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Thread: Purchasing M Roadster in need of Restorationons

  1. #1
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    Purchasing M Roadster in need of Restorationons

    I’m looking at a 2002 M Roadster with 95000 miles that is for sale locally. It’s through a dealership that is going out of business. Yesterday I took it for PPI and the news was terrible - 8-10k of work needed. Individually nothing seems fatal, but combined it’s pretty scary - rear main seal, clutch, engine mounts, oil and ,sway bar bushings, struts, a host of dcts the most worrisome having to do with the throttle box -not name the worst. The front driver’s seat is stuck and the rear window needs replacing. There are a few minor cosmetic defects, but the bulk of the issues are mechanical. It’s the last of two vehicles the dealership still has to liquidate before closing. If I don’t take it it will likely go to auction or some cash offer place like Vroom. I am interested in thoughts on doing a restoration, if I can get the vehicle at a rock bottom liquidation price. I haven’t made an offer, but would hate to see it sold off for parts if restoration is a realistic possibility.
    Last edited by nlecorgne; 05-27-2020 at 01:12 PM.

  2. #2
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    Yeah that's nothing if you do it yourself. Could have that sorted and vastly improved within a few weekends. These cars are relatively easy to work on, most mechanical parts are readily available, and that mileage is low for the age.

  3. #3
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    If the price is right, I'd take on the challenge.
    Tony
    "You can't sign away negligence."

  4. #4
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    Is it this one?

    http://www.mroadsterbuyersguide.com/...istingID=18973

    What is your experience working on cars? If the main engine block is in good shape, a clean title S54 is worth saving if you can really get the price down to about the $6-7k range
    Kelvin

  5. #5
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    That's the one! I'm mechanically inclined and a a fast learner, but I haven't worked on cars at all. So something like this is a little intimidating. I'm new to the area and don't have a mechanic, but have been talking to a few people since this car has come up. Also, my dad has restored a number of cars in his day. He's too old to take it on, but is completely capable of advising.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Thanks for all of the advice! I've put in an offer, we'll see how it goes.
    Last edited by nlecorgne; 05-27-2020 at 01:28 PM.

  6. #6
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    If you don't have the tools, space to work on it, and experience with working on any cars I would absolutely advise you against taking on this project at all.

    If you can't do it yourself, you'll be badly in the hole when and if you find a mechanic. If you have a mechanic, find a better condition one that won't rack up so many hours.

  7. #7
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    I have access to tools, space and my my dad's knowledge. But haven't done anything more than changing a master cylinder in an old dodge van. And that was years ago.

  8. #8
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    If you are paying someone else to work on it any 20 year old car will be an expensive proposition. The list of repair items seems expected. I would add all suspension bushings and the front control arms to the list. Also you need to check the trunk floor for broken spot welds.

  9. #9
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    Suspension bushings and front control arm are on the list and there are no broken weld spots.

  10. #10
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    I've done a full engine transmission swap + overhaul plus body/interior/electronics on a 335i before using tools and a concrete pad, but at this point I had a fair amount of experience dealing with BMWs albeit in older platforms.

    I would encourage you to go ahead and get the Bentley manual and an INPA laptop to make this easier if you are dead set on getting this car. This forum is the best in terms of the collective knowledge and willingness to help for the Z3 platform so don't be afraid to reach out and ask for help.

    As long as you don't have to deal with any interior or serious cosmetics damage, I would expect you can do a full suspension and engine seal/cooling system overhaul plus address RMS, new clutch (might as well while you're in there) and shift pins for about $2500.

  11. #11
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    I was guessing around $5-8k value, then looked at the ad. $13k is too much for that car. The issues you name are not a deal-breaker, but I wonder about the general condition of the car. I'm skeptical because it's a dealer who'd had the car for a while, and describes it as "hand-picked and inspected", which tells you he's FOS. Is that the engine with possible bearing problems? To make it a reasonable buy, you have to make a project car for yourself, not pay to have the work done. These are good cars to work on, (easy compared to others, and lots of support from other owners), so it could be a good car for you, at a much lower price.
    Last edited by zellamay; 05-27-2020 at 02:13 PM.

  12. #12
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    Just to offer some encouragement, I was a total novice when I purchased my 2001 Z3. I did the complete cooling system replacement, oil housing gasket, all the fluids, spark plugs, control arms, shocks, struts, sub-frame bushings, glove box fix, seat bushings, window sliders, ect., ect. So from my perspective, I might have somebody else do the transmission / clutch work, and the sub-frame work if needed, but the rest of the stuff I would be able to tackle. Looks like a beautiful car!

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy Woods View Post
    Just to offer some encouragement, I was a total novice when I purchased my 2001 Z3. I did the complete cooling system replacement, oil housing gasket, all the fluids, spark plugs, control arms, shocks, struts, sub-frame bushings, glove box fix, seat bushings, window sliders, ect., ect. So from my perspective, I might have somebody else do the transmission / clutch work, and the sub-frame work if needed, but the rest of the stuff I would be able to tackle. Looks like a beautiful car!
    Thanks for the encouragement! I was thinking along these lines. I know there are things I can do with my dad and the forum's help, but I'm not equipped to take on the whole thing. I have been interviewing mechanics and I found what seems to be a wonderful place. Great reviews, reasonable prices and they spent over an hour texting with me re:the car. They seem to really get the idea of a personal project car and are willing to help me work through deciding what I might be able to do and what I will need them for. I have put in an offer in the range of what is being suggested, and am waiting to hear back. Fingers crossed.

  14. #14
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    Sounds like you can take on this car. Prior to owning my Z3 I had done a bit of maintenance on my Camry and helped out with a couple jobs on my parents’ 4Runner. I learned a lot over the past two years working on my 3.0 with a decent ratchet set, some ramps, a floor jack, and some jack stands. If you have those, you’re off to a good start. It helps that my town now has a Harbor Freight for the 1-time job tools (and the Icon stuff seems pretty reusable :P).

    You’ll also need time. Maintaining 2 cars and a motorcycle are my main hobby now.

  15. #15
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    Well they didn't accept my offer, and didn't even bother with a give a counter. The dealer is now saying they don't have to sell the car, and will put it back on the market this summer. Probably better to find something that's less of a project anyway. Thanks for all of your comments!

  16. #16
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    rear main seal is probably one of the more tricky one as it requires the car a lift. I can't imagine doing that with jack stands. Rod bearing would be $$$. If you can get it under 10k, reckon to shell out 5-8k for the major items, you are golden.

  17. #17
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    I assume the engine is OE. Rod bearings, VANOS and a host of odds and end to make it right. Once right, the S54 sings at higher RPMS

    Good luck

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by nlecorgne View Post
    Well they didn't accept my offer, and didn't even bother with a give a counter. The dealer is now saying they don't have to sell the car, and will put it back on the market this summer. Probably better to find something that's less of a project anyway. Thanks for all of your comments!
    You may know that the S54 Ms, 2001 & 2002, command a higher price than the S52 Ms, 1998-2000. If you can afford it and want that extra power, then you can spend the extra money. I have the S52. I like power, but don't like running my engine at 5-7000 rpm all the time (the range where the S54 shows it's power). I almost never have my foot on the floor wishing I had more power. Don't get me wrong, I'd rather have the S54, but would I be willing to spend about $5k more to have one? I guess not, 'cause I haven't done it. Point is, for $13k, you can get a better S52 M than an S54 M

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by zellamay View Post
    You may know that the S54 Ms, 2001 & 2002, command a higher price than the S52 Ms, 1998-2000. If you can afford it and want that extra power, then you can spend the extra money. I have the S52. I like power, but don't like running my engine at 5-7000 rpm all the time (the range where the S54 shows it's power). I almost never have my foot on the floor wishing I had more power. Don't get me wrong, I'd rather have the S54, but would I be willing to spend about $5k more to have one? I guess not, 'cause I haven't done it. Point is, for $13k, you can get a better S52 M than an S54 M
    Your description of the S54 power band is off. While it is true that it makes a lot of power above 5K, it is also true that it makes more torque at every RPM than an S52. The dyno charts that have been published prove it. On my daily driver I rarely take it above 5500, unless it's a freeway onramp in 3rd gear. But I can confirm that the maintenance costs are significantly higher!

    Marty

  20. #20
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    is the s54 that much more power than the s52? I have a 2000 with a chip, cold air and more open exhaust and I have out run a lot of later z3m's Just rolling from the light up to 80-85. I keep getting told how slow my car is supposed to be compared to later but I have not found that to be true.

  21. #21
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    The S54 engine is amazing and worth every penny imo. Especially with how cheap they are getting. It's brilliance isn't just from its top end power but rather it's daily drivability - it has torque all over the rev range. Its an insane engine from a technical perspective, we almost take it for granted ...its an undersquare engine revving to 8000 rpm which gives it one of the fastest piston speeds seen in a production engine. Overlay a dyno graph of an s52 vs s54 and you may be surprised...

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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by MartyBtoo View Post
    Your description of the S54 power band is off. While it is true that it makes a lot of power above 5K, it is also true that it makes more torque at every RPM than an S52. The dyno charts that have been published prove it. On my daily driver I rarely take it above 5500, unless it's a freeway onramp in 3rd gear. But I can confirm that the maintenance costs are significantly higher!

    Marty
    Yes, I've looked at the dyno charts, and the S54 makes more power throughout, but not much more until higher rpm. At the rpm I use almost all the time, it wouldn't make that much difference. All the opinions I've read say you really feel the diff above 5000 rpm., which I seldom do. I would like to drive one though. I don't see my S52 losing power at 5k, so I guess I'd have to drive an S54 to know the diff. Must be quite a thrill. I probably shouldn't, because then I'd want one.
    Last edited by zellamay; 05-28-2020 at 01:40 AM.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by BimmerBreaker View Post
    The S54 engine is amazing and worth every penny imo. Especially with how cheap they are getting. It's brilliance isn't just from its top end power but rather it's daily drivability - it has torque all over the rev range. Its an insane engine from a technical perspective, we almost take it for granted ...its an undersquare engine revving to 8000 rpm which gives it one of the fastest piston speeds seen in a production engine. Overlay a dyno graph of an s52 vs s54 and you may be surprised...
    The technical perspective is what I love about it. I’ve been around dirtbikes my whole life and the S54 reminds me of the modern high strung thumpers. It is one engine that I would be excited to pull for a rebuild.

    If only the S54 M Coupes were looking cheap. It’ll be at least a year before I can start seriously looking for a Coupe and the prices will keep inching up.

    OP, sorry to hear about the dealer not accepting your offer. That car looked like it would be a fun ride.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeshammer View Post
    is the s54 that much more power than the s52?
    I seem to recall that the stock Z3M S52 made 240 bhp and the stock Z3M S54 made ~315. Pretty sizeable gap there, but I've not driven both to allow me to comment on how that power difference feels.

  25. #25
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    Here's the comparson graph:.
    .

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