new clucth destroyed? Possibley malfunctioning CDV?

[wamcneil]

Hi all. I'm working on a 2003 325i manual that we bought with a bad clutch. No good information available from the previous owner.
The car made a clacking noise when push in the clutch.
We got the transmission out of it this afternoon and now I'm really perplexed.
Apparently things got very hot inside the bellhousing. Pivot pin is melted and throw-out bearing housing partially melted and rotated 90 deg. I expected to find a worn-out clutch and spotty-looking worn flywheel face, but strangely, only the disc is shredded (~4.75mm thick now).
This car appears to have had a new Luk clutch kit and new dual-mass flywheel installed. There's still a milled finish visible on the flywheel surface. It's not worn smooth. The pressure plate surface does show burning, but doesn't look worn down at all.
It really looks like somebody installed a new flywheel and clutch kit, and then somehow immediately shredded the clutch disc.
The pressure plate and disc have the same Luk part numbers as the replacement clutch kit that I ordered: LuK 623 3438 000.
And the flywheel has part number "415 0122 11" etched on it, which makes it look to be the right flywheel Luk P/N 415 0122 100. I've found multiple pictures of the flywheel P/N 415 0122 100 that actually have "415 0122 11" stamped on it.
So, I'm pretty sure the parts I pulled off of the car are the right parts. And I'm trying to figure out what could wind up shredding a new clutch disc.
About the only thing I'm coming up with is a malfunctioning delay valve.
I'm a little scared to put this thing back together without figuring out what caused an apparently new clutch setup to fail.
Can y'all think of any failure modes that would shred a clutch disc in a newish clutch setup???
Thanks,
Walter
IMG_8934.jpgIMG_8935.jpgIMG_8936.jpgIMG_8931.jpg

[Stück]

The pivot pin ( and release bearing from the looks of it ) melted due to the friction of the release fork against the pressure plate with an expended clutch disc allowing it to over stroke.

Replace the clutch kit complete, with a new flywheel, release fork, pivot and slave cylinder.

That flywheel does not look new to me, and I suspect someone installed a new clutch kit over a wore out flywheel with excessive axial or radial play in the hub. The appearance of the friction surface is only one factor in overall wear.

DMF's on these cars have a usable life span of 80-100k. If you need a new clutch, you need a new flywheel. Failure to carry out the repair professionally results in failures as pictured.

[wamcneil]

Thanks.
I'm with you on the repair... Mainly trying to figure out how this failure happened. I really don't think it was normal wear.
That's definitely not the original clutch and flywheel. They're Luk replacement parts. Somebody also messed up the pedal and slave cylinder.
What would happen if some hack removed the spring retainer on the SAC BEFORE installation and then just cranked down on the pressure plate?
Bolt holes in the pressure plate have a lot of wear from the bolts. I can hang a pick on the little shoulders where the bolts sat.
What I'm thinking is maybe some hack removed the retainer before installing the pressure plate. That might explain the bolt heads wearing into the steel as they were cranked all the way down against the spring pressure. And that might also destroy the diaphragm spring?
In the pressure plate's relaxed state, the fingers are just 6mm above that ring, and sit about 11mm back inside the pressure plate. I can push the fingers down with just my thumbs. I can almost install the spring retainer with my fingers. That doesn't seem right to me...
Is it plausible that some hack just removed the spring retainer before clutch installation???

[wamcneil]

Forgot to attach pictures
bolt-hole.jpgPP.jpgPP2.jpg

[Stück]

LUK made the original DMF these cars left the factory with, so the presence of their logo does not immediately mean its been renewed at some point.

I've seen client cars come in multiple times with the shipping lock removed prior to torquing the pressure plate as the installer ( often the client ) lacked the required centering tools and the generic loop end once readily available don't work of course. This leaves the clutch in a state where it will with either a very shortened life, or it slips from the first drive.

You would have the drive the car with a noticeably slipping clutch for quite some time against any semblance of common sense to wear out a new clutch. I guess that is an entirely possible scenario, but it requires a considerable amount of stupid over a prolonged period of time.

[wamcneil]

... This leaves the clutch in a state where it will with either a very shortened life, or it slips from the first drive.

You would have the drive the car with a noticeably slipping clutch for quite some time against any semblance of common sense to wear out a new clutch. I guess that is an entirely possible scenario, but it requires a considerable amount of stupid over a prolonged period of time.

Yes! I think it was exactly that level of stupid going on here. I think this clutch slipped from the first drive and was shredded in short order... Then the car sat for a year.

[Sapote]

The flywheel looks recently replaced, but the PP looks bad with 3 auto adjust springs all expanded to max -- show the friction side of the PP, but if it's recently replaced then PO did it wrong and released the springs before installation, and this caused thep PP not able to press firmly on the clutch, causing burnt disk and heavy clutch pedal.
I would just replace PP and clutch disk and plastic pivot pin (not need to use brass or SS after market pin).

[wamcneil]

Thanks guys.
The PP face has a lot of heat discoloration, but it also has the mill marks on the face: not worn sooth.
We'll take a gamble on the flywheel, but everything else in the bellhousing is new. Plus the slave cylinder that was damaged when the throwout bearing seized.
The transmission has been back in for a week, but we've been waiting for more parts before we can try it out.

[Sapote]

Thanks guys.
The PP face has a lot of heat discoloration, but it also has the mill marks on the face: not worn sooth.
We'll take a gamble on the flywheel, but everything else in the bellhousing is new. Plus the slave cylinder that was damaged when the throwout bearing seized.
The transmission has been back in for a week, but we've been waiting for more parts before we can try it out.

New PP? then why the 3 springs already expanded to max? You need to reset the springs to the position as shipped new, then release them after it's bolted down.

[wamcneil]

All of the pictures are of the OLD parts. I've got a new clutch kit installed that definitely does not have the springs expanded. The last picture with the shipping lock is just to show how much I can insert the retainer (from the new part) with the PP in it's relaxed state. I think that is indicative of the old PP having been installed after the shipping lock was removed and wrecking the old PP.
We got it all together and really wish I had taken Stuck's advice to also replace the flywheel...
The clutch action is fine now, but the motor bounces all over the place at idle. So new flywheel is on order... This is a poor high-school kid's first car so we're pretty strongly motivated to not buy unnecessary parts.
It's a big bummer that we have to cough up the money for a new flywheel, but I suppose the good news is that the whole procedure should be a lot easier the 2nd time... and now all of the parts are clean so it won't be such a dirty job!

[Stück]

Been there done that. While its not always in the preferred budgets replacing complete systems with similar wear is always best practice.

I've replaced literally hundreds of worn out clutches, and really it is quite uncommon for the lines / milling marks to be worn completely off the flywheel or pressure plate friction surfaces.

Outside the bounds of the simple replace it all work method, BMW has stringent specs for permissible play. SIB210110 can be referenced on this.

ANY longitudinal play between the primary and secondary plates renders the flywheel expended IMO. Grasp the secondary plate (the friction plate) at 9 and 3, rock it side to side away/towards you. Any play in the bearing between them? Scrap it. BMW does allow for up to 5mm of play here on later model cars, but that has never applied to these older cars and their flywheel construction.

[wamcneil]

Thanks. It's a bummer but a good learning experience for the kid.
Here's a picture of my old pressure plate after removed from the flywheel (left), vs another luk SAC (right- different model, but similar) that I took from a youtube video.
There's definitely something bad-wrong with my old pressure plate...
clutch2.jpg

[Sapote]

We got it all together and really wish I had taken Stuck's advice to also replace the flywheel...
The clutch action is fine now, but the motor bounces all over the place at idle.

How much the rotational plays on the old flywheel -- 1" or 4" plays?

[CPHES]

Motor mounts?

[bluptgm3]

How do you plan to reset the pressure play to R-n-R the flywheel?

[Sapote]

Motor mounts?

How do motor mounts affect the clutch operation? Maybe gear shifting but not clutch.