Clutch

[sdhweb]

Hello,

I have a 1992 E34 M5. As I've learned these came with a 5-speed manual transmission except for the 1995 model. My car has the 6 speed gearbox from the 1995.

Does anyone know if the clutch will still fit? If I order a clutch for my 1992 (originally 5-speed), will it still fit even though my car has the 6-speed gearbox?

I'm looking to buy this one (D=240mm):


Koblingssæt - 21212226428A

Koblingssæt - 21212226428A
koed.no




Sorry the language is Danish/Norwegian but I am from Norway.

[moroza]

Factory clutch kit 21212227246 is unique to the 6-speed S38 transmission and is the correct part for you, but probably expensive (ECS tuning has it for ~7000 NOK, before shipping, supposedly in stock). However, the clutch disk 21212226958 itself is shared with E36 M3 5-speed, which means it's physically compatible with any 310Z, 320Z, or 250G transmissions. The release bearing 21512226729 is only for S14, S50, S52, and S38 engines, but it should be the same fitment as the clutch disk; I don't know why it isn't. The unique item appears to be the pressureplate 21212226957 (21212227009 and 21212226883 are older numbers), Sachs 3082 240 031 or LuK 124 0125 20. A brief search suggests it's hard to find, probably out of production.

I'm not sure, but it's possible the only thing special about the plate is a slightly higher spring rate, and any plate that comes in an M3 5-speed kit would work.

But first... what flywheel do you have? The kit you linked to is a sprung clutch for use with a solid flywheel. The factory 6-speed setup uses a sprung (dual-mass) flywheel and a solid clutch.

E36 M3 owners switching to a solid flywheel use the M5 5-speed clutch disk, meaning the splines and other geometry are compatible. What this means (someone check my logic here, please) is that you could use the flywheel and clutch setup for an M5 5-speed on your 6-speed. That is, the kit you linked to, and a matching flywheel (M30/S38 fitment). Regarding the possibility of using an M5x/S5x flywheel, my understanding is that M30/S38 and M5x/S5x flywheels are physically compatible except for the starter ring gear, and I'm not sure whether it'd be enough to use an M5x starter, or if something more complicated would be required.

[sdhweb]

Thanks for an extensive answer! I have to admit that I don't quite follow, but that is my fault. I don't know what kind of flywheel I have unfortunately. I guess I have to figure it out. I just bought the car and the previous owner is not the guy who installed the 6-speed tranny.

But you're saying that I potentially can use this clutch kit but I might have to change the flywheel into a dual-mass one unless this is present?

[moroza]

You should be able to use that clutch kit if you change the flywheel to a single-mass (solid), unless it already has one.

[sdhweb]

I THINK it already has a solid flywheel but I will try to get that confirmed. Thanks for your reply!

[moroza]

Depending on your preferences, I would recommend switching to a solid flywheel and sprung clutch anyway. The feel is better and the flywheel doesn't wear out (unlike the dual-mass), but there might be a bit of low-RPM noise, and the shifting will get a bit stiffer.

[sdhweb]

Yes, from what I've read I also think a solid flywheel is the best suitable option for this car :-)

[sdhweb]

Depending on your preferences, I would recommend switching to a solid flywheel and sprung clutch anyway. The feel is better and the flywheel doesn't wear out (unlike the dual-mass), but there might be a bit of low-RPM noise, and the shifting will get a bit stiffer.

Hello again,


I actually have some new information that I learned today which might complicate things. I learned today that one of the previous owners installed this flywheel to the car, and I got this info directly from him:


https://koed.no/no-no/product/520090240


The problem is that this flywheel is only compatible with the 3,6L engine according to Koed. How the previous owner managed to install this I am not sure. However, Koed says that the clutch I'm thinking of will not fit due to this, according to their papers. I'm not sure how easily I can get in contact with the previous owner. He might not be that responsive.


Also the standard flywheel seems to be a double-mass one and it's very expensive! I can't afford spending 1400 EUR in addition to a new clutch at the moment. Also I'm not keen on a double-mass flywheel because these are more likely to break from what I've read.


Any advice will be appreciated!

[moroza]

Yes, that does complicate things. I thought the M30, S38B36, and S38B38 had identical flywheel fitment, but now I'm not so sure. An M5 expert would have to chime in. It's possible the only difference is "stack height" (the combined length of the flywheel, pressureplate, and release bearing), and some random pressureplate with the 5-speed flywheel managed to work in the 6-speed.

Can you afford to have the car down for a few days? And does the clutch work ok (I assume it's just worn out)? The most reliable way to deal with this is to take it apart and see for yourself what's in there.

[sdhweb]

Yes, that does complicate things. I thought the M30, S38B36, and S38B38 had identical flywheel fitment, but now I'm not so sure. An M5 expert would have to chime in. It's possible the only difference is "stack height" (the combined length of the flywheel, pressureplate, and release bearing), and some random pressureplate with the 5-speed flywheel managed to work in the 6-speed.

Can you afford to have the car down for a few days? And does the clutch work ok (I assume it's just worn out)? The most reliable way to deal with this is to take it apart and see for yourself what's in there.

Hi, the clutch itself works OK but it's a racing clutch and I think it's too hard. Also the clutch release bearing is 'broken' so it makes a lot of rattling noises in neutral with the clutch released. Yeah, it's not my daily driver, but a garage will probably not be happy having it for too long. I think I've found out that a clutch kit for the 3,6L is what I need. Fingers crossed :-)

[sdhweb]

So, this week (#28 2020) I will hopefully have my clutch replaced, if it fits. I'll let you know the outcome.

[sdhweb]

So, the clutch fitted and works great. However, there is a new noise present when accelerating from low RPM in 2nd gear. It's hopefully possible to hear it in this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEF5imqLNZk


Thoughts?

[moroza]

I couldn't hear anything, but a rattle at high load and low RPM, sounding a bit like a diesel engine, is normal for these gearboxes with lighter flywheels (see previous comment). It depends on a few things, including fine differences in weight distribution between the old clutch and the new, their springs' spring rate, and other variables. Did you confirm that you have the JB Racing flywheel? Did you end up using the clutch linked in your first post? (Ingen problem; jeg snakker norsk, kan ikke forstå dansk men leser den, mer eller mindre).

[sdhweb]

I couldn't hear anything, but a rattle at high load and low RPM, sounding a bit like a diesel engine, is normal for these gearboxes with lighter flywheels (see previous comment). It depends on a few things, including fine differences in weight distribution between the old clutch and the new, their springs' spring rate, and other variables. Did you confirm that you have the JB Racing flywheel? Did you end up using the clutch linked in your first post? (Ingen problem; jeg snakker norsk, kan ikke forstå dansk men leser den, mer eller mindre).

Hi, cool that you speak Norwegian :-)

Yes, I ended up with that 3.6L Sachs-clutch in the picture. Yes, I do still have the JB racing flywheel installed.

Too bad you couldn't hear anything. It's more noticeable and clear in real life than on the video, but I think you can hear it on the video too. I wouldn't say it's necessarily high load because I'm barely touching the gas when accelerating.

- - - Updated - - -

by the way, the shifting itself (moving the gear stick) remains unchanged.

[sdhweb]

Hi, the replies suddenly died...?

[sdhweb]

New video:


This is Getrag S6 420G and this noise was not present with the previous clutch kit:



the noise should be present during the following seconds:




0:15 – 0:20


0:31 – 0:34


0:39 – 0:41


https://youtu.be/I4AcvOiijjY

[moroza]

I do hear something, but it sounds normal.

[sdhweb]

I guess the noise is a lot more clear in the real world than on the video, but I will not say it's normal. Part of the reason I'm saying that is because that noise wasn't present with the previous clutch.