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Thread: my 2000 steel grey 2.8 5-speed z3 roadster (with too many pictures)

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by solimans View Post
    I’ve lost track on this but I’d like to help.
    Thanks, I appreciate that.

    Today I did a new smoke test. It seemed to hold pressure for a long time with no smoke in the engine bay (only under the oil fill cap). The glove attached to the intake stayed inflated for probably 4-5 minutes before slowly deflating.

    I ordered a ELM327 OBD2 USB Adapter for Windows to better diagnose the fuel trims and that is supposed to show up tomorrow. I didn't realize I have to search around for the software that goes with it.

    I noticed that my CReader 319 OBD scanner has a "Data Stream" showing some fuel trim info. It isn't very responsive and the view of the data is limited. It showed that there is data coming from the MAF sensor. I bought some MAF Sensor cleaner and sprayed the MAF sensor (just in case).

    Also, a video I watched suggested that if the two paired O2 sensors moved with changes in throttle, the O2 sensors probably aren't bad (which is what happened).

    I went to Harbor Freight and bought a Fuel Injection tester and tested the fuel pressure. With the engine key on (but the engine off) the gauge showed 49 psi which seems proper based on the video I watched. The video says that the pressure should be between 36-46 psi with the engine running and mine was at 52 psi.

    edit: I tried it again and it stayed steady at 45 psi with the engine running

    The engine has stopped showing P1188/p1189 codes. It mostly shows misfiring cylinders, but will show p0170/p0173 occasionally. It mostly runs rough and idles too low (but it did run smoothly for a short while).

    The fuel trims vary but have gone as high as 27%. My scanner isn't smooth like the one in the video (the data seems choppy/delayed). I don't think I have a vacuum leak though based on the smoke test I did.

    I'm getting ready to order a new fuel pressure regulator (for about $60 shipped which doesn't seem bad). I'm not sure what would cause it to go bad suddenly though. I know some cars have the FPR built into the fuel filter (but I think mine is next to the fuel filter and separate).

    Any ideas? TIA
    Last edited by ragged325; 09-04-2021 at 11:27 PM.

  2. #102
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    Today I did a new smoke test. It seemed to hold pressure for a long time with no smoke in the engine bay (only under the oil fill cap). The glove attached to the intake stayed inflated for probably 4-5 minutes before slowly deflating.
    In my testing, always at least one of the intake valves was cracked and smoke went out the exhaust. I put a glove on the exhaust pipe and it ballooned. Just seems funny.
    Claude Berman, 96 Z3 Production Date 2/96 BMW CCA# 581686
    The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance. Socrates, 469–399 B.C.E

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyberman View Post
    In my testing, always at least one of the intake valves was cracked and smoke went out the exhaust. I put a glove on the exhaust pipe and it ballooned. Just seems funny.
    It seems to me that if the intake valves are open, the exhaust valves should be shut (and vice-versa). It seems like the smoke should leak past the piston rings though and the glove should have emptied more quickly? If I haven't mentioned lately, I don't really have experience working on cars and I'm just feeling my way around trying to figure out what I'm doing.

    edit:

    I think my next thing to do is to clean the idle control valve. I didn't really do anything with it when it was out, but I'm seeing people say that if it gets clogged with carbon it can cause a rough idle, lean codes and misfire codes. Supposedly if you lightly shake it you should be able to hear the valve moving freely.
    Last edited by ragged325; 09-05-2021 at 08:51 AM.

  4. #104
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    for the elm327 wireless obd - you typically use an App like Torque, it's works ok to see OBD variables - and I guess it can log them. Torque is an android app but there are some apple ones too.

    Of course for the BEST software diagnostics consult the thread here - get a KCAN USB and BMW tools - i.e. INPA - that would help you see and possibly control a LOT more.

    Concerning the ICV - I got a code when mine was clogged/stuck and I replaced it - probably could have just cleaned it - but it could cause some issues described.
    Last edited by ZGator; 09-05-2021 at 09:06 AM.

    “Great wisdom is generous; petty wisdom is contentious.” 无为

  5. #105
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    Def clean the icv.

    With the smoke test look for smoke escaping the intake track. Maf to valves. There are some vacuum ports on the back of the manifold as well. Any smoke there?

    The oil cap should be air tight? Seal with hand as a test?

    Unplug MAF as a test.

    Inpa or other is a good idea…you need to see trims in real-time. If trims correct with throttle input it’s a vacuum leak.

    Sounds like fuel is good? Did you remove the plugs, coils in your recent work?


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  6. #106
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    +1 on the oil cap. Also, the O-rings on the dipstick tube can fail. I didn't find my leaks until I brought it into a shop that had a much higher volume smoke machine. BTW, there is an overlap between valves at some point in their cycle where both are open slightly (one closing and one starting to open), perhaps your engine had all of the closed at the time you did your test.
    Claude Berman, 96 Z3 Production Date 2/96 BMW CCA# 581686
    The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance. Socrates, 469–399 B.C.E

  7. #107
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    I cleaned the ICV. It was dirty and cleaning it got the valve to move much more easily. I cleared the codes and started the engine. It bogged a little, but managed to idle smoothly. When I checked the DataStream it showed:

    Bank 1 and 2 fuel trim at 27.3%. After a couple minutes this causes a OL_Fault (Open Loop fault) and it shows the fuel trim at 0.0%.

    When it's still showing 27.3%, if I rev it to 3K rpm it stays the same but it goes down to the <5% after I let off the gas to allow it to idle on its own (before going back to 27.3% a minute later).

    The O2 sensors show numbers that aren't the same. I should have recorded them, but they're something like:

    02S11 - .030
    02S12 - .105
    02S22 - .090
    02S21 - .020

    Shouldn't the pairs of O2 sensors show the same readings? Autohausaz's website says that the O2 sensors should be replaced at 100,000 miles.

    Then I decided to re-attach my fuel pressure test gauge. It showed 50 psi before starting the ignition, but when up to 55 psi after.

    IMG_20210905_123119961.jpg

    edit: Shopping around it looks like I'm going to be out $280. Ouch! I need to get this thing running though and my long-term goal is to get everything sorted out so I can just drive this thing without too many headaches.

    It also sounds like it could be a vacuum leak, but the smoke test makes me think it's not??

    Also, the oil cap doesn't appear to leak. I was trying to say that when you open the oil cap you can see smoke under the valve cover (but it's trapped in there).
    Last edited by ragged325; 09-05-2021 at 04:09 PM.

  8. #108
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    I guess maf, or upstream O2.

    Did you test w maf unplugged?

    O2 sensors will be diff. Before and after cat.

    I can get some O2 screen shots from inpa later if you think it will help?


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  9. #109
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    Long thread so I don't know if you stated the mileage. Mine is approaching 100k and for as long as I've been on this forum people say that the O2 sensors should be replaced about now. Funny thing, I tripped a CEL last week and had to replace the pre-cat sensor. And today, I finally got a Bentley manual and guess what, it says BMW says to replace them at 100k miles.

    Now BB hates Rock Auto but I just looked it up and I could have saved $50 on the two Bosch sensors I purchased, one from O'Reilly and one from CarID (exact numbers) and I could have saved almost $25 getting a new Bentley manual there as opposed to a used one off Amazon. My 4 banger only has two O2 sensors, so once you get your Bosch numbers, check it out as you need four.

    How many miles do you have? Like you I want to invest everything needed to give me a good 5-10 years of reasonably trouble-free driving. I did that back in 73 with an MG Midget and it carried me back and forth from the NYC area to the University of Buffalo (400 miles) for four years of college and it was running strong when the leaf springs popped through the unibody at their front mounting points thanks to rust.
    Claude Berman, 96 Z3 Production Date 2/96 BMW CCA# 581686
    The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance. Socrates, 469–399 B.C.E

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by solimans View Post
    I guess maf, or upstream O2.

    Did you test w maf unplugged?

    O2 sensors will be diff. Before and after cat.

    I can get some O2 screen shots from inpa later if you think it will help?
    I was able to work on the car yesterday morning, but I probably won't get much time again until next weekend. I tried it without the maf before, but I'm not sure what I should be looking for with that. I do notice that my OBD scanner shows the MAF signal and the readings vary with throttle and seem inline with what I see in the youtube videos.

    I get that the O2 sensors before the cat and after will be different, but the two pre-cat sensors don't look similar (same for the two post-cat sensors)?? I have INPA on my computer and I suppose I should use that to hook up to monitor the O2 sensors. I just don't have a laptop computer and so I don't like setting up my home computer in the driveway (but I should do it).

    Quote Originally Posted by cyberman View Post
    Long thread so I don't know if you stated the mileage. Mine is approaching 100k and for as long as I've been on this forum people say that the O2 sensors should be replaced about now. Funny thing, I tripped a CEL last week and had to replace the pre-cat sensor. And today, I finally got a Bentley manual and guess what, it says BMW says to replace them at 100k miles.

    Now BB hates Rock Auto but I just looked it up and I could have saved $50 on the two Bosch sensors I purchased, one from O'Reilly and one from CarID (exact numbers) and I could have saved almost $25 getting a new Bentley manual there as opposed to a used one off Amazon. My 4 banger only has two O2 sensors, so once you get your Bosch numbers, check it out as you need four.

    How many miles do you have? Like you I want to invest everything needed to give me a good 5-10 years of reasonably trouble-free driving. I did that back in 73 with an MG Midget and it carried me back and forth from the NYC area to the University of Buffalo (400 miles) for four years of college and it was running strong when the leaf springs popped through the unibody at their front mounting points thanks to rust.
    I agree with everything you're saying. I have 109K miles on it now with no records (to show o2 sensor replacement). I buy lots of stuff from Rockauto and just ordered a pair of pre-cat 02 sensors. I also ordered a fuel pressure regulator from autohausaz for $60 shipped.

    My thing is that all of this was working fine prior to me taking things apart. It makes sense to me that I re-installed things wrong. But like you're saying, I might as well replace the sensors anyway.

    Thanks guys for the help.

  11. #111
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    Re the maf test. Unplug and check trims to see if they correct and notice if idle returns to normal. If so, could be maf at fault.

    Did you remove the coils? Sometimes a bad ground there can cause issues?

    What was the work that you performed before the issue showed up? Coolant system refresh I think you said?


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  12. #112
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    Maybe a new thread re just this problem? Very hard to follow this one, goes back quite a ways


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  13. #113
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    ...it depands
    I can lend you my laptop with INPA. PM me if interested.
    Last edited by nevan; 09-07-2021 at 10:50 AM.
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  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by solimans View Post
    Re the maf test. Unplug and check trims to see if they correct and notice if idle returns to normal. If so, could be maf at fault.

    Did you remove the coils? Sometimes a bad ground there can cause issues?

    What was the work that you performed before the issue showed up? Coolant system refresh I think you said?
    That's great advice, I'll try it out. I didn't touch the coils. I think the only ground I touched was the wire that bolts up bellow the throttle body. The work I did was removing the intake manifold to replace the CCV system and the coolant pipes/hoses below the intake manifold. I had the injectors professionally cleaned/tested and replaced the manifold gaskets, fuel filter, throttle body gasket, and dipstick o-ring.

    Quote Originally Posted by nevan View Post
    I can lend you my laptop with INPA. PM me if interested. I'm up by the Scripps Ranch area.
    That's super nice, thanks. I may end up doing that, but my plan now is to do the "unplugged MAF test", then replace the fuel pressure regulator and pre-cat O2 sensors and see where I'm at (since I already ordered that stuff).

    I appreciate all of the help.

  15. #115
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    my 2000 steel grey 2.8 5-speed z3 roadster (with too many pictures)

    Yes sir. Cooling system and CCV refresh

    I’d double check any grounds that you touched.

    And the plugs, they are all keyed, except for the O2 sensors. So maybe those got flipped? Worth a test?

    The plugs, the only one that is not reachable with the manifold on is the crank sensor (under manifold towards the back). I’d unplug, clean (electrical cleaner spray) and reconnect all the others just to be sure they are fully seated…


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    Last edited by solimans; 09-07-2021 at 12:28 PM.

  16. #116
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    Check the plugs? Check the injectors?

    Maybe that bit of glove that ripped off burned and got stuck onto a spark plug or injector and is causing misfires

    As others have mentioned you may want to create a new thread, documenting briefly the history of where this problem developed from and what steps youve taken diagnostically so far

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  17. #117
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    And the plugs, they are all keyed, except for the O2 sensors. So maybe those got flipped? Worth a test?
    Pelican's write-up on O2 sensors mentions that if there are four (2 before), he always does one at a time to avoid crossing them up.
    Claude Berman, 96 Z3 Production Date 2/96 BMW CCA# 581686
    The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance. Socrates, 469–399 B.C.E

  18. #118
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    Just want to say thanks for all of the help. Solimans was right, it was the MAF sensor. I installed my new O2 sensors on Wednesday, but things were the same. I unplugged the MAF and it ran perfectly (with the fuel trim just a little rich).

    I googled to find out why that was and found this article which explained it. I ordered a MotoRad MAF from amazon for $80. I installed it and the car ran perfectly.

    I think the MAF sensor was sending the wrong intake air temp (45°C / 115°F).

    My new fuel pressure regulator won't get here until next week, but I changed the oil in the car and went for a nice drive. Thanks again.

    IMG_20210911_184737794.jpg IMG_20210911_184605556_HDR.jpg motorad.jpg
    Last edited by ragged325; 09-12-2021 at 05:54 PM.

  19. #119
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    Good to hear you got it…all is well that ends well.

    The aftermarket sensors I read can be hit and miss. Keep an eye on it…


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  20. #120
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    I got my new fuel pressure regulator installed and the pressure was 55 (then 52) at idle (same as before). The youtube video I watched mentioned the correct pressure was 36-46 psi, but that was for an e46 with a m52tu. I did some more searching around the forums and saw that the higher pressures may be correct for my car (but I'm not certain). I'm not going to worry about it as the car runs great.

    I've been spending a bunch on my car and I'm trying to cut down. At the same time I figured I'd try out some cheap ($35) amazon LED headlights (just 9006 low beams). I figure that if I'm not happy with them I can upgrade to something more expensive later. I watched a bunch of youtube review videos, but the ones they recommended seemed to get some bad reviews on amazon. I took a chance on a newer set with fewer reviews.

    I wish the pattern on the garage door was more even, but it may be that I can adjust them or it's the fault of the stock headlight design? Other than that I'd say they make a huge difference. I feel much more confident driving at night. They make the car seem like it's more modern.

    If you're outside and looking at the car with the lights on I think I prefer the more yellow look of the halogen bulbs.

    IMG_20210917_201023985.jpg IMG_20210920_192239179.jpg IMG_20210920_193849421.jpg IMG_20210920_194447037.jpg
    Last edited by ragged325; 09-21-2021 at 08:10 AM.

  21. #121
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    I'm going to add that I bought LED bulbs for my brake lights because the taillights on my car were apparently split from overheating. I never gave a review of the bulbs, but they are super bright and seem to work great. I feel a little safer driving a small car now because these lights are almost too bright. I got them in red, but if I got them in white they may be even brighter.

    IMG_20210920_215512779.jpg

    edit: I just noticed my third brake light is out.
    Last edited by ragged325; 09-21-2021 at 06:31 PM.

  22. #122
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    Just a quick update to say that I bought a used clear third brake light off ebay for $100. I never thought to check to see if was working when I got the car.

    I was rear-ended in my work truck a few years ago when I was waiting at a stoplight and it was pretty annoying. I looked in the rear view mirror before I got hit and could see the girl texting before she finally looked up to see that she couldn't stop in time. Dealing with the insurance and getting everything fixed was a pain.

    With all of the time and money I've put into this car and because it's such a small car, getting rear-ended would suck a lot more. If you get a chance, try to check your brake lights this week (my suggestion).

    IMG_20211106_122354400.jpg IMG_20211106_124140389.jpg
    Last edited by ragged325; 11-10-2021 at 09:20 AM.

  23. #123
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    No big update, but my SRS/airbag light came back on after I got it to stay off for a while. INPA said it was the passenger seat belt tensioner (which had been a cause for the SRS light in the past). I tried cleaning all of the wiring connections with contact cleaner, but had no luck. I was able to find a new seat belt tensioner for $95 on ebay and got it installed. The SRS light kept coming back after clearing the code even after replacing the tensioner. I was about to give up and put the computer back in the house, but for some reason it cleared after I had the seat tightened down??

    I added a deep scrape to the paint on my side sill from the seat rail when I was moving the seat, but I touched it up later and it looks okay.





    Also, I had used a bass blocker to cutout the frequencies lower than 300 Hz from going to my subwoofer. I went back to amazon and found a 150 Hz blocker to see if that would add more bass without overpowering the sub. On most songs the stereo has more bass and sounds better, but there are a few songs where it's too much (I still like it though).


  24. #124
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    So, I've seen a lot of reminders around here to replace engine mounts and I finally got around to doing mine. I know people like the Corteco brand, but these Beck/Arnley ones were half the price ($23 ea.) at rockauto.com.



    I had a couple rubber blocks I bought to lift my work truck and they worked out really well for lifting the engine.



    At 22 years and 111K miles, my old ones looked like they were just starting to give out.



    I watched the video below for instructions and the guy had a lot of helpful tips that made the job pretty straightforward.



    I'll add my SRS light is back on but I bought a new/used cable from the tensioner that I need to try out.
    Last edited by ragged325; 04-10-2022 at 09:27 AM.

  25. #125
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    I didn't like the way the rust looked on the sway bar and subframe. I had a POR-15 kit laying around for something else and decided to clean up the rust a little.



    I decided to try this stainless steel paint I saw. It went on a little thick and I prefer the older color, but otherwise it should be fine. It probably didn't help that I sprayed it over the POR-15 and didn't let it cure long enough. I don't think it's going to rust again though.





    Overall the POR-15 went on pretty well. It's not a show car and I can say that it looks better than before.





    I also ordered some Fluid Film wax spray to coat the surface rust on the bolts under the car. Overall my car doesn't have any real rust, but the control arms, tie rods, etc. that I installed a year ago have started to get a little rusty.

    another edit: It took me this long to realize that the reason it's developing rust now is because I drive to the beach once or twice a week (I couldn't figure out why there was rust).
    Last edited by ragged325; 04-17-2022 at 01:11 PM.

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