Charcoal Canister EVAP Delete Q&A

[golgo13]

I'm looking to delete my charcoal canister from the spare tire well because my car is a dedicated track car.

How are you guys VTA your gas tank lines? I'm a visual learner, so I need to see how people are capping the three lines and then putting an upright filter on them. I'm not sure which line is which, etc.

Thanks!

[olemiss540]

James Clay weighed in here https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...ster-for-track

I just tore it out, plugged all manifold and tb connections, and then cut the blue line the runs to the tank so it could VTA.

[golgo13]

Good stuff. I'll try and save all the lines I can and just close them for now since I'll eventually need it for smog stuff later if I sell the car.

Sounds like you just vent the blue line and stick a filter on it and then cap all the black vacuum lines.

[olemiss540]

Yup.

[BlackHawkRacing]

I also followed James' advice. Here is a good post that details it via picture. My issue right now is that it take me 20 min to add 5 gallon of fuel to the car. I have a few ideas as to why this is but really wont get to test them out until January. Those ideas are:

1. I added a roll over valve in place of the K&N filter James mentioned (end of item 6 in the picture on the right); i am wondering if this is getting pushed shut by the escaping air and preventing it from venting properly during refueling.
2. Other idea is that the tube I used for item 6 is too small and doesn't allow enough air to escape; to test this i am gonna pull item 8 from picture on the right and vent that to atmosphere and see if that improves my fuel filling speed. If that is the case, I will add a filter to the end of this and plug the hole where it enters the filler neck.

Second week of April 09:

I go to VIR to help crew for Bill Heumann. Meet a lot of great people. And learn a lot too. I pay especial attention to the IP and JP cars. "So much to do and learn", I say to my self. But everybody is so helpful answering my never-ending questions. Which make things so much easier and interesting.

One of them, is Jason Marks, from Bimmerworld, who reviews my fuel system diagram and helps me a great deal by marking off the items not needed in a race car.

As soon as I get back home, I go work on the drawing board:







Many, many thanks Jason.

I try to make sure that eliminating the carbon canister and the expansion tank is legal in Prepared class, but the rules aren't clear about this. So I submit a rule-clarification request.

[golgo13]

That's awesome, thank you! This is EXACTLY what I needed. I looked at the canister again last night and it had a large black line and two blue lines, which confused me.

I was just going to stick an air filter, but I like the idea of having a roll-over valve. That seems way smart.

[aeronaut]

I also followed James' advice. Here is a good post that details it via picture. My issue right now is that it take me 20 min to add 5 gallon of fuel to the car. I have a few ideas as to why this is but really wont get to test them out until January. Those ideas are:

1. I added a roll over valve in place of the K&N filter James mentioned (end of item 6 in the picture on the right); i am wondering if this is getting pushed shut by the escaping air and preventing it from venting properly during refueling.
2. Other idea is that the tube I used for item 6 is too small and doesn't allow enough air to escape; to test this i am gonna pull item 8 from picture on the right and vent that to atmosphere and see if that improves my fuel filling speed. If that is the case, I will add a filter to the end of this and plug the hole where it enters the filler neck.

HA!!! Yea, same very slow fuel fill problem here. And, when I disconnect the fuel discriminator, it fills fine, so I'm convinced my fuel discriminator valve is closing due to the rush of air on fill. I have a simple-ish fix I'm pretty sure will work.

[BlackHawkRacing]

Lol, glad I am not the only one. Look forward to your fix; if that is indeed is my issue I was going to just put the filter on the end and call it but would like to keep the valve if possible. What discriminator did you use?

[aeronaut]

I'm using one of Radiums Dynamic Safety Vents. I wouldn't buy another (the plastic ball in the vent was either oversized, or swelled from the fuel, and would stick closed. I replaced that ball with a aluminum one that also floats in fuel.)

Here's my hopeful fix.
https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...4#post30601354

[golgo13]

Link to the Radium one, por favor?

[aeronaut]

Hmmm..they had one designed for external use, but I don't see it anymore.
I used one made for a fuel cell, and fabricated a canister for it.

http://www.radiumauto.com/Dynamic-Sa...ves-P1508.aspx

[golgo13]

Here's how a local guy did it:

[aeronaut]

Yea, and I got mine working fairly well by a similar method. But, no matter what I did I'd get between a little or a lot of slosh out when tank was 1/2 full. So, added the anti-slosh anti roll over valve, and that started a new set of problems.

[BlackHawkRacing]

Yea, and I got mine working fairly well by a similar method. But, no matter what I did I'd get between a little or a lot of slosh out when tank was 1/2 full. So, added the anti-slosh anti roll over valve, and that started a new set of problems.

Thinking out loud, you think if you added the expansion tank back and ran a breather filter off the expansion it would handle the sloshing? .

[aeronaut]

Yep, I think it would.

[BlackHawkRacing]

plan C then lol

[olemiss540]

Maybe I am an idiot but why not just cut the blue line and leave it in place?

This what I dis.

[aeronaut]

I'm thinking back...but isn't the blue line connected to the evap canister up under the hood?
I've removed that too.

[golgo13]

I want to remove the charcoal canister from the spare tire well because I'm going to cut it out but I need to leave the lines and the expansion tank for future use.

I'll be putting in the E46M charcoal canister when I go to CARB certify my car here in CA for S54 smog in a few years when (if) I decide to sell it.

[golgo13]

I wonder if I'm overthinking this.

Can't I just connect these two lines on the expansion tank? Fuel vapor would just go into the Intake Manifold?

[aeronaut]

Possible complications?
I'm not sure how the expansion tank works (valves, one way flow, 2 way, etc), but, the manifold creates a vacuum, and at idle usually around 20mmHg. So would you be pulling vacuum on the fuel tank/system?
And you may be effectively adding a ton of volume to the manifold/vacuum system. SO....will it effect the other vacuum controlled items? Brake booster?

[golgo13]

After poking a few friends that are techs, it sounds like the expansion tank holds liquid fuel. That means connecting those lines together would suck liquid fuel into the intake manifold.



I think I just need to take the time to look at all the parts on the car and where they go so I can see what makes sense to connect, cap or just bypass.

I think I want to take the vent line and run it up the neck of the gas tank, stick an inline filter in it and then cap it will a rollover valve like this guy:

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/tnk-vvr

[BlackHawkRacing]

THat is the part I am using on my car for the vent. I did some googling the other night and it says it needs to be mounted ABOVE the fuel fill neck; mine is currently below. Might be what my issue is.

[golgo13]

THat is the part I am using on my car for the vent. I did some googling the other night and it says it needs to be mounted ABOVE the fuel fill neck; mine is currently below. Might be what my issue is.

Alright, I'll be sure to route my line higher than the gas cap.

[golgo13]

Okay, I think this is all I need to do: