Reliability concerns

[97M62BimmerKid]

Hello all,

Here's my dilemma, I'm looking for a secondary car, mostly winter beater. I currently daily drive a 97 540i, I love the car to death, I wouldn't dare part with it. 282hp at the crank may be slow compared to modern offerings, but it's by far the best all around car I've ever owned. I've met too many people that have had e39s that regretted selling them. My issue is, I live in North eastern NJ, I need a car with X-drive, my dad has an e46 325xi and every time we get a big snowstorm, I usually have to borrow the car from him in advance, now that he's moved away, that's just not feasible anymore. I would get an e46, but it's too small for me, I'm almost 6'4. When I did drive that car, I have to have the seat pushed all the way back. And it's just plain unfair to my other passengers.

So, I began to look at e60/e61 prices, they aren't e39 or e46 cheap, but they seem very close to hitting the bottom of their depreciation curve. Like I said, I already drive a 5er, I understand that these aren't Hondas, but is the reliability really as bad as everybody says it is? I was looking at 530xiT, and 535xiT. I figured I'd stick to the I6 engines, I'm looking for as good fuel economy as I can get with AWD, while still being decently quick. Is the N54 a decently reliable power plant compared to the N52, or is it something to avoid? And how does N52 reliability compare to the M54, or is it just the same engine with minor tweaks?

I don't know nearly as much about the e60 generation 5 series as I do the e39, what are some cool options I should look out for, and how hard is it to retrofit options? Ex. HUD, M5 gauge cluster, Sirius XM, Nav, etc., etc.

I know a lot of people complain about the e60's first generation I-Drive system, is it really as terrible as everyone makes it out to be, or is that just hyperbole? My 540i has the factory nav setup, and it seems clunky compared to what we have in cars today, but not terrible, I can't imagine I-Drive is much worse?

What are some common failures that I should be looking for? Are there any catastrophic failures that I should worry about? I know everyone makes fun of the e60 M5 and S85 reliability, but how bad are the rest of engines? I'd love to hear your horror stories.

I'm looking to collect as much information as I can about this generation to make the most informed purchase.

Thanks

[JayArras]

If you're looking for a "beater", why are you even considering a BMW? Get yourself a Subaru or Altima or Camry.

https://www.autobytel.com/car-buying...e-cars-130706/

[97M62BimmerKid]

Beater is the wrong term, daily driver would be a better term.

and to be fairly honest with you, I did look at Subaru’s, but I’m a bit of a spoiled idiot and I like the nice features my car has, and I don’t want to give them up. I understand it’s not nearly as reliable as a Subaru or a Honda or any other Asian manufacturer, but it’s cheap secondhand and it’s comfortable. I understand that with a BMW you can’t defer maintenance or slack on repairs, it’s not a VW.

if it were a VW, I’d treat it like I did my Jetta, but it’s not a Jetta, you can’t drive the thing with the dashboard lit up like a Christmas tree.

[RepairGuy]

I drive does suck, but if you can get an N52 xi they are pretty reliable engines. More so than the N54, but of course the N54 is turbo and more fun. Way more reliability concerns though. Most all e60's are at a point that they were either cared for, or not at all, meaning affordable ones from private sellers will be leaky pigs. The biggest issue I had with mine was oil and coolant leaks. But as long as you do the maintenance the engine will run strong. Keep oil in it and don't let it overheat. The engine itself is stout. I'd be more worried about the transmission in any car you look into. Best bet is to service it right away when you get one.

[MysticRob]

Unless you're good with a wrench I'd avoid the twin turbos altogether. Just more stuff that'll eventually go wrong. I love my E61 but I've already replaced both VANOS solenoids, walnut blasted the nasty intake valves, changed all plugs, replaced 3 dead coils, changed out a very leaky -11 injector, replaced a bad hatch window release button, did all vacuum hoses, and a bad IBS sensor. All in the 2 years I've owned it. Granted I now have over 112k miles on it, but I'm not so sure a nice Subie wouldn't be more economical.

That said, I've never been happier to own any car. Great handling with 19" wheels, MHD tune, xHP easy-shifting tranny, and a bit more oomph and fuel economy with the xDelete during the summer.

[97M62BimmerKid]

I’m decently handy with a wrench, I’ve done most of the repairs to my own 540i. I was looking at the 535 because it seems like it’s more common in my area at least. I’ve heard N54 reliability is bad, but I’d have to expect so, after all with twin turbos comes oil consumption and more possible vacuum leak sources.

I’ve talked to a few friends that are BMW specific mechanics and they all told me to stay away from the N54, if it’s really as unreliable as they say it is, then I’ll stay away. Probably just look at 528 or 530 instead.

All in all, it sounds like you’ve done as much maintenance as one would expect to do on a 112k mile car. Makes what I’ve done to my e39 seem like a massive list.

I think when you’re looking at cheap euro luxury cars, no matter the make, you’ll always have those two types of owners, the type that cared for it and put every bit of maintenance into it, and the type that was between a corolla and a 535, and they wanted to flex, even though they couldn’t afford to, and they just didn’t maintain it at all.

I like to think I’m the type that cares, I have INPA and NCS expert running on my laptop, and I have BMW scanner for my e39, when I find issues within the modules I like to fix them as soon as I can. I get the car aligned with every new season, I replaced the multi link control arms and all that mess in the front when my car was vibrating at highway speeds. I get my rims fixed when they’re bent, I put the extra care into my car because I’m a bit of a perfectionist.

I’m just looking for a car that’s got newer features, good in the snow and that’s cheaper to run than my 540i.

[MysticRob]

Honestly, the N54 long block is very stout. It's just all the crap hanging off it for power delivery that causes problems.
And like you said, you can do most stuff yourself, and throwing a tune on an N54 gives you perma-grin.
If the wastegates and actuators have already been replaced, my own experience says they'll continue to last awhile afterward.
Worth it I say, but again, only when we can turn our own wrenches to save money.
I looked at the 530xi but didn't feel it had enough power for my liking, especially with the extra hundreds of pounds of weight and driveline loss from the AWD.
I'd already had a tuned 2009 E90 335i and wanted something with much better cargo hauling ability and with more comfortable seats / suspension, but with similar smiles-per-gallon, so the 535xi Touring was the obvious choice.

[97M62BimmerKid]

I love the idea of a fast wagon. My father had an e39 540iT with a Dinan Stage 2 tune. Thing went through Steptronic transmissions like no other, but it was a beast. Nobody expected the wagon to haul as much a$$ as that one did. It’s my personal option that I need a wagon, because the sedan is plenty useful, until you need more room.

When I moved out of my parents house and into my own apartment, I borrowed that 540i wagon all the time all the while I wished I had my own. To this day, it’s still my opinion that a wagon is what I need.

I’m spoiled by my 540i, it’s a fun car, just send it and it keeps going, it just keeps going faster, I keep waiting for the power to drop off, but it just keeps going. It’s incredible, I’ve driven an e39 530i, and I liked that, it wasn’t nearly as fast as my car, but it was far better than a 525 in my opinion.

and with AWD and an Auto transmission, of course it’s gonna be a massive drain on power, I just want to meter, just how much performance I can get without it being Audi levels of unreliability. I’d also prefer it to not be audi levels of difficulty to fix.

One of my friends had an e92 335i and he said it was the best car he’d ever owned. But he also said it was less reliable than most audi’s. And that’s my concern. I’ve seen just how difficult it is to reach some of the most basic pieces in a lot of Audi’s, even as old as the B4 platform, and it’s been a personal goal of mine to never own one out of its warranty period.

the same mentality applies here. It’s a BMW, I’m not expecting biblical amounts of room on either side of the engines like you’d get in a pickup truck, I’m hoping for more room that what Audi or MB gives you, which is none whatsoever. I’m not expecting to just change the oil every two years and drive it every day trouble free, I’m expecting a fair share of problems, oil changes every 3k with synthetic, checking the oil level every week, every bizarre electrical anomaly to happen, sensors to fail, the list goes on.

to be honest I’ve had a lot of electrical issues with my car and I’ve fixed all of them. I’m very good with electronics, and I damned well better be, considering I work for an automotive electronics company.

what are some common failures for the N54 then? I’m curious, because if it’s nowhere near as bad as M62 ownership, then I’m all in. I think rod bearings on the S85 is way worse than the M62’s timing chain guide failure, but it still can’t be as bad as they say it is.

[MysticRob]

Most of the common N54 ailments relate to non-internal things like plugs, coils, injectors, intake valves needing walnut blasted, VANOS solenoids, fuel pump, water pump, various gaskets, and serpentine belt breakage getting sucked into engine from crank.

Then of course you have the turbo-specific things like boost solenoids, wastegates, wastegate actuators, vacuum lines, etc that really don't happen all that often once they're replaced or repaired with newer parts.

The head, head gaskets, valves, intakes, lower ends, are rarely a problem unless normal maintenance just isn't done like it should be.

I mean hell, mine is 12yrs old and it runs like new because I turn my own wrenches and take care of stuff when it needs done.

[97M62BimmerKid]

That sounds like what I’d expect to replace on any 2008 turbo charged GDI car tbh, is it hard to get to the common vacuum line failure spots? How expensive are the repairs on average, like, do they exceed $1.5k in parts very often? I’m sure the Vanos solenoids are an expensive part.

and what are some cool options to look out for? Regardless of what car I get I’m going to upgrade the I-drive system to the one from the 2010 model year cars, and I’m going to swap the cluster for an M5 cluster, and add a HUD, but what are some other things to keep an eye out for, I’m into gadgets, no matter how trite and pointless they may seem.

[zoom750]

If the second car is primarily for the snow, why not just put a good set of snow tires on your e39?

The main differences between the N54 and N52 are the turbo and the high pressure fuel pump, I believe. And the injectors? If you are committed to replacing those items early on, I don't see why it couldn't be as reliable as the N52, although they are pricey.

The other problems that e60s experience - leaking oil pan, plastic coolant lines/connectors cracking, faulty heater valves, leaking expansion tank, valve cover gaskets, etc. - occur with either engine.

[MysticRob]

That sounds like what I’d expect to replace on any 2008 turbo charged GDI car tbh, is it hard to get to the common vacuum line failure spots? How expensive are the repairs on average, like, do they exceed $1.5k in parts very often? I’m sure the Vanos solenoids are an expensive part.

and what are some cool options to look out for? Regardless of what car I get I’m going to upgrade the I-drive system to the one from the 2010 model year cars, and I’m going to swap the cluster for an M5 cluster, and add a HUD, but what are some other things to keep an eye out for, I’m into gadgets, no matter how trite and pointless they may seem.

No, it's all piece-meal typically. Couple hundred here and there. The worst vacuum hoses are the ones going to the turbo wastegate actuators themselves. Took me 30min to position myself on the engine to do the front turbo, and I still haven't gotten to the rear one yet. Likely have to go under the car to change that one. I use 3.5mm Voracious Motorsports hoses, really good stuff.

Try to ensure whatever E60/E61 you get has the USB port on it for mp3 enjoyment. Mine doesn't so I had to install a bluetooth controller tapped into the headphone jack at the back of the rear console. Works well enough, but my 335i had the USB and it's much more convenient. Also wish I could've found a deepsea blue with the comfort seats.

[pbonsalb]

E61 535xi are great and we have had ours for 10 years, but I would not recommend it unless you are an advanced DIYer. They can suffer expensive repair bills. The last of the N52 cars would be a safer bet, but I don’t know the models and years.

[Gman6262]

I have a 535xi E61 - absolutely brilliant winter car. I agree with all the above - the motor itself seems to be solid, but you can expect issues with turbo wastegates, pressure controllers, vacuum lines, etc. You sound like you're handy - there's nothing particularly challenging with these engines with the exception of a Turbo replacement (not hard, just long and complicated). Good luck in your search.

BMW Snowbank-3203.jpg

[Gman6262]

I have a 535xi E61 - absolutely brilliant winter car. I agree with all the above - the motor itself seems to be solid, but you can expect issues with turbo wastegates, pressure controllers, vacuum lines, etc. You sound like you're handy - there's nothing particularly challenging with these engines with the exception of a Turbo replacement (not hard, just long and complicated). Good luck in your search.

BMW Snowbank-3203.jpg