H&R Touring Cup Suspension - Pics of body roll on track inside E36

[HandsomeMike]

In case you’ve wondered what an E36 with this suspension looks like when cornering, here you go. This is at NCM Motorsports Park in KY last Saturday. Other than the touring cup kit I have a 28mm front bar. 473460AD-C3E2-482F-9098-D91793B9DF25.jpg4A9B67B9-0AEB-4592-AD0D-6709A24B7EBD.jpg

[aeronaut]

Looks like you're having fun!
Not surprising with that kit. My friends stock E46 323 drags its mirrors.
Less body roll is not an end goal. It's a trade-off.

[poweredbyg60]

thats why my cup set is back in a box... you are up on the curbs as you should be, get some more on T1. that your first visit to NCM?
NCM is a great track. unfortunately last sep was my last visit, onto the tracks of florida.

[HandsomeMike]

First time at NCM. Going back on 8/8. I’ve been watching videos of Andy Pilgrim driving various cars at NCM and he’s straddling the curb in 1a. It makes it a much straighter entrance. Is that what you do?

[poweredbyg60]

ahh first time.. great. already going back that is awesome! i have a OMP seat and some TR wheels Falken wrapped. if ya need some cheap stuff.
one of my laps i have a couple others also.. but yeah im aiming to set my RF tire on the inside of the curb. just to miss the dirt drop.

[bimmerboy318]

First time at NCM. Going back on 8/8. I’ve been watching videos of Andy Pilgrim driving various cars at NCM and he’s straddling the curb in 1a. It makes it a much straighter entrance. Is that what you do?

The line to watch is the turn-by-turn 3 episode series by Matt Busby on NCMs YouTube channel.

[HandsomeMike]

PoweredbyG60 - Thanks for the video. If I replace the seat, do I have to replace the passenger with the same type seat for an instructor? I think I’ve read this before about HPDE rules.

Bimmerboy318 - checking out those vids now. Thanks!

[bimmerboy318]

PoweredbyG60 - Thanks for the video. If I replace the seat, do I have to replace the passenger with the same type seat for an instructor? I think I’ve read this before about HPDE rules.

Bimmerboy318 - checking out those vids now. Thanks!

Met you there that weekend. My wife was instructing in the TC Kline bannered F80. Embrace the roll as the E36 really needs it in the rear to make it stick. Ride height and camber will help. Shim put your struts to get more negative camber than the camber played allow. That curbing at 1A is all or nothing. I get the entire car and then some on that curb and just lift for 1B. But I run my springs pretty soft per TC Kline. Stiffer suspensions cars should just avoid the curb all together and trail brake in. Next time you see me at track hop in the car with me.

[HandsomeMike]

Ah yes!!! Good to hear from you. Will you be there on 8/8? The best alignment I could get stock was -1.6 front and -1.3 rear. .05 toe in front. Don’t remember the rear but it was in the factory range. Ride height is low. The factory sport suspension was lower than non-sport and the H&R kit lowered it about another .5-.75”. The car felt great and was super predictable. I think a harness bar or seat is the only upgrade I’m looking at now while I’m learning. I was sliding around in my seat and using the wheel to steer the car and hold myself in place.

I’ll run up all over that curb on the 8th!

[poweredbyg60]

ah yes most clubs require equal safety. you can do a couple things to make your seat belt tighter to help the seat sliding. get the belt to lock and power seat forward to tighten a bit, there are some buckles things you can add to the belts that tighten them also...
i went a ton of times with my OMP seat and 3 pt belts routed in the seat openings. please consider a roll versus harness bar, plenty of threads with info on this.
yes shim the front struts for cheap camber, bimmerworld sells some or cheap some washers and longer bolts.
enjoy the track days!

[bimmerboy318]

Ah yes!!! Good to hear from you. Will you be there on 8/8? The best alignment I could get stock was -1.6 front and -1.3 rear. .05 toe in front. Don’t remember the rear but it was in the factory range. Ride height is low. The factory sport suspension was lower than non-sport and the H&R kit lowered it about another .5-.75”. The car felt great and was super predictable. I think a harness bar or seat is the only upgrade I’m looking at now while I’m learning. I was sliding around in my seat and using the wheel to steer the car and hold myself in place.

I’ll run up all over that curb on the 8th!

Alignment... Did you have camber plates? Get some washers and longer bolts. Just search e36 camber shim. Adding 1.0mm will give another -1/2 degree. And your toe will come to near zero as you have a smidge of toe in at the moment. Look at Ben Sipson for a half cage. Although I think there is a Kirk cage in TN somewhere in the classifieds.

Weight reduction is real and when I lost 400lbs, I lost 4 seconds at NCM, and could really tell when under braking.

I won’t be there 8/8. I’ll be instructing at Putnam with 1010ths on 8/1.

[HandsomeMike]

Id go with a roll bar but still want my back seat to be usable. I put around town on the weekends in this car too with the wife and kiddo. Are you anti harness bar due to some posts about it being dangerous in a rollover? Does your OMP come with the frame and brackets too so I done have to fabricate anything? Just out of curiosity, PM me a price shipped to 37075. If the seat works with a factory 3 point belt, its something to think about being as I'd just like to be held in place.

Bimmerboy, weight reduction and cage are not in the plans. At least not anytime soon. I still want a comfortable, streetable car.

[bimmerboy318]

Id go with a roll bar but still want my back seat to be usable. I put around town on the weekends in this car too with the wife and kiddo. Are you anti harness bar due to some posts about it being dangerous in a rollover? Does your OMP come with the frame and brackets too so I done have to fabricate anything? Just out of curiosity, PM me a price shipped to 37075. If the seat works with a factory 3 point belt, its something to think about being as I'd just like to be held in place.

Bimmerboy, weight reduction and cage are not in the plans. At least not anytime soon. I still want a comfortable, streetable car.

For street car, go with a reclining sport seat from Corbeau and use their mount and slider. Seat won’t be perfectly centered though. Keep the 3 points and use a CG lock or twist the buckle to “lock” it.

The other option (And cheaper) is go with a Schroth 4 point. And only Schroth. It is popular and purpose built for E36’s.

And the cheapest option yet, and the one we used in our F80 for 3 yrs prior was to use tool box mesh drawer liner. Lay it on the seat bottom and lower back.

[HandsomeMike]

The Schroth Quick Fit 4-point? That looks like the easiest way to hold me in place for now. Those Corbeau seats are expensive for the recliners! Then add another $248 for mounts/sliders. Geez!

[bimmerboy318]

Id go with a roll bar but still want my back seat to be usable. I put around town on the weekends in this car too with the wife and kiddo. Are you anti harness bar due to some posts about it being dangerous in a rollover? Does your OMP come with the frame and brackets too so I done have to fabricate anything? Just out of curiosity, PM me a price shipped to 37075. If the seat works with a factory 3 point belt, its something to think about being as I'd just like to be held in place.

Bimmerboy, weight reduction and cage are not in the plans. At least not anytime soon. I still want a comfortable, streetable car.

The Schroth Quick Fit 4-point? That looks like the easiest way to hold me in place for now. Those Corbeau seats are expensive for the recliners! Then add another $248 for mounts/sliders. Geez!

Yes, the quick fit. The only club that may not allow quick fits is Porsche club. But leave the 3 points in for them. Quick fits are “quick” to remove when not in use. And still use tool box drawer mesh over leather... it helps!

This is tracking... everything is expensive! I just don’t look at my credit card statements.

[HandsomeMike]

I don't look at the statements either. But my wife does!

I do have a birthday coming up in September though. She can't argue with that!

One more thing, do I have to get one for the passenger side too for equal safety rules for an instructor?

[Haifisch M3]

PoweredbyG60 - Thanks for the video. If I replace the seat, do I have to replace the passenger with the same type seat for an instructor? I think I’ve read this before about HPDE rules.

Bimmerboy318 - checking out those vids now. Thanks!

I believe that is only true if you install a harness. I have a race seat and original passenger seat and since I only use stock seat-belts both front seats have the same safety.

[HandsomeMike]

Update- went back to NCM Saturday. With high temp brake fluid and Hawk HP+ on the car now instead of stock fluid and street pads, and taking a better line straddling the curb in 1a, I dropped 6 seconds off my lap time. My best was 2:52.512. I’m getting there! Still need to address the harness or GC lock to hold me in place. And the pads squeaked like hell and the front left started to feel like it was chattering. They were better than the street pads but I was not a super fan.

[bimmerboy318]

Update- went back to NCM Saturday. With high temp brake fluid and Hawk HP+ on the car now instead of stock fluid and street pads, and taking a better line straddling the curb in 1a, I dropped 6 seconds off my lap time. My best was 2:52.512. I’m getting there! Still need to address the harness or GC lock to hold me in place. And the pads squeaked like hell and the front left started to feel like it was chattering. They were better than the street pads but I was not a super fan.

When are you there again? I’ll ride with you communicator and all. Driving line is everything! Stop looking at laptimes. Learn the line, as I have a feeling that no one has truly shown you. Slow is fast. The easiest places to make up time at NCM are the fast corners. Slow corners will always be slow.

Turn 5 - slow yourself, turn-in, get flat on the gas, open to exit and look for your braking reference, brake hard, get ready to turn in for late apex for 6. If you can turn the wheel, you can go flat and the car will hold. If you feel tires scrubbing at turn in, don’t gas and go slower next lap. You’re starting too fast, start slow.

Turn 8 - don’t take the Busby line and hug the apex. Stay right and L shape the turn to get a run at the mini straight before 10.

Turn 16 - scrub some speed at turn 15, stay left, brake hard, stay left, turn in for 16, then flat on gas. Look for brake marker for 17, brake and downshift to 3rd. Braking at 15 is not the “pro” way but you will get in lower times faster as 16 won’t be so intimidating. Remember I said slow is fast? Going fast at 15 only to slow to a crawl for 16 is the slow way. Slightly slower at 15 and fast 16 is faster. Hug the curbing on the right for 16. Too far out and the negative banking pulls the car away.

Turn 23 - this sets time you up for the straight. Stay left, Alex late, and look ahead to the start/finish tower. Work your way to getting on the gas earlier and earlier. It’s scaring because the concrete wall is there but it’s not a demanding turn g-force wise so you have grip. Apex late and get a straight shit at the finish line. Gaining 1mph here gives you 1mph down the entire straight.

Your e36 just the way it is can comfortable do 2:32s all day!

But really, let’s hook up at the track! Just glad to see another e36 out here.

[HandsomeMike]

Possibly November 7th with BingeTokyo.

Separate question, do you lube the guide pins for your calipers? I’m wondering if they aided in the chattering and squeaking. Those Hawk pads were squeaking even at speed on track. Maybe the calipers aren’t moving as free as they should?

Great write up on the corners. I will read this again while watching my on board video.

[HandsomeMike]

Uploaded the video. Here’s the link. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKd51z6RLhg

[bimmerboy318]

I instruct with 1010ths so I’ll be back in October I think.

You do lube them but with high temp caliper grease or copper colored never seize. However, the stock bushings are made of rubber so I doubt that’s the reason. I use bronze bushings with stock pins and copper never seize to help alleviate pad taper. However, I still “rotate” my pads every 2 track days. They chatter and squeak likely because they’re not being used hard enough. That’s how my DTC-70 act when it’s cold or raining out. I have to literally hammer on them to stop squeaking/chatter. Lots of guys have had great success with StopTech Track Day pads. And they are very affordable. They feel more like a street pad but can handle higher temps. $75 per axle set.

[HandsomeMike]

I wanted to go in Oct with 10/10ths but I'll be on a family vacation.

I did some research and I was beginning to wonder if I wasn't braking hard enough. When I bedded in the pads at home, I was easily getting into ABS. At the track I was not engaging ABS. Maybe I need to loosen the reigns a little more on my manhood and brake later and harder! I'm going to get some new discs this week to put on when putting my street pads back in to eliminate the chance of it being a warped rotor.

[bimmerboy318]

No chance it’s warped. It’s pad deposits. If you used coated rotors the anti rust coating may have glazed your pads. Will need to remove them and rough up the surface with a angle grinder wheel. Or rub them on 80grit sand paper on the ground. I use the cheapest made in China rotors from rockauto I can find and get 12 weekends on 2 sets of race pads before they crack.

[HandsomeMike]

Cool. I’ll just sand paper the rotors when I switch the pads then. Thanks!