Fxx vs E60 reliability comparison.

[martinav]

Friends,

I have had a 2005 545i E60 which has the N62 V8. This car has been broken and sitting way more than it has been running. Electrical system reliability has been aweful. I am curious how a newer F10 would compare in reliability. You can get one with less than 100k miles pretty cheap. Of course, I got mine pretty cheeap too. I love the idea of a Lexus GS F, but they are 3-5x the cost of a similar 5-series compared to age and miles. The Lexus is certainly more expensive and more reliable (allegedly), but you can buy a LOT of parts and get turbocharger refurbishments for the cost difference.

My E60 is currently running, with a few minor codes (can you reeeally get rid of all of them??). Question is whether to sell it while its actually running, spend a ton more and get the Lexus, or try again with a newer F10 BMW.

Anyone care to comment? Basically, using the E60 as the base of comparison.

Thank you,
Rod

[White94RX]

In my opinion, they've become more reliable.

[martinav]

Let me be a little more specific.

I currently have a 2005 e60 545i with N62 engine. This is the cost profile:

Purchased for $12,500 with about 80000 miles. It was in fantastic condition, with no codes.

After 1 year, I had to replace the IVM module, DME, and air conditional compressor. All of this was about $4000.

Currently, I am consuming coolant at a rate that I'm sure the coolant transfer tube is likely failed.
I had one instance of a VERY large amount of smoke. I replaced the block vents, which were torn, but I do know of the valve-stem seal problems with this 4.4L V8.

So, in the near future, I forsee:

$1,000 for transfer tube (I do the work)
$500-$1000 for valve stem seals.

Current miles, 95,000.

So, if I were to purchase a 2011 550i F10. If I also purchase it for about $12,500 and 90,000 miles... what might I expect in the following few years?

Thanks!

Rod

[White94RX]

Do NOT buy any N63 equipped vehicle. It is the least reliable, biggest piece of crap BMW has ever assembled. There was a class action lawsuit over it.

So, comparing an E60 550 to an F10 550 is like pooping in both hands and deciding which one to eat. You’re much better off with a 535 and tuning it if you want more power. The N63 is great when it runs right. But cost of repairs is out of this world.

And you mention 500-1k for valve stem seals? Not happening unless you’re doing them yourself.


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[martinav]

@White94RX,

Great reply, thank you.

That was what I was after in my comparison. Do you have a 535i? I think the F10 is a twin turbo inline 6 as it was with the E60? There was some wastegate leakage issues with those in the E60 era. F10 is not the case? I was thinking this was about a $5k for a turbo-job.

BTW, yes. If the valve stem seals get done, it will be me. The $500-1k is based on if I can rent the in-place tool and do it without an engine pull. There is no way I can afford someone to do that any other way. Its me, or I sell it as scrap.

Also, I absolutely love my 545i. It was my assessment at the time that it would be cheaper to maintain and mechanically less complex than the 535i with turbos. What I did not consider was the complexity of the electronics that led to some very extensive troubleshooting, and several months off-line. Can you make any judgement on the electronics in an F10 vs E60? That was the surprise for me. I have owned 3 E34's. Those were great. I still have one, and its running ok at almost $200k miles. I dont know if I can afford to run my E60 even to 120k miles. Its been a lot and I'm only at 90k.

[ezaircon4jc]

@White94RX,

Great reply, thank you.

That was what I was after in my comparison. Do you have a 535i? I think the F10 is a twin turbo inline 6 as it was with the E60? There was some wastegate leakage issues with those in the E60 era. F10 is not the case? I was thinking this was about a $5k for a turbo-job.

BTW, yes. If the valve stem seals get done, it will be me. The $500-1k is based on if I can rent the in-place tool and do it without an engine pull. There is no way I can afford someone to do that any other way. Its me, or I sell it as scrap.

Also, I absolutely love my 545i. It was my assessment at the time that it would be cheaper to maintain and mechanically less complex than the 535i with turbos. What I did not consider was the complexity of the electronics that led to some very extensive troubleshooting, and several months off-line. Can you make any judgement on the electronics in an F10 vs E60? That was the surprise for me. I have owned 3 E34's. Those were great. I still have one, and its running ok at almost $200k miles. I don't know if I can afford to run my E60 even to 120k miles. Its been a lot and I'm only at 90k.

We have 2 F10, 535i's; a 2012 w/almost 90K miles and a 2014 with just over 67K miles. They've both been electrically sound. The N55 is a single, twin-scrool turbo. Basically, half the cylinders spin a smaller section of the turbo and the other half the larger section. This goes a very long way eliminating turbo-lag. The N55 has fewer horses than your N62 but is a shade faster to 60. The N63tu is an improvement over the N63, but the turbos are in "the valley" so still "suffers" heat related seal and other plastic or rubber parts. The F10 probably isn't as nimble as your E60, but it doesn't shy away from canyon-carving. The 2012 F10 is our 1st BMW and I couldn't be more pleased. BMW have been making a straight-6 for what seems like centuries and have pretty much perfected it.

[White94RX]

He pretty much nailed it right there. The electronics have come along way. Many of the systems are simplified with less control modules. They seem to be more reliable from what I've seen. The N55 will still have the typical repairs: oil leaks, water pump, valve cover, etc.

[martinav]

He pretty much nailed it right there. The electronics have come along way. Many of the systems are simplified with less control modules. They seem to be more reliable from what I've seen. The N55 will still have the typical repairs: oil leaks, water pump, valve cover, etc.

I'm definitely not afraid of the basics like that. I just cant have the big silly stuff.

Ok, lets look at a specific example. If I found a 2015 535i with between 80,000-100,000miles, and I wanted to put another 100,000 miles on it... what repairs would you guess I would put into this over that period?

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/d...7725/overview/

I'm trying to estimate the cost of ownership. I am also looking at an 2018 Acura RLX SH-AWD (Or a cheaper 2017 TLX). Similar to below, but with MORE miles. They are a bit newer, so it may be a bit of a wait until they start getting some miles and the price comes down.

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/d...2369/overview/

Cheaper, more price comparable:
https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/d...8699/overview/

[ezaircon4jc]

I'm definitely not afraid of the basics like that. I just cant have the big silly stuff.

Ok, lets look at a specific example. If I found a 2015 535i with between 80,000-100,000miles, and I wanted to put another 100,000 miles on it... what repairs would you guess I would put into this over that period?

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/d...7725/overview/

I'm trying to estimate the cost of ownership. I am also looking at an 2018 Acura RLX SH-AWD (Or a cheaper 2017 TLX). Similar to below, but with MORE miles. They are a bit newer, so it may be a bit of a wait until they start getting some miles and the price comes down.

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/d...2369/overview/

Cheaper, more price comparable:
https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/d...8699/overview/

The 535 looks like a pretty good deal. You'll probably be replacing a few gaskets and maybe the water pump & thermostat. The Acura is, at it's heart, a nose heavy FWD appliance. Even with its SH-AWD it's still nose heavy with a FWD bias. Compared to your E60, you'll really feel the undsersteer and weight of the nose.

[martinav]

The 535 looks like a pretty good deal. You'll probably be replacing a few gaskets and maybe the water pump & thermostat. The Acura is, at it's heart, a nose heavy FWD appliance. Even with its SH-AWD it's still nose heavy with a FWD bias. Compared to your E60, you'll really feel the undsersteer and weight of the nose.

Those items seem rather minor. However, with my E60 with N62 V8, changing the starter requires undoing the lower end of the engine and dropping it 6" just to get access to 2 bolts, as well as breaking the A/C lines. I think BMW began the design with the starter, then designed everything else around that.

Thanks for the info. Its helpful!

Rod