10AN.
If it's a super high speed track with coasting corners like Big Willow/WSIR I could totally see the oil temp not staying high enough. Will have to catch you around when the car's back up and running, I now have no choice but to finish it haha.
Member
Not a track session, just spirited street driving. I think a thermostat is necessary and the S54 housing may have one.
Member
That's exactly it - when I'd get the oil/water up to temp (my standalone limits RPM until oil over X) as soon as I'd start driving around it'd drop and drop. I realized then I needed to slow the flow down into the cooler and or put a thermostat in. I bought a pegasus external thermostate but I had been driving around hard for a while and never saw offensive oil temps and figured I'd double back on the oil cooler as it was just more lines and coolers to get hit by debris and cause issues. Maybe on a car like OP, but not without a t-stat.
Member
Yup, a lot of people remove the S54 housing's internal thermostat to get more flow (ha, S54 = heat). My thought is the opposite, I need to avoid overcooling the oil.
I have another track car, a turbo 2018 Civic that absolutely cannot have a thermostat in the oil cooler circuit. Even with all the stops uncorked the oil temp still tops out at 258F, new cars are just too highly stressed.
Last edited by circuit.heart; 03-04-2021 at 01:52 AM.
Member
Good updates - I hope this new 6 treats you better than the previous few
We've been testing Motul 300V in 5w-40, in S38B36 and B38s, for cumulative tens of thousands of miles now. A different ballgame than an M5x, but it's working so well in these old race motors that I have to think a track-focused M5x would love it.
I'll have a Blackstone soon for 7,500mi old 300V with 4x track days on it from my B38, but the behavior on track was ideal for S38s, and in both street and track, it warms up damn quickly and then never spikes, and cools quickly back in the pits or garage. Our track days so far have not topped 85F ambient, but this summer I will likely get to see how it does in temps equivalent to summer sessions at Willow.
As always with the oil topic, take it or leave it - just thought I would mention it.
We've also seen the same with modern cars. We're the only '90s era cars at these BMWCCA track days.
Member
Holy moly! What weight do you run in that thing?
Member
If its like most the japanese engines it'll be like 0w20 or 0w30
MORΩN ΛABIA
BMW CCA Member
I meant also what brand oil. I've not tracked this car and only very briefly tracked previous cars, but for what my opinion's worth, my engines felt and sounded happiest with Amsoil European 5W30 or 5W40. Castrol Edge, even the German stuff, got darker quicker and gave me lifter issues twice. Mobil 1 0W40 felt ok but seemed more prone to leaking.
What ECU are you using?
Last edited by moroza; 03-04-2021 at 08:02 PM.
Member
Oil turning black is not much of an indicator. Now a blackstone labs analysis, that will tell you what’s going on.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Member
Most GDI turbo engines run 5W-30 - the L15B7 is no exception. That's just what these tiny turbo engines do if you seriously push the car.
Motul 8100 and Joe Gibbs DT40 are on the list of things to try, but neither is cheap nor easy to get. I don't think the oil was ever a failure point for my past engines - I normally just run Castrol Edge and change it a LOT.
Nothing special planned on the ECU side - I'd like to convert to OBD2 and use an MS41.2 or something, but ye olde 413 + chip never caused me any issues. Cheap, works, send it.
Progress on the engine little by little. The correct chain came in for the oil pump, so now you can see the PRD sprocket to go with the oil pump. I actually don't like this part at all now that I've seen it in person. The tolerances on the center hole are awful, it was obviously cut by a laser or waterjet instead of being drilled for the correct hole diameter. I got it centered as best as possible and torqued it the hell down. Brand new guides and chain next, as a matter of course.
044 by Brian Ma, on Flickr
Couldn't find the spec'd torque sequence for the timing cover...... took a best guess using my engineering degree and went 10ft-lbs in 5 increments lmao. It's straight, but damn did it take forever.
045 by Brian Ma, on Flickr
Speaking of forever... I've actually never built an engine 100% on my own before, and realized that I've always had a helping hand to get the head lined up and NOT scratch up the freshly milled surface. Could not save my life to figure out how to pop the head on normally, especially with the timing chain flopping around and threatening to fall down! So (wish I had hands to take pics) 1) installed the head studs into the block, 2) turned the block 90deg, then 3) hung the cylinder head on the head studs for a second while lining up the dowels. Was finally able to seat the head on the dowels so only at that point did the engine flip back upright, and I tapped the head down with a deadblow.
046 by Brian Ma, on Flickr
There's that fancy cam-follower-magnet tool that helps you hold the lifters in the cam trays... I guess it's nice for disassembly, but sufficient assembly lube keeps those suckers in perfectly fine (didn't even have to act fast) and the cam trays dropped in, zero drama. Lifters were stolen from the old M62 actually, they felt brand new.
047 by Brian Ma, on Flickr
S52 camshafts dropped in and torqued down. Don't have the camshaft timing blocks till tomorrow, so tonight the orientation is just to make sure cyl 1 and 6 valves aren't pressed.
048 by Brian Ma, on Flickr
I think I'm missing an e-Torx bolt for the upper timing chain guide though, F me lol.
Last edited by circuit.heart; 06-22-2021 at 05:24 PM.
Old BMW's FTW
I forget if I've already asked, but will you be adding the oil pump chain tensioner, or just going with the reinforced pump + sprocket?
I'm stoked to see it all coming together, good work! Makes me want to take apart my S50 and rebuild it, even though there's technically nothing wrong with it (other than it sitting for 15+ years).
1995 525i 5-speed - Thread
Member
Always neat to see what parts are common! Any concerns running the old lifters in a new cam tray? I've heard that's generally considered a no-no, but have no personal experience to back it up.
Member
No tensioner this time, the chain's brand new and the sprocket itself is already tight. I'll leave this one as is since breaking this shaft is probably impossible.
BMW shares as many parts as they can, I'm sure if they could've gotten away with using the same valves between M60 and M50 they would have. Retainers, keepers, springs, valve stem seals, and I think even guides are shared between several motors, not to mention sometimes bearings and seals.
I'm missing a few bolts for the engine, so I tackled a side project, Subaru BRZ leather seats into an E34I picked out these seats a long time ago as they are OEM (safe), cheap ($225 this pair), hold you incredibly well (this is a track car), and light (equal to FRP buckets + steel mounts + sliders) to boot! But - Subaru leather looks cheap, the red stitching doesn't help, the alcantara shoulder pads look out of place, etc. It's just an ugly seat.
That is, if you install them as-is.
049 by Brian Ma, on Flickr
My plan was to mask off the central alcantara section to maintain the nice, soft grip they provide, but then generously dye all the leather, and the shoulder alcanatara, to "classic BMW black". Sticking the tape to the fabric is actually a lot easier than I thought it'd be, 3M blue tape can just be shoved into the gaps and seams and it sticks perfectly. Next, a test coat of dye on the seat back where mistakes would be less noticeable:
050 by Brian Ma, on Flickr
Crappy pic aside you can already see that the dye is a much richer shade of black, makes the leather look less cheap. Proceeded to do the front:
051 by Brian Ma, on Flickr
And after one coat, can already see the awful red stitching is basically black. The shoulder inserts are now more of a suede texture and contrast less with the leather (less jarring), much improved.
052 by Brian Ma, on Flickr
Did the second coat of dye this morning and it looks fantastic. This is BMW leather now.
053 by Brian Ma, on Flickr
Installation is already 90% solved, I'm just waiting on some bolts to arrive and then we are sending this into the car probably this weekend!
Last edited by circuit.heart; 06-22-2021 at 05:27 PM.
Member
Top of the engine all buttoned up now. Oddly, this new upper timing chain guide (BMW dealership purchase) is black, I've never seen this before. It's dense though and doesn't feel flimsy, sooo send it in?
054 by Brian Ma, on Flickr
Thanking my lucky stars I found a pristine M52 at the junkyard to pick off the sprockets and Vanos unit. These parts were super clean and super smooth, I just gave them a quick wipe and some assembly lube to make sure there was no dust before installing.
055 by Brian Ma, on Flickr
Ignore the wrong bolt in the top right of my Vanos - fixed that with another quick junkyard trip. The lady at the counter and I are good friends now, didn't have to pay for any of these small parts lol.
056 by Brian Ma, on Flickr
One of the valve cover studs in the center row decided it wouldn't hold 7 ft-lbs of torque. Screw it, little extra Hondabond underneath it and ignore
057 by Brian Ma, on Flickr
The pièce de résistance. I LOVE this shitty valve cover more than I should. It's cleaned out underneath, nothing's wrong with it... just, nobody is going to suspect that it's anything more than a stock 525i. I'm going to enjoy trolling M3 owners with this engine (remember, stock M52 manifolds too)
058 by Brian Ma, on Flickr
Last edited by circuit.heart; 06-22-2021 at 05:29 PM.
Member
Back to the seats for a minute. The dyed BRZ leather came out just about perfect, and the E34 buckle I found can be disassembled to fit right onto the studs Subaru provides for you to mount a belt buckle.
Cut:
059 by Brian Ma, on Flickr
Split the plastic off and disassemble:
060 by Brian Ma, on Flickr
Drill the steel plate end to 10mm:
061 by Brian Ma, on Flickr
Remove BRZ buckle (clip the wires or rip out, up to you) and install E34 buckle:
062 by Brian Ma, on Flickr
Throw seats in car.
063 by Brian Ma, on Flickr
I'm still not done yet, I need a nice strong steel bracket to bolt the end of the seat belt to, but I think I have space to mount that directly to the VAC floor brackets. But, just look at this! Need to get daytime pics once torqued down: it has room to clear on all sides, it sits lower than stock, it only looks a liiiiiiiiittle bit out of place, with a different headrest design I think I could totally pass this off as a newer BMW sport seat.
It's gonna be great paired with my E46 steering wheel. Sleeper race car
Last edited by circuit.heart; 06-22-2021 at 05:30 PM.
Member
love the clapped out valve cover aesthetic. I probably missed it, but what are you estimating for power output?
Member
Generally speaking I think people get up to 230-235whp out of M/S52 frankensteins with proper manifold, headers and exhaust. I'd like to be optimistic about mine since it is higher compression, low parasitic drag, lightweight flywheel and ATI damper to boot, but really I don't expect much. It just has to survive.
I got the seats done though, it's bloody sexy.
The outside front rail tab fouls against the E34's seat hook, so cut some metal off (I left it hanging for illustration only. Cut it off) and the BRZ seat 100% lines up to the holes in the VAC floor plates. That's the only mod though! I didn't open up a single hole in those seat rails.
064 by Brian Ma, on Flickr
The outside front tab needs to be bolted to the outermost row of holes in the outer VAC plate. The inner front tab needs to be bolted to the innermost row of holes in the inner VAC plate. Sorry I missed taking this picture. Bolting it this way compensates for the offset tab, and perfectly aligns the seat rails with the outermost row of holes on both VAC plates. Holes marked (crappily) in this image.
065 by Brian Ma, on Flickr
I am a short guy, and all legs, so I bolted the seat rails as far forward on the VAC plates as they'd go. Which looks like this on the backside of the seat:
066 by Brian Ma, on Flickr
Once again, the rails should be lined up 100% with the outermost row of holes. Confirm this, and send the bolt in.
067 by Brian Ma, on Flickr
On the outside seat rail, you need a smaller washer than what VAC provides to fit in the BRZ's seat rail's hole. No biggie, find something appropriate and put the bolt in. The seat belt eye end, as my hand indicates, should be bolted to the underside of the VAC plate, and make sure the belt's not rubbing on anything metal. This turned out to be so easy though, and finally, plug in the E34's seat belt buckle wiring back into the body harness so the car knows when you've clicked the seat belt in.
Final seating position is almost identical to when I had Sparco Grid II FIA buckets in the car. Just as low, I can just see over the top of my 385mm steering wheel. Sexy.
068 by Brian Ma, on Flickr
Last edited by circuit.heart; 06-22-2021 at 05:34 PM.
Member
Back to engine stuff. I was tinkering around the water fittings and realized that the "coolant connector" is the same thread spec as the M52's dual coolant temp sensor. Ok, cool - so instead of needing to use the M52 sensor, a Turner Y-harness, and having to plug the M52's coolant connector, I can just thread two M50 water temp sensors in. I believe that the M50's two temp sensors have the same guts, just different threads (I mean, I swapped connectors on them before, car didn't run any differently), not expecting issues here.
069 by Brian Ma, on Flickr
Low-key regret not getting a used S54 oil filter housing; the newness kinda exposes my lie that it's just an old M50.
070 by Brian Ma, on Flickr
Going around to the other side of the engine, new exhaust studs. I hate that I've gotten good at doing these.
071 by Brian Ma, on Flickr
Modified M52 headers (secondary air holes welded up) popped on so that we can test fit the Magnaflow SpecE46 Y-pipe!
072 by Brian Ma, on Flickr
Judging on appearance, clearance is going to be "barely" at best. The GS6-53BZ is a big gearbox, about the same length as the engine it's bolted to. The puts the guibo just in front of the merge collector, and the transmission rubber mounts sit right under said guibo. To make maximum clearance, I whipped up a low-profile crossmember design and sent it to a friend for cut/bend/weld. We're at the final steps of this now:
073 by Brian Ma, on Flickr
Expecting to have to grind down parts of the ribs in order to clear the Y-pipe... but hopefully that does the trick and we don't have to lengthen the Y-pipe itself. I don't want more low-end torque, only top end
Last edited by circuit.heart; 06-22-2021 at 05:41 PM.
Member
Little bits of progress per week. Thermostat housing was waiting for a gasket, which was blocking the Vanos line install, now both of those are done and we can move on to some fun with sensors.
074 by Brian Ma, on Flickr
I've had this Bimmerworld sensor block for god knows how long... but it's finally found a home! Also had to pick up a VAC banjo bolt adapter to stick the M50 Vanos line onto the S54 oil filter housing. Really taking my chances here using a brand new Vanos line, fingers crossed I don't need FCP Euro to warranty this guy.
075 by Brian Ma, on Flickr
Looks funny to me with the AN adapter fittings, oil pressure switch, and an external pressure and temp sensor all Xmas-treed up in the same place. But this is how we're going to get the critical oil info I need to figure out what weight oil we need to run in this engine. (And, whether or not I need to hook up an Accusump!)
076 by Brian Ma, on Flickr
Those sensors' leads are gonna be fun to route all the way back to the cabin, but at least I know where they're going!
077 by Brian Ma, on Flickr
So these 3D-printed vent gauge pods definitely feel flimsy... pressing the gauges in feels like it's straining them. Good thing I bought a backup pair that I can reinforce if needed. Cabin's going to look great though and the gauges will be far easier to read near eye-level than down below where most people put gauges in the E34.
078 by Brian Ma, on Flickr
Last edited by circuit.heart; 06-22-2021 at 05:48 PM.
Old BMW's FTW
Neat-o!
Random side note, have you heard of N54 exhaust studs? They've got a nice little e-torx tip at the end that makes installing them an absolute breeze. Funny story, I made Kurtis install OEM M50 studs one time because I wanted to watch him complain, and then afterwards I told him about the N54 studs and he was suddenly mad at me for some reason... lol.
1995 525i 5-speed - Thread
Member
Yep, I use those on my build.
- - - Updated - - -
They look like PLA. Not a huge deal but they might warp quite a bit with sun/closed car heat.
Member
Feels more like ABS (less tacky-feeling than PLA). Either way I am expecting it to fail, so I pre-emptively have an extra pair to 3D scan, reinforce in CAD and re-print if need be.
Member
Not much happening on the engine front this week, waiting for the welded oil pan to come back and looking for an A/C bracket (I lost mine).
I put the car on the ground for once to check the seating position/posture, aaaaand ran into the classic FRS/BRZ problem of having the headrest shove your head into your chest. So I called up friends (thanks Danny!) for some measurements and took a $30 gamble of my own - E36 headrests can be adapted to fit into the BRZ seat. Awesome.
079 by Brian Ma, on Flickr
Just needs a 12mm ID/14mm OD tube to adapt to the correct post diameter, then I will need to cut some notches in that for adjustment and locking. No more awkward looking and feeling headrest!
Last edited by circuit.heart; 06-22-2021 at 05:50 PM.
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