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Thread: New Owners Luck! Picking out a new Transmission

  1. #1
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    New Owners Luck! Picking out a new Transmission

    Hello all. This is my first post, please excuse if it it too long or I am somehow posting incorrectly. Go to bottom for summary!

    I finally found a beautiful e34 540i '94 that was in standout condition (for as old as this car is) and good milage (160k mi.) Of course as happy as I was to find this and have been reading up on the e34 it felt like I was right at home driving this white knight.

    Go figure trans program started popping up and I take it to a local indy bmw mech. I have read all the other possible things that can cause this but seemed like a huge time investment to track it down. I took it to them so they can look at it up close and with their experience and bmw computers to report everything single thing. They tell me they actually had this car back at 130k and told the owner the tranny was dying. To my knowledge the previous owner has been swapping atf fluid every 50k. I know I know shoudln't have been swapped so soon causes issues. Seems like a debatable topic for some but anyway, now I am at a real fork in the road. I made the mistake of taking it to where the previous owner regularly took it for standard maintenance for PPI since they are not specialized in bmw only.

    Summary: Indy BMW Mechanics have told me it needs a new transmission. So now I need to figure out if I can convince the wife it is worth it! Goodluck with that one I know. What transmission should I be looking to swap it for?? I don't need a manual for a DD unless it is somehow cheaper. I am afraid of swapping for another 5hp30 and have it go out again. I feel so screwwwwed I need to hit the lottery soon or find alot of cash on the floor.

    Update: I asked the indy he was sure it wasn't the valve body causing issues. Said his codes didn't say anything about a valvebody and rebuilding it is out of the question because this year transmission weren't the type you could just rebuild. He is adamant that simply needs a new tranny and is charging about $350 right now for transmission inspection. Feels like I am in a bad dream.
    Last edited by Tommy Pickles; 10-08-2020 at 10:30 AM.

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    What did the indy BMW shop suggest you do?

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    Said a new transmission will be the only real fix for it. He topped off the atf oil as well and cleared any and all errors from the system but still had shifting issues.

    Error codes that pop up are a result of the transmission slipping. I though it could be some kind of sensor but he is telling me because of the slip it is triggering stuff like that.

  4. #4
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    I've had GM auto transmission rebuilt but they were always garbage, failed again and cost $1,600.

    Is there a reason BMW automatics aren't rebuildable? All the Getrag manual transmissions I've had have still been fine over 400,000 miles

    Quote Originally Posted by Tommy Pickles View Post
    Said a new transmission will be the only real fix for it. He topped off the atf oil as well and cleared any and all errors from the system but still had shifting issues.

    Error codes that pop up are a result of the transmission slipping. I though it could be some kind of sensor but he is telling me because of the slip it is triggering stuff like that.

  5. #5
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    Last time I got a TRANS PROGRAM I just manual swapped my car

    But being more helpful -- this might clear out after doing a fluid/filter change. Also, TRANS PROGRAM can be triggered by various electrical faults/issues. Aside from the error, hows it drive/shift?

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    Sound like the clutch plates have worn and it's run out of adjustment. My old 5hp18 is bad to drive after the battery is disconnected until it adjusts itself, so I'll probably have to rebuild mine eventually (unless I find a man trans in Australia, which is unlikely).

    What have you been quoted for to fit a "new trans"?
    Last edited by fo3; 10-08-2020 at 06:19 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jehu View Post
    I've had GM auto transmission rebuilt but they were always garbage, failed again and cost $1,600.

    Is there a reason BMW automatics aren't rebuildable? All the Getrag manual transmissions I've had have still been fine over 400,000 miles
    These are quite re-buildable, actually fairly easy too as far as auto gearboxes go.
    Your GM trans bashing grows tiresome. Your experience speaks more to the mechanics you choose than to the device they attempt to repair. The bad reputation of the BMW/GM box belongs on the shoulders of BMW for their asinine "lifetime fluid" protocol. Properly cared for they are as or more durable as any.
    Please note that OP has a 540, so it's a (German)ZF 5hp-30 trans.

    @OP depending on what your issues are, you mention "shifting issues", the fix might not require an overhaul but merely repairing the valve body.
    There is LOTS written about these transmission, search is your friend.
    You say the PO changed the fluid frequently. This is good, not bad and bodes well for whatever issues there are.
    Some mechanics when faced with a device they don't understand will just replace the offending unit, at your expense of course. Do some reading and educate yourself before listening to those only regurgitating false information they've heard from others, ad nauseum. Perhaps try the valve body repair yourself(if this is the issue) or find someone that will do an actual diagnosis before condemning the entire unit.
    Last edited by ross1; 10-08-2020 at 07:04 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ross1 View Post
    These are quite re-buildable, actually fairly easy too as far as auto gearboxes go.
    Your GM trans bashing grows tiresome. Your experience speaks more to the mechanics you choose than to the device they attempt to repair. The bad reputation of the BMW/GM box belongs on the shoulders of BMW for their asinine "lifetime fluid" protocol. Properly cared for they are as or more durable as any.
    Please note that OP has a 540, so it's a (German)ZF 5hp-30 trans.

    @OP depending on what your issues are, you mention "shifting issues", the fix might not require an overhaul but merely repairing the valve body.
    There is LOTS written about these transmission, search is your friend.
    You say the PO changed the fluid frequently. This is good, not bad and bodes well for whatever issues there are.
    Some mechanics when faced with a device they don't understand will just replace the offending unit, at your expense of course. Do some reading and educate yourself before listening to those only regurgitating false information they've heard from others, ad nauseum. Perhaps try the valve body repair yourself(if this is the issue) or find someone that will do an actual diagnosis before condemning the entire unit.
    - Ross1 thanks for the response, and everyone else too!

    - Yes it is a ZF 5hp-30 trans. Thank you for clearing that up for other readers.

    - I have been doing plenty of reading about all the other owners who come across the TRANS PROGRAM message and albeit they have gone down nearly every rabbit hole that I could ever think to look at. I have found them all to be inconclusive in fixing the issue by checking electrical wiring, voltages across pins, battery, and alternator, relays, output speed sensor, gear selector, etc. This morning I found threads actually about repairing the valve body. That might be an avenue to try out. In the back of my mind I keep thinking this might just help but it won't solve it.


    -The shop ha all the BMW software to look at the errors, wipe them, and give exact dates and rpms when they occured. It seems tough not to believe them when they say it is not any of those other factors but the transmission slipping causing other sensors to go off. I think he mentioned something about gas pedal alignment going off because of the slip? He cleared everything and then test drove again, none of the errors were "current" which is why he thinks this.

    To restate the issue a little more:
    - The downshifts are rough when slowing down 3-2 and 2-1 (mostly at cold start up)
    - On cold start up feels like delayed acceleration or a heavy ass car when pulling out of the driveway.
    - Shift weirdly going into 3rd (can't recall if its a hard shift followed by TRANS PROGRAM or delayed then TRANS PROGRAM
    - TRANS PROGRAM has come on only when driving, (1) when leaving the house at noon, (4) in traffic on the way home accelerated into 3rd.
    - Everytime it has gone into limp mode I have gotten away with stopping the car, turning it off for 10-15 seconds and starting it back up. When doing this it rides just fine for the rest of the way.
    - This mechanic told me they have seen this care back at 130k mi. and were recommending a new trans then.

    What I was hoping to accomplish from Indy BMW mech, but maybe some one here can give me an answer.
    - Is there anyway a reliable bmw mechanic could tell me without a doubt whether is is one of the common long shot fixes that is causing tranny issues or if it really is a bad transmission and needs to be replaced?

  9. #9
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    No one is going to put themselves on the line and guarantee to solve the problem cheap. It doesn't make any business sense.
    whiskychaser and shogun are the people here experienced with ZF trans so they might point you in the right direction. But if they don't reply then I'll ask how much DIY are you happy to do? Doing a valve body rebuild yourself is worth a try.

    E: I wouldn't pay anyone with the prices they charge just give it a shot, but if you DIY it then not much money lost if it doesn't fix it and ends up being clutches or something more serious.
    Last year I did one on a ford BTR because it shifted badly and the pros were telling me I needed a new trans (that's their business model, after all they have to warranty it), but I ended up fixing it with a valve body clean and replacing just one solenoid. My problem with the ford was bad 2-3 shifts when it was warm. In the early days stopping and restarting it fixed it but it got worse until it wouldn't shift to 3rd at all. A fluid change made it shift to 3rd when cold then stop shifting again when hot. It was a gummed up 2-3 shift solenoid but being a ford it didn't have trans prog or any diagnostics errors so I don't know what fault codes could come up for a gummed up valve. It definitely didn't slip - slipping is worn clutches and that means a full rebuild. If it flares or doesn't shift it's the valve body and it's possible to DIY repair that.
    Last edited by fo3; 10-08-2020 at 09:16 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fo3 View Post
    No one is going to put themselves on the line and guarantee to solve the problem cheap. It doesn't make any business sense.
    whiskychaser and shogun are the people here experienced with ZF trans so they might point you in the right direction. But if they don't reply then I'll ask how much DIY are you happy to do? Doing a valve body rebuild yourself is worth a try.

    E: I wouldn't pay anyone with the prices they charge just give it a shot, but if you DIY it then not much money lost if it doesn't fix it and ends up being clutches or something more serious.
    Last year I did one on a ford BTR because it shifted badly and the pros were telling me I needed a new trans (that's their business model, after all they have to warranty it), but I ended up fixing it with a valve body clean and replacing just one solenoid. My problem with the ford was bad 2-3 shifts when it was warm. In the early days stopping and restarting it fixed it but it got worse until it wouldn't shift to 3rd at all. A fluid change made it shift to 3rd when cold then stop shifting again when hot. It was a gummed up 2-3 shift solenoid but being a ford it didn't have trans prog or any diagnostics errors so I don't know what fault codes could come up for a gummed up valve. It definitely didn't slip - slipping is worn clutches and that means a full rebuild. If it flares or doesn't shift it's the valve body and it's possible to DIY repair that.
    You are right in saying that.

    I have been searching around and have seen their responses and reputation to be of high value here.

    You ford situation sounds rather similar I think. I just think it is bizarre that with all their fancy computer readers something like a faulty solenoid or VB is not popping up as a clear red flag.

    I think I found a way to keep the trans program error away last time. Drive in S3 / S4 for the first 5-10 minutes. then switch to D.

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    If you are going to swap the transmission, check the number on the plate on the side. Odds on it will be 1055 000 010 or 1055 000 029 but you need to know. If you want plug and play, the one you have is the one you need.

    To diagnose the current fault, you really need to know what fault codes are present now. My guess is you probably have 100 - speed monitoring. That is a roundabout way of saying what you put in at the front is not coming out of the back i.e. the trans is slipping. So it is important to be sure.

    Did the garage do any pressure testing? The clutches could be fine but if, for example, there is a crack in the valve body, they will not be applied properly and will slip

    Putting it in sport mode is a good idea. You will be revving it higher than it needs to be revved but you will also be saving the clutches from slipping.

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    @whiskychaser

    I got more fault codes from the shop and will update later tonight.
    They did not do pressure testing, I was told this model does not have a way to test atf pressure without some kind of adapter from zf IF they even have one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by whiskychaser View Post
    If you are going to swap the transmission, check the number on the plate on the side. Odds on it will be 1055 000 010 or 1055 000 029 but you need to know. If you want plug and play, the one you have is the one you need.

    To diagnose the current fault, you really need to know what fault codes are present now. My guess is you probably have 100 - speed monitoring. That is a roundabout way of saying what you put in at the front is not coming out of the back i.e. the trans is slipping. So it is important to be sure.

    Did the garage do any pressure testing? The clutches could be fine but if, for example, there is a crack in the valve body, they will not be applied properly and will slip

    Putting it in sport mode is a good idea. You will be revving it higher than it needs to be revved but you will also be saving the clutches from slipping.
    Here is a full list of what came up.
    Part 1 (1-5)
    IMG_E8750[1].jpgIMG_E8751[1].jpgIMG_E8752[1].jpgIMG_E8753[1].jpgIMG_E8754[1].jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by whiskychaser View Post
    If you are going to swap the transmission, check the number on the plate on the side. Odds on it will be 1055 000 010 or 1055 000 029 but you need to know. If you want plug and play, the one you have is the one you need.

    To diagnose the current fault, you really need to know what fault codes are present now. My guess is you probably have 100 - speed monitoring. That is a roundabout way of saying what you put in at the front is not coming out of the back i.e. the trans is slipping. So it is important to be sure.

    Did the garage do any pressure testing? The clutches could be fine but if, for example, there is a crack in the valve body, they will not be applied properly and will slip

    Putting it in sport mode is a good idea. You will be revving it higher than it needs to be revved but you will also be saving the clutches from slipping.
    Part 2 (6-10)
    IMG_E8755[1].jpgIMG_E8756[1].jpgIMG_E8757[1].jpgIMG_E8758[1].jpgIMG_E8759[1].jpg

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    I was told he cleared all the codes drove it. Then when the shifting issues occurred during a test drive it set off all these error codes (part 1&2). He was under the impression that the transmission is slipping therefore causing all these other signals to go off. Not the other way around as mostly everyone on these TRANS PROGRAM forums suggest.

    This mornings drive between around 6:.30AM: (Did not "warm up" the car) had a few hard shifts at first when pulling out and coming to my first stop. On pulling into main road and thereafter no real hard up-shifts. Felt hard downshifts at a few stop lights and felt a hesitation shift into 3rd twice but it felt mild to me. Ran smoothly on the highway and felt it stutter on a downshift when exiting and coming to a stop but not like a kick in the back like other times. No transprogram error the whole ride.

    If my every morning drive was now worse than this. I would be a happy man.

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    Hello and welcome!

    A manual swap would be comparable or cheaper than a rebuilt automatic, and result in a better car. A used automatic would be cheapest, but AFAIK the only transmissions you can use are E34 540 and E32 740.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tommy Pickles View Post
    I was told he cleared all the codes drove it. Then when the shifting issues occurred during a test drive it set off all these error codes (part 1&2). He was under the impression that the transmission is slipping therefore causing all these other signals to go off. Not the other way around as mostly everyone on these TRANS PROGRAM forums suggest.

    This mornings drive between around 6:.30AM: (Did not "warm up" the car) had a few hard shifts at first when pulling out and coming to my first stop. On pulling into main road and thereafter no real hard up-shifts. Felt hard downshifts at a few stop lights and felt a hesitation shift into 3rd twice but it felt mild to me. Ran smoothly on the highway and felt it stutter on a downshift when exiting and coming to a stop but not like a kick in the back like other times. No transprogram error the whole ride.

    If my every morning drive was now worse than this. I would be a happy man.
    With the caveat that I am not a transmission expert I think your problems lie in the control of the unit rather than the actual function. If clutches were worn enough to slip they would always do so*. The erratic behavior tells me the transmission is confused.
    * I'm aware that apply pressure has lots do do with this, again control.
    Has the fluid and filter been examined? A lot of information is in the condition of the fluid and contents of the filter

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    It might be useful to go through the codes:
    1. Kickdown. That is just a wire to ground. Voltage is less than 9v so the TCM will have thrown transprog anyway
    2. Accelerator position. Again, it is showing 7.27v so can probably be ignored
    3. Speed monitoring.
    4. Temperature. A faulty temp sensor can cause all sorts of irregular shifting
    5. Slip. Speaks for itself
    6. as 4
    7. Stall speed. Speaks for itself

    There are no codes relating to MVs or EDCs. The key is probably 3 and it is hardly new - it has been happening for 848 hours. That said, it has only happened 17 times. And when you change ATF, you can get an increase in pressure of around 10%. That might be the difference between holding and slipping.

    The problem is that you don't know the full history. Maybe the car was used for towing and the trans overheated. Maybe coolant got in and contaminated the clutch plates. Or maybe it is just worn. What you need to know is whether it is a pressure or a worn clutch issue. IIRC, the pressure taps (if your trans has them) are M10x1 and that is the same size as some brake flexi hoses. So it should not be too difficult to get some garage to connect up a pressure tester and check the ATF pressures. If they are in spec, you can only conclude that the clutches themselves are on the way out

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    Quote Originally Posted by whiskychaser View Post
    It might be useful to go through the codes:
    1. Kickdown. That is just a wire to ground. Voltage is less than 9v so the TCM will have thrown transprog anyway
    2. Accelerator position. Again, it is showing 7.27v so can probably be ignored
    3. Speed monitoring.
    4. Temperature. A faulty temp sensor can cause all sorts of irregular shifting
    5. Slip. Speaks for itself
    6. as 4
    7. Stall speed. Speaks for itself

    There are no codes relating to MVs or EDCs. The key is probably 3 and it is hardly new - it has been happening for 848 hours. That said, it has only happened 17 times. And when you change ATF, you can get an increase in pressure of around 10%. That might be the difference between holding and slipping.

    The problem is that you don't know the full history. Maybe the car was used for towing and the trans overheated. Maybe coolant got in and contaminated the clutch plates. Or maybe it is just worn. What you need to know is whether it is a pressure or a worn clutch issue. IIRC, the pressure taps (if your trans has them) are M10x1 and that is the same size as some brake flexi hoses. So it should not be too difficult to get some garage to connect up a pressure tester and check the ATF pressures. If they are in spec, you can only conclude that the clutches themselves are on the way out

    VERY much appreciated for some kind of breakdown to help me pinpoint some low hanging fruit failure points in my car.

    After getting it filled up from the 1st shop, transmission began running smoothly again! Mechanic told me "Don't get fooled if it runs better because we filled up the ATF. It might run a little better but it is still a bad transmission." Well sorry to say but it ran 10x better. they filled it with about 2 Pints of ATF. Could that much fluid reallly make that much of a difference on the transmission? It has been shifting well on accelerating and decelerating. It has been two weeks an only gave me the trans program yesterday. I have noticed that it runs alot better in the mornings rather than the evening 5 PM.

    There are two things I plan on doing in the month of November
    1) Fix the acceleration pedal (it has been really loose with too much play before tensioning. I saw the thread about getting an aluminum bushing instead of the stock piece.)
    2) 1st shop told me there was a small leak on the transmission. I think it is small enough that it doesn't drop fluid to the pavement bc I never see it drop but it is obviously slowly leaking if it is missing fluid from the last ATF change. So hopefully I can find it easily and it is an easy fix ���� hoping for the best.

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    2 pints is a lot = abt. 1 liter. If so much is missing, then the trans would have sucked with the ATF also air, causing foaming inside the trans etc.
    http://www.europeantransmission.com/...ansService.pdf
    almost ATF 20% missing of 5.5 liter which is normally changed with a normal ATF drain and fill http://www.europeantransmission.com/...fluidchard.pdf

    Leaks on a trans are 3 points possible: input shat, outpu shaft and the selecr shaft on the side of the trans, there is a small seal which can leak. For the input shaft seal replacement the trans has to come out
    Shogun tricks and tips for the E32 series are HERE!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tommy Pickles View Post
    VERY much appreciated for some kind of breakdown to help me pinpoint some low hanging fruit failure points in my car.

    After getting it filled up from the 1st shop, transmission began running smoothly again! Mechanic told me "Don't get fooled if it runs better because we filled up the ATF. It might run a little better but it is still a bad transmission." Well sorry to say but it ran 10x better. they filled it with about 2 Pints of ATF. Could that much fluid reallly make that much of a difference on the transmission? It has been shifting well on accelerating and decelerating. It has been two weeks an only gave me the trans program yesterday. I have noticed that it runs alot better in the mornings rather than the evening 5 PM.

    There are two things I plan on doing in the month of November
    1) Fix the acceleration pedal (it has been really loose with too much play before tensioning. I saw the thread about getting an aluminum bushing instead of the stock piece.)
    2) 1st shop told me there was a small leak on the transmission. I think it is small enough that it doesn't drop fluid to the pavement bc I never see it drop but it is obviously slowly leaking if it is missing fluid from the last ATF change. So hopefully I can find it easily and it is an easy fix ���� hoping for the best.
    This is unexpected but welcome I'm sure. Another fluid service with a fresh filter and correct fill would be a good idea now as the existing oil may have become a bit too warm while low and odd clutch engagements may have caused a bit of clutch material suspended in the oil.
    SO who is the so called mechanic that pronounces a transmission terminal without even checking the fluid level?

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    Have you ever removed the pedal bracket from a 540 manual? I am going to have my 6 speed Getrag removed from the body next week along with the driveshaft. I know having the pedal bracket would be welcome by anyone interested in it yet it looks like more time than I see I can give to doing it. Seen a write up? looks like the steering column is involved.
    Quote Originally Posted by moroza View Post
    Hello and welcome!

    A manual swap would be comparable or cheaper than a rebuilt automatic, and result in a better car. A used automatic would be cheapest, but AFAIK the only transmissions you can use are E34 540 and E32 740.

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    I would consider rebuilding the valve body. I rebuilt the VB in my car around 150K miles, and erratic shifting improved dramatically. While it's out I would also consider replacing the internal wiring harness. The valve body rebuild kit should include some fresh O-rings for the wiring harness connector, which also can be the source of a fluid leak.

    A complete valve body rebuild kit from zF runs about a couple hundred dollars. Here's a great how-to with lots of pics. http://www.bimmerboard.com/forums/posts/825438

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    Quote Originally Posted by shogun View Post
    2 pints is a lot = abt. 1 liter. If so much is missing, then the trans would have sucked with the ATF also air, causing foaming inside the trans etc.
    http://www.europeantransmission.com/...ansService.pdf
    almost ATF 20% missing of 5.5 liter which is normally changed with a normal ATF drain and fill http://www.europeantransmission.com/...fluidchard.pdf

    Leaks on a trans are 3 points possible: input shat, outpu shaft and the selecr shaft on the side of the trans, there is a small seal which can leak. For the input shaft seal replacement the trans has to come out

    So finally got a better look under there. looks like the main leaks are are actually from the transmission cooler lines. That saves a big headache of dropping the transmission.

    Will be replacing the fill plug and tranny cooler line o ring very soon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ross1 View Post
    This is unexpected but welcome I'm sure. Another fluid service with a fresh filter and correct fill would be a good idea now as the existing oil may have become a bit too warm while low and odd clutch engagements may have caused a bit of clutch material suspended in the oil.
    SO who is the so called mechanic that pronounces a transmission terminal without even checking the fluid level?
    I found one small leak and one mild leak, fill plug and tranny cooler line (o-ring). Will be replacing those soon. I have been thinking about replacing the filter and fluid like you mentioned. Might be a while to get parts from FCPEuro so will just to the O-ring for now and fill up the tranny fluid.

    Does it matter if I mix new and old fluid? I have no idea what was in there before.

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