Where did all the Z3s go?

[mpire]

So I have been looking around for a roadster to play with and I can't find any.

I think we completely forget that these cars are 20 years old and are starting to be pretty hard to find.

The last one I looked at was pretty nice until you looked underneath and saw nothing but RUST!

I was pretty surprised, drove a long way to buy that one.

All I see is $15k Z3s with 180K+ miles on the clock at the buy here pay here places.

What do you think? Are the good cars all gone?

[KBH22102]

Up here in the Middle Atlantic area, there are lots of Z3's on CL and the usual outlets. Many of them are pretty low mileage and good to decent condition. For example

https://washingtondc.craigslist.org/...189398936.html

[mpire]

Up here in the Middle Atlantic area, there are lots of Z3's on CL and the usual outlets. Many of them are pretty low mileage and good to decent condition. For example

https://washingtondc.craigslist.org/...189398936.html

Thats a buy here pay here dealer asking twice the cars value.

Also, that's the only one on craigslist in washington DC. lol

[TexaZ3]

Thats a buy here pay here dealer asking twice the cars value.

Also, that's the only one on craigslist in washington DC. lol

You said all you see is 180K mile cars at $15k. He gave you a link to a 56K mile car for $10k. What's the problem?
There are plenty of cars around if you search. But if your idea of good Z3 car is a 30K miler in good shape for $5k, then yes, all the good ones are gone.

[IndianaRoadster]

The fact that your having a hard time finding one is part of the reason prices are going up. That's how capitalism works, supply and demand.

[BimmerBreaker]

Come to AZ there are plenty here

Just helped my sister buy a lovely Topaz Blue 2.5 5 speed for 4k, 120k-ish miles

[Allan Parsons]

There are always 5-6 for sale on the Orlando Craigslist

[zellamay]

But if they come here and buy all the Z3s, they'll be gone!!!

[Trademark1]

Having just completed a search, there are a lot of rats out there. I looked at a lot of cars in the $13- $20k range that when visited in person reveal terrible sub frame failures and the full gamut of serious mechanical flaws and extensive paint/interior wear not visible at all in photos.

Nevertheless, I did find at least a couple turn up each week that seemed fair values - and then it comes down to preferred engine, colors, etc.

Zero affiliation, but when I was looking (finally found my car last week) I considered this one:

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...8897881830284/

looks pretty clean and a 3.0. A bit far from me but closer to you perhaps. I saw a few decent 3.0s with about 60k miles for around $9k in Midwest that looked pretty good upon inspection.

maybe this M in SC is worthy of investigation:

https://www.burnoutgarage803.com/vdp...-Hill-SC-29730

[Allan Parsons]

how about these ?
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...query=z3%20bmw

[Wcumoron]

I will reach out to one of my ex employees and see if she's ready to sell hers. I think it was an oxford green over beige 2001 3.0 that she hardly drove and kept covered most of the time due to rain.

[cyberman]

I overpaid by a good $3500 on my 96 from a dealer. The dealers and many private sellers overprice quite a bit. I should have shopped longer and been willing to travel further. You have to be really hard-nosed and be willing to walk. With real estate, it's "location, location, location", but with old cars it's "condition, condition, condition". You have to realize that most people don't do their own work and find maintenance expenses too high so they try to dump the car at as high a price as they dream they can get.

Look for a car with service records and an owner who really took care, and replaced much of the rubber and plastic. Remember rubber and plastic disintegrates with age and heat and it's used extensively, not only in obvious places, but also, insidiously in things like shocks, brake calipers, etc. All these things take time and money to restore and face it, just about every Z3 needs restoration to a greater and lessor extent.

[Tim95M3]

You want a high mileage zero rust good condition supercharged 1.9 to play with? I love it but it needs a new home.

[Schreier]

A year ago, I had two crop up at the local pick-n-pull lot at the same time. Both were 1.9s. Haven't seen any before or since!

[zellamay]

[QUOTE=cyberman;30559292]I overpaid by a good $3500 on my 96 from a dealer. The dealers and many private sellers overprice quite a bit. I should have shopped longer and been willing to travel further. You have to be really hard-nosed and be willing to walk.
I wish more people knew what you now know. I would never buy from a dealer. If I win the lottery, I'll send someone else to get me a new car because I won't go near those places. And as far as advice for dealing with a dealer, forget it. It's like going in the ring with Muhammad Ali. They are trained and skilled to handle whatever you do. By definition, you are paying a lot more than the PO sold it for. The only way to "win" is to walk out. If you leave with a "deal", you have just been screwed. Now, dealers have a purpose for some people, but just know you are paying a lot for what you get.

[s8ilver]

I wish more people knew what you now know. I would never buy from a dealer. If I win the lottery, I'll send someone else to get me a new car because I won't go near those places. And as far as advice for dealing with a dealer, forget it. It's like going in the ring with Muhammad Ali. They are trained and skilled to handle whatever you do. By definition, you are paying a lot more than the PO sold it for. The only way to "win" is to walk out. If you leave with a "deal", you have just been screwed. Now, dealers have a purpose for some people, but just know you are paying a lot for what you get.

I've bought one car from a dealer, and it happened to be a great experience and actually was a deal. It was a low production car that I searched for for over a year. I thought I found 'the one' in CA. I booked a one way ticket, and the day before I was going to fly out, another car popped up in Boulder at a dealer. They handed me the keys, and I gave it a good one-hour shakedown. The price was certainly fair, and I even negotiated $1k off with zero fees, all dependent on a PPI that I had done at a local independent. Car was immaculate, under market, and gave me 8 trouble-free years before I sold it on BAT.

Just saying, dealers suck for the most part, but there are good ones out there.

[pine1000]

There are some around the Charlotte area: https://charlotte.craigslist.org/sea...title_status=1

Z3 roadsters are breaking into the enthusiast/collector market and prices are going up for good ones.

[ProductUser]

Like any business, dealerships will try to make as much of a profit as possible. As Zellamay states, they're really good at their craft. Salespeople will change their tactics based on many traits they identify from the car buyer. Body language, words you use in your conversation, how you dress...etc., are just a few inputs used to get you to buy that car

Always remember, everyone wants your money; it's your job to keep as much of it as you can

[BladeRunner919]

I don't know about the USA, but there seems to be a shortage of 'special interest' cars (ie, cars that aren't a boring run-about, but attract a specific buyer) in the market. Three years ago I sold a good condition 1998 Range Rover (Second generation, P38 model) for £2,400. I want to buy something similar now, I'm looking at £5k and over. I don't believe that they have really appreciated that much in three years, but that there is a shortage coming up for sale. Same goes for a few cars that I'd like to own.

[amancuso]

I just picked up a nice 71k mile 96 1.9 5mt here in South Jersey. Car was garaged most of it's life but has some issues. No rust, top in good shape. Fixing it up for sale.

[shaggyswag]

I feel very lucky. I just purchased mine for $3500 with 117,000 miles. Pre-purchase from BMW indy shop only showed one significant negative, the Yaw sensor (I'll find a used one). The roof was vandalized (reason for lower price), it works fine, I always drive with it down anyways, will replace though.

Drives excellent and body is great (after a full day of claying, compound, polish, etc.) The under carriage is rust-free. It now looks and drives like a $50k+ roadster, I was totally lucky.

They're out there (it's rare to see one here). I was on the lookout and caught this one an hour after listing on CL.

You'll find one!

z3 forum.jpg

[CoconutPete]

Always a handful for sale around here.

Problem is most of them suffer from Craigslist syndrome. 150K miles, beat to sh!t. They want $12K for it because "this is a classic collectible that will go up in value".

Needless to say when I found my "well loved but well maintained" $5K one I pounced on it a little over a year ago.

[cyberman]

Good general question though. I've been wondering just how many Z's are still on the road. There is a UK site that tracks number left by year in the UK - you can see the decline from 2010 through 2020 here: https://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=BMW+Z3

I found the link via this discussion thread: https://zroadster.net/forum/viewtopi...44304&p=408954

The site uses the term 'SORN', and defines it as Statutory Off Road Notification (SORN) so I assume that means that class is parked, but still exist. I think one can conclude from the graph here (Tax/Sorn tab): https://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/vehicl..._roadster#!tax which applies to the M Roadster.

Looking at that graph, I realized more than half are left: In 2002, total licensed is 639 (SORN not available, but probably low at that point). And in 2020, Licenses + SORN = 509 so we're seeing an average decline of ~1.1% (check my math) per year for the 18 years. Since this is just one model, in one country, I'd take it as a rough guide. Knowing the sales figures in a country, applying this reduction rate and the age of the model may, repeat may, allow one to estimate remaining numbers.

[Tigershark48]

Regarding under carriage rust, always demand pictures. I've looked at a lot of really nice classic cars that were rotting out underneath. One New England dealer insisted the bottom was clean and provided pictures when pressed. When I said the rust was unacceptable, both dealership owners (brothers) emailed me, insisting the rust was minor and the car was very clean underneath. It was not clean and I said no deal. There were no bottom pics in the ad with the Z that I ended up with. The dealer took pictures for me and it was immaculate. I was surprised, since rusty ones rarely include pictures. The OP drove a long distance to see the rust. Had I known better at the time of purchase, I also would have requested pics of the trunk spot welds. I lucked out and they were, and still are, fine.

Try cargurus.com in your search. That's where I found mine.

[cyberman]

Needless to say when I found my "well loved but well maintained" $5K one I pounced on it a little over a year ago.

That's the key with deals, patience! Eventually a great deal will appear. I wasn't patient and am paying the price now.

It was not clean and I said no deal.

That was one thing I lucked out on as I didn't inspect it well. It was originally an Orlando car and every time a mechanic has put it on a hoist the first comment is "wow, this thing is very clean". No leaks and no rust.