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Thread: Stuttering when in low gears

  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Location
    Cambridge, MA
    Posts
    15
    My Cars
    2003 325i, 1985 635CSi

    Stuttering when in low gears

    I just became a member of the e24 family. She’s my first manual car, but I’ve mostly got the hang of it. Shifting up and going faster than 10mph/16kph is just fine. Trying to drive any slower than that in first gear she stutters a lot. Same in second when trying to engine break and the tachometer is less than 2. I also have trouble downshifting into second in general, although that’s probably because the shifter is loose. I feel like this is leading me to holding the clutch in too much when coming to a stop in 3rd gear or turning a tight corner. Is this normal for older cars?

    P.S. Also, has a bit of a rough idle. I’d bet that’s related

    P.P.S. 1st gear in my steptronic e46 is also fairly useless unless starting from dead stop, so that rings true to me.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Brookfield,CT
    Posts
    1,964
    My Cars
    '92 325IC '88 635
    Quote Originally Posted by cjfman View Post
    I just became a member of the e24 family. She’s my first manual car, but I’ve mostly got the hang of it. Shifting up and going faster than 10mph/16kph is just fine. Trying to drive any slower than that in first gear she stutters a lot. Same in second when trying to engine break and the tachometer is less than 2. I also have trouble downshifting into second in general, although that’s probably because the shifter is loose. I feel like this is leading me to holding the clutch in too much when coming to a stop in 3rd gear or turning a tight corner. Is this normal for older cars?

    P.S. Also, has a bit of a rough idle. I’d bet that’s related

    P.P.S. 1st gear in my steptronic e46 is also fairly useless unless starting from dead stop, so that rings true to me.
    First of all, welcome to the madness! Secondly, consider yourself lucky to have a manual version. Your profile says you have a 1985 which if all stock, means you have one of the better manual gearboxes (Getrag 265/6) and the M30B34 engine. Both matched nicely for all gear speeds.
    I'm trying to understand the stuttering you are describing. You should first need to know if your engine is healthy. It is a robust and simple engine and you should be able to tell if you are running on all 6 cylinders, or if you have a vacuum leak, which could give you stuttering on decel. Secondly, technique is important for smooth driving both transitioning from stop to moving, upshifting, downshifting and coming to a stop. You shouldn't come to a stop directly from 3rd as the car's speed on slow down is much slower than the speed at which 3rd would normally be. For example, if you are in 3rd and you see a red light ahead you would just take your foot of the gas and probably at 20 mph, just pop it into neutral and coast and brake the rest of the way. No need for engine braking at that slow a speed so no need to tax the engine in 3rd down to almost stopping. If you force the egie to stay at idle at that slow of a speed and still in gear, yes, it will stutter.
    Fist thing, check health of engine and yes, a sloppy gearshift is not fun. Bushings are easy to replace and will make the shifting crispier.

    Stay tuned for an invite to the Northeast Idiotfest, a gathering of Shark owners in the CT, NY, MA, RI area. Don't forget about the big Southeast Sharkfest gathering too if you don't already know about it. https://www.bmwsharkfest.org/
    Last edited by carsnplanes; 05-23-2020 at 08:24 AM.
    '88 635, '92 325IC

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Location
    Cambridge, MA
    Posts
    15
    My Cars
    2003 325i, 1985 635CSi
    Quote Originally Posted by carsnplanes View Post
    First of all, welcome to the madness! Secondly, consider yourself lucky to have a manual version. Your profile says you have a 1985 which if all stock, means you have one of the better manual gearboxes (Getrag 265/6) and the M30B34 engine. Both matched nicely for all gear speeds.
    I'm trying to understand the stuttering you are describing. You should first need to know if your engine is healthy. It is a robust and simple engine and you should be able to tell if you are running on all 6 cylinders, or if you have a vacuum leak, which could give you stuttering on decel. Secondly, technique is important for smooth driving both transitioning from stop to moving, upshifting, downshifting and coming to a stop. You shouldn't come to a stop directly from 3rd as the car's speed on slow down is much slower than the speed at which 3rd would normally be. For example, if you are in 3rd and you see a red light ahead you would just take your foot of the gas and probably at 20 mph, just pop it into neutral and coast and brake the rest of the way. No need for engine braking at that slow a speed so no need to tax the engine in 3rd down to almost stopping. If you force the egie to stay at idle at that slow of a speed and still in gear, yes, it will stutter.
    Fist thing, check health of engine and yes, a sloppy gearshift is not fun. Bushings are easy to replace and will make the shifting crispier.

    Stay tuned for an invite to the Northeast Idiotfest, a gathering of Shark owners in the CT, NY, MA, RI area. Don't forget about the big Southeast Sharkfest gathering too if you don't already know about it. https://www.bmwsharkfest.org/

    Thanks for the info! Ya, all the best stuff from the power train is stock. The previous owner really loved this car and took great care of her. The advice to drop into neutral from 3rd when stopping sounds solid.

    Will checkout those gatherings. Sounds like fun

    - - - Updated - - -

    The previous owner did all of this

    - Springs - BMW e28 M5 front (~.5" lower) / stock BMW rear(new seats, etc..)
    - Struts/shocks - Bilstein regular height
    - I think the passenger side tie rod is the only item I didn't replace in the steering (was newish). New steering box as well. I also welded in a brace for the steering box. I even replaced the bushings in the steering column.
    - engine mounts
    - All gaskets taking the intake down to the block (never removed the head, always ran strong, that block is good for like 500hp stock)
    - fuel injectors
    - All intake components including new AFM
    - All ignition components including switch at the key.
    - Power steering pump and hoses
    - Brakes/rotors/ rebuilt calipers
    - Driveshaft
    - BMW downpipes to Ireland Racing stainless cat back system
    - Rear subframe dropped out and bushings replaced (thank me for that one, it was a bitch)
    - Had the seals replaced in the diff and inspected, looks like the bolts could use a tighten though, seeping a little..
    - New shifter bushings
    - New windshield wiper system
    - A/C condenser, compressor, drier, low pressure hose (R134 compatible oil in compressor, had R134 in system for several years)
    - Check the 'Made in West Germany' original radiator!
    - All cooling hoses
    - All fuel hoses
    - All fuses and I think all the engine sensors
    - Wire loomed everything I could reach
    - Got all the seat adjustments working
    - A few of the gauges weren't working, now are.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Posts
    1,718
    My Cars
    '86 635CSi, '08 128i
    That's a nice combo, no doubt about it. Welcome to the fun! The E24 tends to have a rather analog feel, newer fuel injection systems are a lot more effective. You do have some tasty upgrades on that car, sounds like you've done a ton of work!

    I've found that the M30 doesn't like lugging. That's when the revs are too low, like under 1.5K, and you use the throttle to accelerate. I think it's better to downshift first, to get the revs back up, then give it some throttle. It's best to downshift instead of trying to get torque out of the motor down low. I always try to keep the engine turning around the 2500-3500 range generally speaking.

    The inline-6 in these cars isn't at it's best at low revs, they definitely don't have the bottom-end torque that say a domestic V8 typically has. They really prefer higher revs. I wouldn't rev it to redline every time, but I do like to keep revs up, no doubt about it.

    I also noted that these older motors have a distinctive deceleration pattern, a bit like older cars with carbs. I think it's due to the flap of the AFM slamming shut on overrun. It leans the car out briefly, until the idle air control valve catches up. It's just a characteristic of these engines...I've gotten used to it but it's never been something I liked. It'll definitely be worse if you have a few vac leaks, worn rotor, worn plugs. Those all tend to cause random misfires. Looks like you've already gotten all those replaced though.
    Save the manuals!
    '08 128i 6MT, '86 635CSi 5MT (B32, Motronic 1.3, WBO2, G265, 18# FW, 3.46 torsen)
    Past projects:
    '96 318iS, sold 4/23 '90 535iM, RIP 1/23 '90 535iA RIP 6/22 '91 318i, sold 7/19 '97 M3 sedan, sold 11/18 '85 735i, RIP 2/18 '92 325iC, sold 7/16 '91 318iS, sold 6/16 '84 745i, sold 10/14 '82 633CSi, traded 9/12 '90 325i, RIP '87 325 sold '89 525i, traded '87 325iS, RIP

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Brookfield,CT
    Posts
    1,964
    My Cars
    '92 325IC '88 635
    Quote Originally Posted by cjfman View Post
    Thanks for the info! Ya, all the best stuff from the power train is stock. The previous owner really loved this car and took great care of her. The advice to drop into neutral from 3rd when stopping sounds solid.

    Will checkout those gatherings. Sounds like fun

    - - - Updated - - -

    The previous owner did all of this

    - Springs - BMW e28 M5 front (~.5" lower) / stock BMW rear(new seats, etc..)
    - Struts/shocks - Bilstein regular height
    - I think the passenger side tie rod is the only item I didn't replace in the steering (was newish). New steering box as well. I also welded in a brace for the steering box. I even replaced the bushings in the steering column.
    - engine mounts
    - All gaskets taking the intake down to the block (never removed the head, always ran strong, that block is good for like 500hp stock)
    - fuel injectors
    - All intake components including new AFM
    - All ignition components including switch at the key.
    - Power steering pump and hoses
    - Brakes/rotors/ rebuilt calipers
    - Driveshaft
    - BMW downpipes to Ireland Racing stainless cat back system
    - Rear subframe dropped out and bushings replaced (thank me for that one, it was a bitch)
    - Had the seals replaced in the diff and inspected, looks like the bolts could use a tighten though, seeping a little..
    - New shifter bushings
    - New windshield wiper system
    - A/C condenser, compressor, drier, low pressure hose (R134 compatible oil in compressor, had R134 in system for several years)
    - Check the 'Made in West Germany' original radiator!
    - All cooling hoses
    - All fuel hoses
    - All fuses and I think all the engine sensors
    - Wire loomed everything I could reach
    - Got all the seat adjustments working
    - A few of the gauges weren't working, now are.
    You mentioned in your description in the first post that you had a slop in your shifter. I'm surprised you say it's sloppy because in your list of work and upgrades the previous owner performed, it mentions shifter bushings replaced. I can't see them being worn out already. Perhaps something else is still worn or wasn't replaced.
    '88 635, '92 325IC

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