M50NV can upgrade

[Awe90m3]

So I’m new to the m50 world... building an m50nv 3.0 and while I’m in there I’d like to upgrade the cams. With hopes of keeping to budget, I’m curious how often a set of performance cams (s50, schrick, etc) enter the pre-owned market? Is it realistic to hope to find a set in a month or so?


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[E30s50dude]

So I’m new to the m50 world... building an m50nv 3.0 and while I’m in there I’d like to upgrade the cams. With hopes of keeping to budget, I’m curious how often a set of performance cams (s50, schrick, etc) enter the pre-owned market? Is it realistic to hope to find a set in a month or so?


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Why not just use m54 intake cam on the exhust side and use a pair of "someguy2800" custom timing blocks for a cheap s52 cam clone for the fraction of the cost for aftermarket cams?

What kind of build are you going for and what kind of power band to do want?

[gdavid]

Why not just use m54 intake cam on the exhust side and use a pair of "someguy2800" custom timing blocks for a cheap s52 cam clone for the fraction of the cost for aftermarket cams?

What kind of build are you going for and what kind of power band to do want?

That won't work on the Non-vanos motor and wouldn't provide any more lift or duration than what he already has. The Non-Vanos cams have a four hole pattern for the timing gears on both the intake and exhaust cams, on the single vanos motors (M50tub and M52) the exhaust has a 4 hole pattern and the intake cam has a 3 hole pattern as well as the helix gear. The NV duration and lift is very close to that of the S50 and S52 motors, greater than that of the M54b30 motor already so the M54b30 intake swap wouldn't make sense even if you could physically make it fit.

Used cams that are more aggressive than S50 & S52 are periodically listed for sale in the forced induction classifieds or the engine parts classifieds, they aren't cheap, most the them will be for Vanos engines, so you would need to run a locked out vanos sprocket with the intake intended for vanos.

Re-grinds may be your best option.

[xxxxxxx]

I haven't seen any come up for sale in ages.

I've heard you can run two intake cams but haven't looked into it.

Keep us posted on what you do.

[Awe90m3]

That won't work on the Non-vanos motor and wouldn't provide any more lift or duration than what he already has. The Non-Vanos cams have a four hole pattern for the timing gears on both the intake and exhaust cams, on the single vanos motors (M50tub and M52) the exhaust has a 4 hole pattern and the intake cam has a 3 hole pattern as well as the helix gear. The NV duration and lift is very close to that of the S50 and S52 motors, greater than that of the M54b30 motor already so the M54b30 intake swap wouldn't make sense even if you could physically make it fit.

Used cams that are more aggressive than S50 & S52 are periodically listed for sale in the forced induction classifieds or the engine parts classifieds, they aren't cheap, most the them will be for Vanos engines, so you would need to run a locked out vanos sprocket with the intake intended for vanos.

Re-grinds may be your best option.

Correct me If I’m wrong but the m54b30 intake cam lift is 240 so it would be an upgrade to my exhaust cam at 228 (intake came is nearly identical to nv intake cam minus the 3,4 hole pattern) so it would be an upgrade but then the complication of making it work. I know some grab a 2nd nv intake cam and use that but there’s still a few mm sizing issue so it would need some shaving down.

My end goal here is 220-240 bhp and i know that even with alpha -n it will be hard without hot cams.

Is it not possible to remove the cam 3 hole sprocket and swap it with the 4 hole from my nv exhaust cam?

I’m wide open to any and all crazy ideas here fellas.


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[Awe90m3]

I haven't seen any come up for sale in ages.

I've heard you can run two intake cams but haven't looked into it.

Keep us posted on what you do.

Thanks bud! Yeah that’s my fear is that I wait for weeks/months and never get this engine put back together.

I’ll be sure to post my conclusion if and when I get there


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[gdavid]

Correct me If I’m wrong but the m54b30 intake cam lift is 240 so it would be an upgrade to my exhaust cam at 228 (intake came is nearly identical to nv intake cam minus the 3,4 hole pattern) so it would be an upgrade but then the complication of making it work. I know some grab a 2nd nv intake cam and use that but there’s still a few mm sizing issue so it would need some shaving down.

My end goal here is 220-240 bhp and i know that even with alpha -n it will be hard without hot cams.

Is it not possible to remove the cam 3 hole sprocket and swap it with the 4 hole from my nv exhaust cam?

I’m wide open to any and all crazy ideas here fellas.


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My bad, I forgot the specs of the NV exhaust cam, the m54b30 intake would be an upgrade over it. It would be easier to find another m50 intake and run it as your exhaust but the M54b30 intake cam is probably easier to find. You could probably make the m54b30 intake work at the exhaust by using 2 vanos intake sprockets (3 hole) and shimming/spacing it to get the alignment you need. One would be the primary driving the exhaust and the second would be driving your secondary chain to the intake side.

[Awe90m3]

My bad, I forgot the specs of the NV exhaust cam, the m54b30 intake would be an upgrade over it. It would be easier to find another m50 intake and run it as your exhaust but the M54b30 intake cam is probably easier to find. You could probably make the m54b30 intake work at the exhaust by using 2 vanos intake sprockets (3 hole) and shimming/spacing it to get the alignment you need. One would be the primary driving the exhaust and the second would be driving your secondary chain to the intake side.

Now this is interesting. As I already have the m54 cams and factory sprockets so might give this a try for experimentation reasons. Again, I have no problem coughing up some cash for an upgrade but they seem to show up far and wide between.

That being said, any other recommendations for getting maximum power out of an m50nv while I have it apart? Without breaking the bank of course.


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[E30s50dude]

My bad, I forgot the specs of the NV exhaust cam, the m54b30 intake would be an upgrade over it. It would be easier to find another m50 intake and run it as your exhaust but the M54b30 intake cam is probably easier to find. You could probably make the m54b30 intake work at the exhaust by using 2 vanos intake sprockets (3 hole) and shimming/spacing it to get the alignment you need. One would be the primary driving the exhaust and the second would be driving your secondary chain to the intake side.

You would cut 5mm of m54 intake cam helix gear so it matches the same profile as a vanos cam you would then install the single vanos cam sprockets and should be plug in play from there. I didn't realize OP was trying to keep a NV set up. Thought he was going to convert to to a vanos setup after he shaved the front of the head to allow the vanos unit to fit. In order to take advantage of the better valvetrain that comes with the NV head. I recently did this with a spare NV head I have for my spare motor and I got the vanos unit to work using my s50 cam/cam trays.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6XBmZzeaiY

[Awe90m3]

You would cut 5mm of m54 intake cam helix gear so it matches the same profile as a vanos cam you would then install the single vanos cam sprockets and should be plug in play from there. I didn't realize OP was trying to keep a NV set up. Thought he was going to convert to to a vanos setup after he shaved the front of the head to allow the vanos unit to fit. In order to take advantage of the better valvetrain that comes with the NV head. I recently did this with a spare NV head I have for my spare motor and I got the vanos unit to work using my s50 cam/cam trays.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6XBmZzeaiY

Very nice. Thanks for the write up! Any idea if I’d be able to use the sprockets from the m54 as well?

Unreal how you installed a vanos on an NV head! Might have to be a future project


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[E30s50dude]

No I don’t think it would work, since dual vanos sprockets are different than Single vanos set up.

[gdavid]

Unreal how you installed a vanos on an NV head! Might have to be a future project


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At this point, there are more "off the shelf" tunes for the vanos engines than non-vanos. I believe that in addition to the beefier valvetrain of the NV engines, they were favored as easier to tune, some guys would just lock out the vanos travel on their later engines. Now, the vanos engines are far more common and have been around so long, that you will find better tuning support for them whether you are paying someone or self tuning it. Retro-fitting vanos might make your life easier in the long run, you may even find benefit in changing to OBD2 wiring and DME (this would require the euro crank position sensor).

[spyderg0d]

Ive attempted this before.. It just doesn't work.
The m54 intake cam (secondary timing) is based outward compared to the sprocket face of the primary timing chain. If you shaved off that chain width worth of material from the m54 intake cam, you will have no face to bolt too.
The "fix" would to be space the crank pully chain sprocket, space the oil pump chain, space the timing chain guides, run the m54 intake cam on the exhaust, then have to space the intake cam as well. But then theres a giant debacle with the secondary timing chain tensioners and guides.. So its a not possible.

So.. Leaving the only option, is to take the m54 intake camb have material added to the face. Have the face shaved down. At that point you might as well have material added to the timing block in the back and shaved to be able to time it easily. .. But obviously . with all that work.. You might as well just buy regrind or s50 cams..

- - - Updated - - -

*have material added to the back side of the face of m54 intake cam, then shave the frontb shortening the cam.

[Awe90m3]

Ive attempted this before.. It just doesn't work.
The m54 intake cam (secondary timing) is based outward compared to the sprocket face of the primary timing chain. If you shaved off that chain width worth of material from the m54 intake cam, you will have no face to bolt too.
The "fix" would to be space the crank pully chain sprocket, space the oil pump chain, space the timing chain guides, run the m54 intake cam on the exhaust, then have to space the intake cam as well. But then theres a giant debacle with the secondary timing chain tensioners and guides.. So its a not possible.

So.. Leaving the only option, is to take the m54 intake camb have material added to the face. Have the face shaved down. At that point you might as well have material added to the timing block in the back and shaved to be able to time it easily. .. But obviously . with all that work.. You might as well just buy regrind or s50 cams..

- - - Updated - - -

*have material added to the back side of the face of m54 intake cam, then shave the frontb shortening the cam.

Oh boy, thanks for chiming In. Sounds like the work doesn’t match the payoff. I guess I’ll have to wait for something to hit the market.


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[spyderg0d]

Well. Im not sure how vanos cams will work on a nv. I would just get non vanos regrind cams. Probably cheaper and the only drop in salution that isnt expensive af. But im not really versed on nv.

[Awe90m3]

Seems to be the winning decision. Thanks bud!


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