Purchasing M Roadster in need of Restorationons

[BimmerBreaker]

Im not sure how accurate that is. Its at the very least incomplete, S54 revs to 8k. If that is an S54 dyno it left a good chunk of power on the table in those last 1,000 rpms

Also the S52 revs to 7k, m52 to 6500. So kinda weird

[ProductUser]

Since we're off topic...

Let's say the cost between an S52 and S54 is $5k. Let's also say you have to perform regular valve adjustments on the S54 at some costs; this is not needed on S52. I'll also assume regular maintenance (VANOS, cooling system...etc.) has been done on both S52 and S54. I'll assume rod bearing have been replaced on the S54.

Now, what would a FI, say running at a conservative 6psi, do to a S52? Would that take the S52 to S54 HP range? How much would a FI system cost (hardware and software) for a S52? $6k?

What I'm trying to say is, how much is that S54 badge costing you v. adding FI to a S52 to get you to S54 HP?

Just some thoughts.

[KBH22102]

Getting back on topic for the OP. Here is a similar car for a similar price and may be in better condition. Depending on where you are in Georgia, just a long day trip away.

http://www.mroadsterbuyersguide.com/...istingID=20018

[BimmerBreaker]

S54 isnt just about peak numbers, it has double VANOS and ITBs. Very fast throttle response, amazing amount of torque for any throttle input. Valve adjustments are negligible in cost.

Yes you can make an S52 faster than an S54 with F/I. But then you are making the S52 less reliable in the process, and often times for a cost larger than the price delta between an S52 and S54 to begin with.

The justification for preferring the S52 is diminishing over time as the price difference between S52 and S54 decreases imo. If your power goals are 400hp+, turbo S52 is probably the best bang for the buck. Other than that, hard to beat the S54 in smiles per hour...

[zellamay]

S54 isnt just about peak numbers, it has double VANOS and ITBs. Very fast throttle response, amazing amount of torque for any throttle input. Valve adjustments are negligible in cost.

Yes you can make an S52 faster than an S54 with F/I. But then you are making the S52 less reliable in the process, and often times for a cost larger than the price delta between an S52 and S54 to begin with.

The justification for preferring the S52 is diminishing over time as the price difference between S52 and S54 decreases imo. If your power goals are 400hp+, turbo S52 is probably the best bang for the buck. Other than that, hard to beat the S54 in smiles per hour...

Stop saying those things ! I'm trying to keep my money in my bank account.

[BimmerBreaker]

Stop saying those things ! I'm trying to keep my money in my bank account.

Money is just an object. S54 M roadsters are pure joy personified as a car.

[nlecorgne]

Yeah, I've called them but never heard back. I'm also not as crazy about he two tone seats as I am the black. There's a 2001 just south of Seattle that I'm really interested in, but it's pushing my budget especially if I have to put work into it. I've talked to the seller and he is anticipating that it will need $3000 in repairs. I would, of course have a mechanic in the area look at it before buying, but given my experience with the PPI on the last one, I'm guessing that $3000 in repairs will be a conservative estimate? This is the link and I also have pics of the under carriage if anyone thinks they can help with assessments to determine if it's worth looking into further.

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...Type=spotlight

[KBH22102]

What kind of repairs for $3K? That car comes with a hardtop so consider that a $2000 bonus. That mileage coincides with an Inspection II service which involves the valve adjustment. This is not a difficult job, but it is time consuming and typically costs about $1k. The ad also mentions needing new tires and suspension so the total amount is plausible. Trunk welds look okay but you need to look at the underside of the car at the diff mount ear as well. The interior issues mentioned are all minor. The accident details are mysterious and you will need to clarify.

That price is still pretty good for a relatively low mileage S54, but you will need to factor in your acquisition costs (flight, gas/hotel, transport to Georgia)

[nlecorgne]

What kind of repairs for $3K? That car comes with a hardtop so consider that a $2000 bonus. That mileage coincides with an Inspection II service which involves the valve adjustment. This is not a difficult job, but it is time consuming and typically costs about $1k. If other fluid services are also due then $3k for all of that is plausible at a dealer.

That price is still pretty good for a relatively low mileage S54, but you will need to factor in your acquisition costs (flight, gas/hotel, transport to Georgia)

He says struts and tires plus some interior trimmings and seat bushings. I'm assuming my dad and I can manage the interior stuff. I have gotten reasonable shipping costs from a reputable shipping company. So none of that is a problem for me, I'm more concerned with what we don't know about yet. I am well aware that an 18yr old car will need continual maintenance/repair/replacements. On going costs are not the problem either, it's upfront costs after stretching my budget to the max that worry me. Also, I spent a good chunk(possibly even overpaid) to get a really thorough evaluation of the other one, knowing it needed work, but not realizing exactly how bad shape it was in. Maybe this is unrealistic, but I'd like some minimal assurance that this isn't likely to happen with the next car I have inspected?

[KBH22102]

There is a ZSCCA chapter in the area. You might reach out to the group and see if someone might be willing to take a quick look for you. It would not replace a PPI but a knowledgable Z owner can tell you a lot.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/washingtonstatezs/

[nlecorgne]

There is a ZSCCA chapter in the area. You might reach out to the group and see if someone might be willing to take a quick look for you. It would not replace a PPI but a knowledgable Z owner can tell you a lot.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/washingtonstatezs/

Ok. I'm looking into that. Thanks!

[kolosy]

Yeah, I've called them but never heard back. I'm also not as crazy about he two tone seats as I am the black. There's a 2001 just south of Seattle that I'm really interested in, but it's pushing my budget especially if I have to put work into it. I've talked to the seller and he is anticipating that it will need $3000 in repairs. I would, of course have a mechanic in the area look at it before buying, but given my experience with the PPI on the last one, I'm guessing that $3000 in repairs will be a conservative estimate? This is the link and I also have pics of the under carriage if anyone thinks they can help with assessments to determine if it's worth looking into further.

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...Type=spotlight

Talk to Jon at the roadster guide about someone he knows that had looked at it already. If it’s the same one, it’s got some issues that made me go another direction when I was looking. On the flip side- you can sell the hard top and get ~2K back.

[nlecorgne]

Talk to Jon at the roadster guide about someone he knows that had looked at it already. If it’s the same one, it’s got some issues that made me go another direction when I was looking. On the flip side- you can sell the hard top and get ~2K back.

Thanks for the tip! I sent the ad and undercarriage photos to my mechanic. He saw a few things that gave him pause. But none oof that matters, as it looks like someone else was willing to deal withe the issues. When I contacted the seller today he said it had been sold locally. "Unfortunately" now that I've started looking with a serious intent to buy the bug has hit pretty hard. I might be a little obsessed... There's a silver 2000 M at a dealer outside of LA that, from a cosmetic stand point, looks to be really clean. it's the first one I've found that my mechanic says is probably worth having someone there do a PPI. I'd love an s54 engine, but spending less money for something in really good shape is pretty tempting.

[Jamesons Viggen]

Since we're off topic...

Let's say the cost between an S52 and S54 is $5k. Let's also say you have to perform regular valve adjustments on the S54 at some costs; this is not needed on S52. I'll also assume regular maintenance (VANOS, cooling system...etc.) has been done on both S52 and S54. I'll assume rod bearing have been replaced on the S54.

Now, what would a FI, say running at a conservative 6psi, do to a S52? Would that take the S52 to S54 HP range? How much would a FI system cost (hardware and software) for a S52? $6k?

What I'm trying to say is, how much is that S54 badge costing you v. adding FI to a S52 to get you to S54 HP?

Just some thoughts.

In 2010 when the gap between S52 and S54 was sizable. I bought a stage 2 blower for a steal at $1800. I then showed a 157whp gain at 12psi on the same Dyno I had done NA pulls on.

Today, If I was buying, S54 Roadsters are much more in reachm. I'd go big and Turbo the S54 lol.

[BimmerBreaker]

I also have to note - Ive been involved in the Z3 community for years. For almost that whole time, M roadsters have stayed pretty stable in value. Except that the past year, year and a half maybe, Ive seen S54s dropping drastically in price. I dont expect this to last long, as coupes and s52 roadsters seem to be trending up. It would be an optimal time for someone to jump from an S52 into an S54 if one was so inclined...

[IndianaRoadster]

I would give serious consideration to an s52 FI. Mine starts pulling at 2500 rpm and pulls consistently all the way up to redline. It's truly a pleasure to drive. Maybe other options are a bit faster but I consider this a very economical way to go.
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[spikeisgr8]

I am a fan of both the S52 and S54. Both fantastic. But the one thing I don't hear enough people talk about when comparing S52 to S54 is the SOUND. I love how the S54 screams at the higher revs. It's really the sole purpose I wanted this motor over the S52. And the higher redline is nice too. And wanted to stick with NA since it's a dying breed. Can't go wrong either way. But not enough people factor in how much the sound of an engine plays into the thrill of driving. It adds to the visceral experience. Just my 2 cents.

[ProductUser]

In 2010 when the gap between S52 and S54 was sizable. I bought a stage 2 blower for a steal at $1800. I then showed a 157whp gain at 12psi on the same Dyno I had done NA pulls on.

Today, If I was buying, S54 Roadsters are much more in reachm. I'd go big and Turbo the S54 lol.

Thanks for posting. I agree that I would buy a S54 today, too. I may put some kind of F/I on my S52 at some point just to eek out a little more HP.

[IndianaRoadster]

I may put some kind of F/I on my S52 at some point just to eek out a little more HP.

I wouldn't call 419 HP at the flywheel and 350WHP eeking out a little more HP. (-:

[workhurts]

Are you saying all S54 cars have dropped in the last 12-18 months or just S54 roadsters?

Thought we had a couple of record S54 coupes in the timeframe.

I also have to note - Ive been involved in the Z3 community for years. For almost that whole time, M roadsters have stayed pretty stable in value. Except that the past year, year and a half maybe, Ive seen S54s dropping drastically in price. I dont expect this to last long, as coupes and s52 roadsters seem to be trending up. It would be an optimal time for someone to jump from an S52 into an S54 if one was so inclined...

[BimmerBreaker]

Just roadsters. Coupes seem to be continuing up, yet I see S54 roadsters at what seem to be an all time low pricing

[Jamesons Viggen]

I wouldn't call 419 HP at the flywheel and 350WHP eeking out a little more HP. (-:

UNTUNED I did more like 430whp/415tq today @15psi UNTUNED on a Mustang Dyno but I upgraded my Vortech. I'm looking at 500whp tuned on e85.

[nlecorgne]

Getting back on topic for the OP. Here is a similar car for a similar price and may be in better condition. Depending on where you are in Georgia, just a long day trip away.

http://www.mroadsterbuyersguide.com/...istingID=20018

They called me back yesterday. Appears to be a really nice car. I'm taking a rental down tomorrow, and have a mechanic set up to look at it on Monday. If it checks out, I'll be driving it home!!! Wish me luck!!!

[davidroman81]

I believe that one from Georgia that started the post was listed as a Katrina vehicle on the car fax.


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[nlecorgne]

Florida car worked out! I am now the proud owner of 2001 M Roadster!!! Thanks for all of the advice!