Z3M - clutch engagement on the floor

[patriottt]

I greet everyone !!! At the beginning I apologize for the bad English, I use the translator.
I bought a Z3M with an S52 engine (US version) and from the beginning I had a problem with the clutch - the clutch was disengaged when the pedal was on the floor. I put the car in a professional service, it was replaced:
- both clutch cylinders
- hose (new reinforced version)
- pressure plate
- clutch lemala
- release bearing
- lever
- pin
Only the flywheel was not replaced. The flywheel has been measured and is in perfect condition. OEM part numbers correspond to original parts (SACHS).
Special tools and a BMW procedure were used for everything. The problem is still the same. The clutch disengages when the pedal is almost on the floor. There is no air in the system. The slave cylinder works from the beginning of depressing the pedal.
BMW Technical Support recommends comparing the engagement point with another Z3M. Can anyone create a video where the shot of the clutch is?
Did anyone have the same problem ??? Please, give me an advice.
Pavel

[jclausen]

When the pedal is pressed to the floor the clutch is disengaged when the pedal is released the clutch is engaged, either your not explaining your problem with the clutch correctly or you don’t have a problem

[khammack]

When the pedal is pressed to the floor the clutch is disengaged when the pedal is released the clutch is engaged, either your not explaining your problem with the clutch correctly or you don’t have a problem

I believe it is clear that the OP is saying that the clutch is disengaging/engaging at a point closer to the floor than is expected.

OP, you may want to check to see if a previous owner installed a clutch stop which will cause the clutch peddle to stop closer to the engagement point. Many people seem to install the stop, but I don't see the point. My clutch does engage low in its travel, but is still about two inches above the carpet.

[patriottt]

To disconnect, I had to remove the stop pin. Disconnection occurs when the pedal is positioned completely on the floor. I used to have a Z3 1.8L and the disconnection took place in about 2/3 of the pedal travel.

[rf900rkw]

Disconnect point should be very much like your 1.8. At least 20-30mm from the floor.


Three common causes of a low clutch

Bad rubber hose. We recommend the PTFE lined stainless steel version.

Bad bleeding, air in the line. Some people have a very hard time being smarter than air.

Worn clutch pivot pin. Part

21511223328 https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/showparts?id=CK93-USA-11-1998-Z3-BMW-Z3_M&diagId=21_005

[zellamay]

The first guess is always that it has not been properly bled. If your mechanic is not familiar with these clutches, that may be the problem. You say "hose (new reinforced version)", so I hope you mean the stainless steel one. You list "pin" as a replaced part, so that should be good. From rf900's list above, that leaves "bad bleeding" as the probable cause. I just "reverse bleed" and it works for me. Here are a couple of threads on bleeding: https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...ted-Out-Normal ... https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...1#post27938021

[bluptgm3]

My impression is that you need to bleed the slave, and do so by removing the slave and inverting it to bleed the air.

Not a big fan of pushing fluid back to the reservoir.


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[patriottt]

Disconnect point should be very much like your 1.8. At least 20-30mm from the floor.


Three common causes of a low clutch

Bad rubber hose. We recommend the PTFE lined stainless steel version.

Bad bleeding, air in the line. Some people have a very hard time being smarter than air.

Worn clutch pivot pin. Part

21511223328 https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/showparts?id=CK93-USA-11-1998-Z3-BMW-Z3_M&diagId=21_005

Hello, all red marked parts are new. I have the vehicle in one of the largest authorized BMW repair shops in the Czech Republic and I assume that they performed the bleeding correctly. Spare parts are directly from BMW.
Pic_01.JPGPic_02.JPG

I ordered this hose yesterday:
https://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-5...utch-line-e36/


Can't there be a problem with the pedal? For example, excessive loosening in the pin?

[bluptgm3]

Well could be the OE plastic clutch peddle bushing. Could replace them with something like these .
Or get a Mason Engineering GSP clutch pedal


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[KeysCoupe]

My car (Z3M) had the same symtoms; clutch engagement just about bottomed out on the floor. With 1/2 hour of driving and everything hot, the car would creep when in 1st gear and the clutch pedal solid to the floor.
I replaced the flexible line by the slave with a new one from a 2.8 Z3. I had a rough time bleeding all the air out, even with the slave unbolted/inverted with bleed screw up. The final solution was to unbolt the slave, install a tool to compress the slave piston all the way, then bleed the assembly. Success!
-Donny

[patriottt]

My car (Z3M) had the same symtoms; clutch engagement just about bottomed out on the floor. With 1/2 hour of driving and everything hot, the car would creep when in 1st gear and the clutch pedal solid to the floor.
I replaced the flexible line by the slave with a new one from a 2.8 Z3. I had a rough time bleeding all the air out, even with the slave unbolted/inverted with bleed screw up. The final solution was to unbolt the slave, install a tool to compress the slave piston all the way, then bleed the assembly. Success!
-Donny

Thank you for more advice !! The stainless steel line is on its way to me. Bleeding with a fully compressed slave cylinder is interesting - I'll do it too !!! Perhaps I will also be able to write at the end - SUCCESS !!!

[rf900rkw]

Inverting the slave cylinder so that the bleed screw hex is up, while VERY popular, will not get the job done. In fact, it won't change a thing. This is because the location that matters is where the bleeder drilling intersects the working bore, not where the open end of the bleeder is in space. In the case of most (all?) of the original Z3 cylinders (*), the bleeder bore drilling doesn't enter the working cylinder at all. It intersects with the fluid inlet drilling; pretty much the centerline of the bore. This is why you have to compress the piston to the bottom of the bore. That is the only way to remove the trapped air from the bore itself.

(*) There are other era's of BMW and aftermarket cylinders that are drilled differently. These require different bleeding procedures. Compressing the piston will not hurt on any I've seen, but may not be the cure-all for everything.

[MrDangles]

Is it possible air is getting past the threads of the bleeder? I’ve always been told to put oil on the threads to prevent this from happening. I did this with a syringe and a hose and I pushed the fluid up through the bleeder forcing the air up into the reservoir.

[bluptgm3]

Is it possible air is getting past the threads of the bleeder?

Typically, the brake caliper bleed orifice has a tapper seat that matches the brake bleeder screw (BBS), which has a bleed passage in the sidewall rather than the end of the BBS.



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[Vintage42]

Well could be the OE plastic clutch peddle bushing. Could ... get a Mason Engineering GSP clutch pedal

I did not realize they were still available outside of a group buy which the forum did in 2010 and 2016. Since installing mine with bronze bushings, I have never given the clutch another thought - it is rock steady, smooth and quiet.

[rf900rkw]

Fix The Problem (FtP), don't mask it with aftermarket parts.

[Johnny the K]

I had the same problem. I had to press the clutch pedal all the way to the floor. I took the car to a BMW dealer. They replaced the flexible line with a new one and bled the system. Now the clutch releases about half way down. You need to find someone that knows how to correctly bleed the clutch system. It is tricky to do and you need someone that knows what they are doing. I would NEVER attempt to bleed the clutch system by myself.

[Vintage42]

Fix The Problem (FtP), don't mask it with aftermarket parts.

The problem was squeaky-dry, sloppy-worn bushings in the OE plastic pedal. The solid aftermarket delrin plastic or oilite sintered bronze bushings are improvements over the soft slit OE bushings.
The OE plastic clutch pedal was not a problem, but had to come out for the bushings. It was a good time to put in the steel Mason pedal, which does have a better feel.
As the review says, "All in all, the pedal has completely transformed the car."
http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...h-Pedal-Review