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hi all, i am super excited to be able to post here in the forced induction section. i am a long time reader of the forums and contribute what i can to mostly just the drifting section . im posting a build thread here for my brother's 1997 318ti california edition. i have been working on e30's and e36's for a while now but this is our first time boosting something.
a little background on the car; most maintenance done, cooling system, gaskets, bushings, mounts, upgraded brakes, e30 diff and axles, bump steer and roll center correction, 40% quicker steering, z3 rack, e46 control arms, overfenders, etc. we swapped in the m52 about 5 years ago. at that time we refreshed the head and head gasket and did lots of maintenance on the motor. only modifications are s52 cams, m50 manifold, shorty headers and 22rpd tune.
after talking with 22rpd we decided to supercharge it. he sold us a kit he had laying around and we are going to try to get 12psi out of it for starters then bump it up to 20psi in the future. the kit is an old dinan with a vortech v2. we have a 2.87 pulley for 12psi. 22rpd sent us a 3.5" maf and 80lb injectors for e85 and we are hoping for 300whp from the 2.8 with stock 328 midsection(gutted cats) and z3 muffler. we plan on changing the exhaust as soon as we have the fuel system sorted. I also got some timing blocks from "some guy" so ill be retarding the exhaust cam 10 degrees and retarding the intake cam 4 degrees.
we are hoping you guys can help us with the fuel system. we are looking for suggestions for a fuel filter and we are curious if the stock lines and fuel rail will be enough? we would like to build the fuel system to be able to handle 600whp on e85. we will eventually build a motor(more displacement, higher compression, big cams) with 20psi and e85 so hoping for 600whp.
Last edited by E36M3LX; 08-19-2020 at 12:10 PM. Reason: pics
Member
A walbro 485, stock fuel rail, and upgraded lines will get you to 600whp, however you may possibly want to look at bigger injectors at that point. It’s also a good idea to run an E85 rated adjustable fpr like an aeromotive unit.
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thanks for your advice. we will throw in a walbro 485 with its own relay and run stock fuel system until we go for that 20psi. there are some "genuine" walbro's on ebay for under $150, are these legitimate or is there a trustworthy supplier that anyone recommends?
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Originally Posted by E36M3LX
https://rallyroad.net/collections/fuel-system/products/walbro485lphfuelpumpwithe36installkit
You can probably send them an email and just buy the pump itself.
Member
thanks! we got the pump from rally road and finally got the supercharger back from 928 motorsports. We just had Zack re-flash it for us today, so it's almost time to bolt it all together, throw some e85 in it and fire it up.
what wideband do you guys recommend? we have two other gauges we will be installing; water temp and boost, but not sure what wideband to go with.
also, the supercharger has a sticker on it saying to oil the supercharger before use. can we just crank the motor a few times with no fuel pump to prime the supercharger?
thanks a lot guys!
sorry about the knee lol
Last edited by E36M3LX; 08-19-2020 at 12:28 PM.
Member
You could pull the fuel pump relay and crank her over a few times to prime the oiling system.
I’ve always used AEM and PLX, but innovate is recommended heavily now as well. Can’t go wrong with either brand.
photos please!
Last edited by 1SLWM3; 08-14-2020 at 12:05 AM.
Member
You could also start the motor without a belt on the blower. Even if it runs off your accessory drive, it won’t hurt to run the motor for 30 seconds without a water pump or alternator or PS. If the starter cranks 300 rpm, a V2 blower with a 6!8inch crank and 3 inch blower pulley will be doing about 2000 rpm. If you just start the motor and it does a 1000 rpm cold start idle, the impeller would be turning about 7000 rpm.
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great, thanks for the info! what do you guys use to embed photos? i tried posting them as attachments but it looks like its not working on the mobile app.
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I updated a couple posts with photos, hopefully they work for the mobile app.
We painted some of the brackets while we waited for the SC to show up and ordered a new hardware kit so it doesn't look like my kid put it together.
Member
BMW E36 M3 Expert
You're really over boosted for the Dinan pulley and tensioner configuration. Even 10psi pulley setup struggles to maintain grip. You have no upgrade path with the Dinan brackets either as the 8-rib crank pulley options you see from RMS (and others) are not compatible with the Dinan bracket spacing (anyone who says otherwise is full of shit, and that includes Osh himself). You'll need to switch to an RMS bracket and tensioner setup to further your boost goals.
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yea we just got it running this weekend and we are already having belt slip issues. really thought we could trust our tuner but the pulley configuration he sold us clearly isn't going to work.
I am getting tons of conflicting information, very frustrating. 928 motorsports, Osh at RMS, our tuner, this thread and my own personal research are all giving me different answers. We thought we could eventually push this v2 to 20psi, but its looking more like 14psi is the max. Very disappointing when we originally thought we were being sold a kit that can support 12psi...
Continuing my research to see if we can get anymore than 14psi out of this set up. I will continue to update, we are already looking at the RMS set up, but it's a ton of money for only 14psi. If anyone has any solid information, please share.
anyone got any turbo parts for trade??? LOL
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BMW E36 M3 Expert
Sounds par for the course with these guys.
Member
So we decided to go with a 14psi pulley set up from Osh at RMS. RMS bracket, 7.5" crank pulley, 3.6" SC pulley, 8 rib, etc. Vortech says the v2 should be able to spin 52,000 rpm max and we are going to spin it to 54,000 rpm. I will try to update next week after we hopefully get everything together this weekend... again.
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BMW E36 M3 Expert
Did you already buy the pulleys from OSH? I have them for sale. I have some modded high grip 8-rib sc side pulleys too.So we decided to go with a 14psi pulley set up from Osh at RMS. RMS bracket, 7.5" crank pulley, 3.6" SC pulley, 8 rib, etc. Vortech says the v2 should be able to spin 52,000 rpm max and we are going to spin it to 54,000 rpm. I will try to update next week after we hopefully get everything together this weekend... again.
https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...MS-and-ERT-ESS
Don't take his 7.5" claims too seriously. I'm fairly certain the one I have was advertised as a 7.5" as well. His pulleys all vary in size lol.
Last edited by Braymond141; 09-03-2020 at 07:45 PM.
Member
sorry, yes we had already bought the pulleys from osh. that's funny his pulleys vary in sizes. i double checked the one we got from him and it measured in at 7.5".
we got the car back together this weekend, she's a ripper! still need to do the fuel pump, filter and relay before we rip on it too much. but for now we are seeing 14psi at 3k rpm and 15psi up near 6k rpm. no belt slip yet with the RMS bracket/tensioner, 8 rib, 7.5" crank pulley and 3.6" SC pulley.
we put a big CSF radiator in it with a 16" spal pusher(2k CFM) on the front of the AC condenser, no more room for the mechanical fan obviously. temps are holding steady at 190-200F. we will upgrade cooling system as needed, hoping for plenty of track time this winter!!
Member
Something is wrong if you see 14 psi with a centrifugal at 3000 rpm and 15 psi at 6000 rpm. In fact, there is no way you could see 14 psi at 3000 rpm. You probably would not even see 4 psi at 3000 rpm with pulleys to give 15 psi at 6000 rpm.
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honestly i was surprised too because i didnt think they made boost like that.. we are using autometer gauges, should be accurate right? lol not sure why its showing so much boost at that rpm. what brand does everyone use for boost gauges?
Member
I am not sure what is wrong but something is wrong since what you are seeing defies science. Theoretically, if you get 15 psi at 6000, you should get about 3.9 psi at 3000 rpm with a centrifugal.
Last edited by pbonsalb; 09-10-2020 at 09:37 AM.
Member
I'm using VDO since it matches stock gauges. All my turbo build cars have Autometer Sport Comps, never had a problem.
'98 RMS stage 2+++++(491whp/390tq VAC cams, CES Cutring-9:1, Built blower, Meth etc)
'09 Saab 9-5 Combi 5mt 1 of 1(Built Motor, Brembos, LSD, the works!)
'22 Cadillac CT4-V BlackWing 6mt
'22 Cadillac CT4 2.0T Sport AWD (wife's)
Member
If the gauge is digital and your 15 psi is really the peak boost you get at redline of 7000 rpm, maybe you are seeing 1.4 psi at 3000 rpm, which might be about right. I am making a couple of assumptions here so this explanation may not work.
Member
I'll update with videos as soon as we really get to drive this thing. We just put in new spark plugs, NGK 4091 gapped at .025
I still need to throw the fuel pump in it, it's throwing a code for bank 2 fuel trims. Once we get it all dialed in, it's going to castro motorsports for exhaust and dyno tune.
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One thing worth mentioning as I've been dealing with this in my E30... the stock fuel pump wiring has a +12v lead out of the fuel pump relay that is 2.5mm^2 - which comes out to 14 AWG wire. From what I gather the 450 - 485 pumps draw about 14A at 13.5v and 40 psi, so figure about 14 - 15A at 14v and 50 psi or something. You get the idea. But, 14 AWG is awfully light for that kind of pump. I see the Rallyroad kit comes with a sleeve but nothing about the power connectivity at the pump hanger. I just worry 14 AWG is going to drop voltage at the pump with that kind of load on it, and potentially make for a nice warm wire if it truly pulls that kind of load.
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thanks for the info! IIRC stock fuel pump only needs 15 amps and most aftermarket pumps are closer to 30 amps. We will be using a spal fan relay harness kit that is good for up to 40 amps with a 30 amp fuse(or whatever our walbro needs) and I'll be stealing the fuel pump signal straight from the DME so we can bypass all of the original fuel pump circuitry for obvious reasons.
Member
Yep doing something similar - however, let me guide you into my mind of paranoia and "doing it right"-edness lol.
So I am using 12 AWG from a 50A Hella relay/socket with the original +12v trigger off the DME controlling that, straight off the battery. However, if I preserve the stock electrical connector into the hanger (on my E30) it's a 1.5mm^2 wire inside that electrical connector for both +12v and GND. The GND lands on the hanger right at the connector on top of the pump cover. So, even if I run a fatty wire to the connector I will have to have at least 1" or so of thin wire for the pump to attach to.
So then you might think - no problem, I'll use something like this:
BUT, what I have learned through my experience with those types of bulkhead connectors is that the fuel will enter the wire at the connector, at some point, and actually wick up the stranded wire. It will also do it on the insulation, even though the bulkhead is "tight" around each jacket the wire does not conform 100% and will expand/contract due to fuel/etc. and you will eventually end up with fuel vapor/stink coming out of the wire itself. Now, you've got a gasoline impregnated wire carrying voltage that could spark/arc and ... well.. you get it.
I am working on a couple different solutions for my setup. I will post pictures and info if you care once I have made more progress on it. I am not turboing (yet) the E30 in question, just trying to get it reliable with a Walbro 255 LPH, but it draws like 8A at 14v @ 51 psi and start-up current is as high as 16 - 20A potentially. So, I just want to make sure that the cabling supporting my setup will support the amp draw it could see if turbo. Remember, pressurizing the FPR means you will increase FP over atmospheric base pressure - right now my E30 24v is NA, so the most it'll see is ~51 - 53 psi at WOT, but if I was to boost it, it could go up to 70 psi which would draw more current as the pump fights the line pressure.
Anyway, I know people have just dropped upgraded in-tank pumps in and forget about it, I just don't want an issue and don't want voltage drop at the pump.
I am machining things and welding things to give me more solid connections, but the E36 doesn't have that luxury having a plastic hanger top.
Anywho...
Member
Does not have to be over complicated. Look at the picture in post #10 in the link below.
https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...etup-look-like
Chikinhed does something similar. I will probably do this also when I redo my fuel lines. For the relay, I use the stock wiring to turn the relay on run a new heavier gauge power wire from the battery to the relay, with a local heavy gauge pump ground.
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