Finding 3rd gear from 2nd?

[snaponbob]

Right, RF900rkw steered me towards ordering the SS clutch line for my 2nd to 3rd crankiness. But this Mason pedal could be the icing on the cake I've been wanting once clutch engagement position is corrected.

PO paper work shows the following replaced less than 10K miles ago.

- clutch kit
- Clutch master cylinder
- Clutch slave cylinder
- flywheel
- flywheel bolts
- clutch release arm
- clutch pivot pin
- Pressure plate bolt
- Clutch release arm spring
- Fluid

What I see missing is the shift pins/bushings kit that I had done last week. And the SS slave cylinder line which I'm hoping to have installed next week, try it out, then install the Mason pedal. I hope I catch a lucky break here!

Did you have this problem BEFORE the detent kit was done? If not, whoever did the work "installed" the problem. The first question is "was the line to the slave disconnected"?

[CLOWN5HOE]

Did you have this problem BEFORE the detent kit was done? If not, whoever did the work "installed" the problem. The first question is "was the line to the slave disconnected"?

Before shift pins kit last week, I had 5th gear lean and stiffness getting into reverse. Shifting from gear to gear wasn't the greatest either.

Clutch has been engaging/disengaging very low to the floor since I bought the car last year. It's my first manual trans car ever so without knowing any better didn't realize it was an issue until Randy spotted the issue in my post. Same with 5th gear lean, didn't even know that was a thing until another post I made in a different thread.

Hoping these 3 things (shift pins, ss line, mason pedal) finally get everything back to how it should be. PO did all that clutch work but left out these key ingredients.

[z3forlife]

Doesn’t the mason pedal require some honing to get the bushing to fit or was that just for the brass bushing ?

[snaponbob]

If the clutch circuit has not been bled properly, none of the additional purchases will help. If the existing clutch line is failing, it would be visible to the naked eye. Also, if the slave or master is not correct, this problem will exist. Not checking the previous work may cost you money and time.

[MartyBtoo]

Doesn’t the mason pedal require some honing to get the bushing to fit or was that just for the brass bushing ?

That's just for the oilite bushing, the OEM Delron fit just fine.

Marty

[rf900rkw]

If the clutch circuit has not been bled properly, none of the additional purchases will help. If the existing clutch line is failing, it would be visible to the naked eye. Also, if the slave or master is not correct, this problem will exist. Not checking the previous work may cost you money and time.

Not true. The hose will look fine, if a bit aged. Dynamicly, it will swell slightly under load, but this isn't really visible either. We are not talking pregnant guppy here, we're talking maybe 2cc volume spread across the length of the hose.
And if there is air... well guess what. The system will need to be bled after changing the hose anyway.

[snaponbob]

Not true. The hose will look fine, if a bit aged. Dynamicly, it will swell slightly under load, but this isn't really visible either. We are not talking pregnant guppy here, we're talking maybe 2cc volume spread across the length of the hose.
And if there is air... well guess what. The system will need to be bled after changing the hose anyway.

Likely true. I have had someone press the pedal while laying under a car. In two cases, what I saw was a crack in the rubber sheath. More often than now, when a manual box come out it goes back in with a braided line "just because". Having had at least 50 manuals out of 3 series cars (clutches, oil leaks, engine overhauls, detents,
etc.), two have defied get the pedal "action" in the upper half of the travel. And that was after replacing everything TWICE. Weird. But, the action was in the middle, so tolerable.

[CLOWN5HOE]

This forum has never been known to let a pesky little thing like direct experience get in the way.


So it shifts normally with the engine off? If so, this kinda points towards the clutch. How far off of the floor does the clutch release? Does it pump up any?

OK, I drove the car some more today to make observations. I still don't think the clutch pumps up any. However, I now do think there's at least 1"+ of travel to the floor after clutch seems disengaged.

My real concern is this: a notchy resistance feeling shifting into 3rd from 2nd while driving. Feels like 2 or 3 sharp bumps pushing into 3rd. But, with the car off, I do not get any of that. Less of this can sometimes be felt going to 4th, but it's 3rd that feels bad. Anything that could cause this?

SS line and Mason pedal are ordered/shipped and going in next week.

[zellamay]

Put the SS line on, then assess. You might want to spend this time reading up on installing that line. It's not easy.

[MartyBtoo]

The one time I felt a resistance like what you described it turned out that the clutch pedal stop was preventing the clutch from fully disengaging. It was felt more in the 2-3 shift because it took longer to get through the dogleg than a straight pull like the 1-2 or 3-4 shift.

Marty

[CLOWN5HOE]

The one time I felt a resistance like what you described it turned out that the clutch pedal stop was preventing the clutch from fully disengaging. It was felt more in the 2-3 shift because it took longer to get through the dogleg than a straight pull like the 1-2 or 3-4 shift.

OK, during my test driving today, I started to think that the clutch was fully disengaging because it seemed like there actually was over an inch of pedal travel from floor to where it begins to engage while starting off in first.

SS line shows up next Tuesday. Mason pedal showed up today, but will wait until SS line is installed first.

[CLOWN5HOE]

I guess there's SS line hope because it shifts perfectly when engine is off.

[rf900rkw]

If you have headroom in the clutch travel, then the hose tain't the problem. Still a good upgrade, but it's not going to help here. And I can't think of anything on the outside. The only other external thing I can think of is to change the fluid. Drain out the Super/Racing/Synth/Whatever goo that's in there and put in the cheapest goddam Dec/Merc house brand ATF you can find. That is what the box was designed to use.

[rf900rkw]

I guess there's SS line hope because it shifts perfectly when engine is off.

We were/are looking for something that would cause drag in the gears from engine rotation, not allowing the synchros to speed match efficiently. Inclomplete clutch release is the #1 culprit for this, and that clutch line is number one for clutch release problems. So now we'll go after internal dragging. The only thing accessible from the outside is the oil. The box was designed to run Dexron 3. With a cold viscosity in the low 30s, and hot around 7-8. People love to dump in expensive synthetic MTLs, often with twice the viscosity, and then sing the praises of their expenditure.... while they bend the linkage trying to get it in gear. I will admit this is more of a cold weather problem, to which you are semi-imune.

[CLOWN5HOE]

We were/are looking for something that would cause drag in the gears from engine rotation, not allowing the synchros to speed match efficiently. Inclomplete clutch release is the #1 culprit for this, and that clutch line is number one for clutch release problems. So now we'll go after internal dragging. The only thing accessible from the outside is the oil. The box was designed to run Dexron 3. With a cold viscosity in the low 30s, and hot around 7-8. People love to dump in expensive synthetic MTLs, often with twice the viscosity, and then sing the praises of their expenditure.... while they bend the linkage trying to get it in gear. I will admit this is more of a cold weather problem, to which you are semi-imune.

OK, can you please recommend an exact brand/model for the fluid? I can try to get some before next Wednesday on Amazon and have them swap it out. Dexron 3? How much do I need?

[rf900rkw]

Just the house brand cheap-o Dex-Merc ATF.. If you are at CarQuest, it will say CarQuest Dex-Merc. If you are at Autozone, it will say Autozone Dec-Merc. If you are at Advance, it will say CarQuest Dec-Merc (grin). It all comes out of the same vat at Ashland Oil... at least here on this coast.

[CLOWN5HOE]

Just the house brand cheap-o Dex-Merc ATF.. If you are at CarQuest, it will say CarQuest Dex-Merc. If you are at Autozone, it will say Autozone Dec-Merc. If you are at Advance, it will say CarQuest Dec-Merc (grin). It all comes out of the same vat at Ashland Oil... at least here on this coast.

OK, looking back at some previous paperwork, I found that the last thing to go into the transmission was:

2.00 of Part# 792 "Synchro Shift"

It might be this: http://www.bgprod.dk/wp-content/uplo...1/792_SPEC.pdf

It says "Automatic transmission fluids (ATFs) and other light lubricants are often recommended for use in transfer case,manual transmission, and transaxle applications."

and

"BG Syncro Shift®II Full Synthetic Gear Lubricant is specially formulated for manual transmissions, transaxles andtransfer cases. It is a full synthetic API GL-4 gear lubricant blended to SAE 75W-80 viscosity to provide unmatchedfilm strength and wear protection."


Could this be the culprit?

[CLOWN5HOE]

Heading over to Autozone today.

I found they have Dex/Merc ATF, but some might be synthetic? Don't use those?

Synthetic: https://www.autozone.com/motor-oil-a...art/318569_0_0

non-Synthetic: https://www.autozone.com/motor-oil-a...art/232570_0_0

[CLOWN5HOE]

OK, picked up some Castrol Transmax Domestic Dex/Merc ATF from Autozone.

Should be able to get it put in next Wednesday.

[CLOWN5HOE]

The Rogue clutch line showed up today. From their website, I was expecting to also get some sort of hard line tubing attached to it. Not included/necessary? Ordered the SS-CLU-03 https://www.rogueengineering.com/Rog...ine_p_134.html

clutch line.jpg

[BimmerBreaker]

It doesnt list the z3 M/e36 m3 as needing a custom hardline and it shouldnt need it. Our cars have a small length of hardline coming off the slave with a threaded end where the soft line screws in. It looks like for some models where the hardline is built into the clutch line they offer a pre-bent hardline

[CLOWN5HOE]

Just the house brand cheap-o Dex-Merc ATF.. If you are at CarQuest, it will say CarQuest Dex-Merc. If you are at Autozone, it will say Autozone Dec-Merc. If you are at Advance, it will say CarQuest Dec-Merc (grin). It all comes out of the same vat at Ashland Oil... at least here on this coast.

Small update. I dropped car off yesterday, found it already had an SS clutch line installed. Work is proceeding.

[CLOWN5HOE]

Picked my car up. Turned out there was already a SS clutch line installed (so CDV restrictor orifice on OEM rubber hose gone too). They bled the slave cylinder while checking it out.

Put in the non-synthetic ATF DEC/MERC fluid.

Installed the Mason clutch pedal, which is fantastic at leveling out the clutch and brake pedals by the way.

Not a whole lot of difference going from 2nd to 3rd. Again, it feels phenomenal with engine off, just one "hump"/detent to get it into 3rd. Driving, in addition to the one nice hump, I usually feel 1-2 other notchy restrictions, one of them being pretty ugly like something is jammed up. Mechanic didn't seem to think it was too bad. Maybe my expectations are just too high?

[solimans]

Do you hear anything or is it just a feeling via your hand on the shift knob?

[CLOWN5HOE]

Do you hear anything or is it just a feeling via your hand on the shift knob?

I don't hear anything (my hearing is really good), just a feeling on shift knob.