Eibach Pro-Kit vs H&R Springs Better Upgrade from Msport Springs?

[peter540]

Related to another thread I started recently where I mentioned that, after "upgrading" my '03 540/6's suspension with Eibach Pro Kit springs and Koni Yellow shocks/struts, I mentioned that I felt the setup felt too soft -- and that the front bottomed out occasionally.

Others like JimLev are running H&R springs. In doing some research, I've discovered that, apparently, the Eibachs may truly be softer than my original Msport springs, and that the H&RS are firmer. Does anyone out there know?

--P

[BimmrMeUpSnotty]

When I had the Pro springs on my old 530, they were stiffer than the oem sport springs I had before I got the Eibachs. I have a new set of Eibach Pro springs still in a box, don't know when I'll put them on the other wagon. Before I dod that, I'll be installing the BC Racing coilovers that I got into my daily wagon, the green one. You have the Koni's dialed up properly?

[Jason5driver]

I have heard that the Eibach springs are pretty soft / low for the 540i's.
I don't think it is an issue for the inline-6 E39's though ?
I think Jim has the H&R race springs ?

[peter540]

I have heard that the Eibach springs are pretty soft / low for the 540i's.
I don't think it is an issue for the inline-6 E39's though ?
I think Jim has the H&R race springs ?

That's what I'm hearing too, Jason, and yes, Jim is running the H&Rs. They were even LOWER in the front than the Eibachs, which are also too low for my liking.

Snotty, yep, I've got the Konis dialed up. Didn't improve things much at all...

[JimLev]

The H&R I bought are the 50464 springs. IIRC they told be they were 15% stiffer than the OE sport springs that came on my 540. Also installed Koni FSD's at the same time.
I can't remember ever bottoming out.

[peter540]

The H&R I bought are the 50646 springs. IIRC they told be they were 15% stiffer than the OE sport springs that came on my 540. Also installed Koni FSD's at the same time.
I can't remember ever bottoming out.

Thanks, Jim. Looks like I'll need to save up to switch H&R springs. Blah.

Sorry to trouble you more, but would you please let me know what the measurement is from the top of the fender line/arc to the center of the wheel, both front and back?

--P

[JimLev]

The springs might have been 50464, not 50646.
Front with 1/2" spacers is 13 5/8"
Rear is 13"
Even though the front measurement is higher than the rear the front of the body is lower than the rear.

[peter540]

The springs might have been 50464, not 50646.
Front with 1/2" spacers is 13 5/8"
Rear is 13"
Even though the front measurement is higher than the rear the front of the body is lower than the rear.

You the man, Jim!. Thanks yet again! Might you be able to send a side-profile photo of your car?

[BimmrMeUpSnotty]

Damn! You might as well get him a lolipop before he asks for one! Lol, I kid.. I kid....

[vien]

i also have the 50464 springs i just dropped my car off few days ago for alignment but so you have an idea this is with 18/9x.5 square set up and 275/35 tires all around it sits absolute perfect.

20200527_163925.jpg

[BimmrMeUpSnotty]

Hey vien, how does that car drive with the 275 square setup? I have two sets of style 65's, I was considering running the same way. Right now, I just slapped on two 9x17 style 66's, so the car definitely transfers more road feel to the steering wheel with the 255/40/17's, how do the 275's feel?

[Jason5driver]

You the man, Jim!. Thanks yet again! Might you be able to send a side-profile photo of your car?

Picts ! ?
lol .

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i also have the 50464 springs i just dropped my car off few days ago for alignment but so you have an idea this is with 18/9x.5 square set up and 275/35 tires all around it sits absolute perfect.

20200527_163925.jpg

That's not a sufficient picture , sorry . lol .

[peter540]

Picts ! ?
lol .

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That's not a sufficient picture , sorry . lol .

Still helpful, though. Thank you! How much harder do you feel the car rides on these springs?

[Jason5driver]

Still helpful, though. Thank you! How much harder do you feel the car rides on these springs?

LOL.
Hi Pete !
If you are asking me, I am the wrong person to ask, because I have a lowly 525i, and with H&R coil-overs, which I am sure ride way more stiff than your new setup .
I do like the way the Koni Sports ride though.
I have yet to ride on the Koni FSD's .
And, I guess Koni has a new strut / shock that combines the Sports and FSD's, which is supposedly better .
Koni Actives ?

[vien]

Hey vien, how does that car drive with the 275 square setup? I have two sets of style 65's, I was considering running the same way. Right now, I just slapped on two 9x17 style 66's, so the car definitely transfers more road feel to the steering wheel with the 255/40/17's, how do the 275's feel?

It feels very nice to be honest, i do feel the front is just a teeny weeny bit heavier because of me coming from style 66. But man it hugs the road so well. The only thing you need to do is run a 12mm spacer up front to clear the shock tower, From what i was told i had plenty of room up front but i wanted to be super safe and went 12mm. There a few m5 guys on m5 board that run this set up and like it alot as well. Only reason i went this set up because i drove and saw first hand my buddy's m5 who owns Auto Tuning House. We have the same eact set up pretty much only difference i went H&R he went Dinan. But even you putting the rear 66's up front is really good for factory set up. One thing you have to take account for is the tire brand also. I learned that first hand, because federal tires 275 run a little wider compared to competitors. SO just keep that in mind if you decide, depending on what brand you may only need a 10mm or so.

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Picts ! ?
lol .

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That's not a sufficient picture , sorry . lol .

yeah i know this was just a quick snap before i dropped the car off. Its still at the shop hopefuly it will be done today and i can snap more pics.

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Still helpful, though. Thank you! How much harder do you feel the car rides on these springs?

I absolutely love them nice firm yet comfortable ride, but i have koni yellows that i can adjust with. On the way to dropping the car off to get aligned went over few bumps and crappy local roads here in orlando and it absorbed them like a champ. Ill snap more pics when i get the car back. SOrry didnt mean to thread hijack, just wanted to give my input.

[BimmrMeUpSnotty]

Ok, you have 12mm spacers, I already have 15mm spacers that I'm running now with the 17" 66's.

[peter540]

It feels very nice to be honest, i do feel the front is just a teeny weeny bit heavier because of me coming from style 66. But man it hugs the road so well. The only thing you need to do is run a 12mm spacer up front to clear the shock tower, From what i was told i had plenty of room up front but i wanted to be super safe and went 12mm. There a few m5 guys on m5 board that run this set up and like it alot as well. Only reason i went this set up because i drove and saw first hand my buddy's m5 who owns Auto Tuning House. We have the same eact set up pretty much only difference i went H&R he went Dinan. But even you putting the rear 66's up front is really good for factory set up. One thing you have to take account for is the tire brand also. I learned that first hand, because federal tires 275 run a little wider compared to competitors. SO just keep that in mind if you decide, depending on what brand you may only need a 10mm or so.

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yeah i know this was just a quick snap before i dropped the car off. Its still at the shop hopefuly it will be done today and i can snap more pics.

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I absolutely love them nice firm yet comfortable ride, but i have koni yellows that i can adjust with. On the way to dropping the car off to get aligned went over few bumps and crappy local roads here in orlando and it absorbed them like a champ. Ill snap more pics when i get the car back. SOrry didnt mean to thread hijack, just wanted to give my input.

That's great info! Are you running the 50464-88 or just the 50464 springs (the -88s drop the car more, apparently -- I'm not interested in slamming my car).

Also, how does your friend like his Dinan springs? I think they drop the car less than the H&Rs, but I'd assume they're still slightly stiffer than the original OEM springs that were part of my MTech II suspension (I believe the same springs as the M5.

[JimLev]

You the man, Jim!. Thanks yet again! Might you be able to send a side-profile photo of your car?

Peter, here's the side profile with the 1/2" spacers in the front.


DSCN4210.JPG

[BimmrMeUpSnotty]

I may be wrong, but is it just a bit lower than stock sport spring height Jim?

[vien]

That's great info! Are you running the 50464-88 or just the 50464 springs (the -88s drop the car more, apparently -- I'm not interested in slamming my car).

Also, how does your friend like his Dinan springs? I think they drop the car less than the H&Rs, but I'd assume they're still slightly stiffer than the original OEM springs that were part of my MTech II suspension (I believe the same springs as the M5.

Just the 50464 set, not sure what the spring rate on dinan is, but he loves it. He is a certified dinan dealer so i can see why he went that, i on the other hand wanted something that sits right above tire but still have some room. the MTech II suspension is just m5 springs which if you have the 6spd the come factory. Im actually about to pick up the car in like an hr or so if you are ok i can snap pics and post here all around that way you have an idea.

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I may be wrong, but is it just a bit lower than stock sport spring height Jim?

yeah it is, because the factory sport is pretty low compared to normal i believe.

[Jason5driver]

Peter, here's the side profile with the 1/2" spacers in the front.


DSCN4210.JPG

Dang...
That garage is amazing ...
What did you use on the concrete floor ?

[JimLev]

I may be wrong, but is it just a bit lower than stock sport spring height Jim?

The H&R's dropped the front 1.5", I raised the front 1/2" so I'm still 1+" lower than the factory sport springs in the front.
Snotty, the sport springs are only 10mm lower than the non sport springs.
Snotty IIRC the gap from the top of the tire to the fender arch was almost 2" before I changed the springs.
The other reason for lifting the front was the M5 bumper and the belly pan was lower than the stock parts. I think I had maybe 3.5" from the pan to the ground.

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Dang...
That garage is amazing ...
What did you use on the concrete floor ?

Thanks.
Epoxy coating. Great stuff. I did it to my old garage back in MA and to our son's garage in NC.
Will probably help a few guys here in the BMW CCA do it here in NM.

[peter540]

Just the 50464 set, not sure what the spring rate on dinan is, but he loves it. He is a certified dinan dealer so i can see why he went that, i on the other hand wanted something that sits right above tire but still have some room. the MTech II suspension is just m5 springs which if you have the 6spd the come factory. Im actually about to pick up the car in like an hr or so if you are ok i can snap pics and post here all around that way you have an idea.

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yeah it is, because the factory sport is pretty low compared to normal i believe.

That would be great, and thanks!

And also great to know the Dinan springs would be a good option. I assume they don't drop the height as much as the H&RS?

[DennisCooper]

Hi,

Some excellent information above from Jim ! +1 for you and your knowledge & experience !

I've run H&R springs on my previous E34 525i Sport which was of course OEM Sport shocks and springs as standard. Back in 1999, I spoke with my trusted local wheels and suspension dealer and mentioned I wanted to go a bit lower and retain as much ride comfort as possible. The H&R springs set only went on and I was extremely happy with the results! a significant increase in the feel of the car, tautness of the handling and I was also running genuine AC Schnitzer Type 2 non Racing in 18". Kept this setup over the following 5/6 years I had the car and loved it! no one ever complained it was too stiff or felt wrong etc. When my E39 Touring came along, I went back to my trusted supplier and due to it being non SLS, I found limited spring kits on the market at the time in 2006. H&R did a set and if I remember correctly, they were the 'comfort' rated set rather than 'race'. The standard suspension was the non Sport shocks so it was recommended to me to do a maxiumum lowering of 30mm if using these shocks ( I could go lower if I then also changed to shortened Sport shocks) I retained the OEM non Sport shocks and put the H&R spring set all round - rated at 30mm all round and once again, over the moon with how the car felt. Same excellent comfort levels and significant upgrade in handling and road feel. I absolutely love driving 'spiritedly' over the excellent 'twisties' I have around where I live and the car felt extremely sure footed and planted when enjoying those roads! at normal speeds and requirements, full comfort and I've run 19's since purchase of it in 2006.

So a big +1 from me for H&R !

side on shot



Arty shot



Over the years, I've met many enthusiasts and many of whom are convinced that running 19s on an E39 'ruins' the ride. A good number of them I'd take for a 10 minute drive at meets/events and they'd emerge from my car looking very, very sheepish indeed!

I've recently taken the H&R's off as I'm now on KW V1 Coilovers and the increased 'stiffness' I'd equate to perhaps 10-15% more than the H&R/OEM shock setup. I'm sending the H&R's off to a suspension manufacturing specialist here in the UK called 'D Faulkner' who manufacture for Motorsport and Formula 1. I'll have them analysed and any technical data from H&R (that they will provide) so that I can have custom spring sets made up. This is how I used to lower my E30's back in the early to late 90's when coilovers didn't exist for road cars. Everyone else would buy cheap spring sets or cut new Sport springs and then cry about handling and the 'bouncy' look along a road!

If you are worried about the softness or stiffness of the off the shelf spring sets from the likes of Eibach/H&R/KW then I'd suggest going with a set of custom made springs to your spec from a suitably knowledgeable and experienced suspension manufacturer.

Cheers, Dennis!

[vien]

That would be great, and thanks!

And also great to know the Dinan springs would be a good option. I assume they don't drop the height as much as the H&RS?

fresh alignment, full tank full loaded on the Koni H&R combo on 18x9.5 22offset 275/35 all around 12mm spacer up front.
20200529_170402.jpg