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Thread: Finding 3rd gear from 2nd?

  1. #1
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    Finding 3rd gear from 2nd?

    Is it just me? I'm having trouble going from 2nd to 3rd. Just had the shift pins (all of them) installed today. Fixed the 5th gear lean and hard to get into reverse.

    But I still don't think it's going from 2nd to 3rd smoothly. It feels like I'm hitting something blocking me pushing it up into 3rd on the right side of the gate, if that's even possible?

  2. #2
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    Is there some replacement shifter linkage parts I can swap out to smoother out shifting, or could this be something internal to the transmission? Car has 120K miles.

  3. #3
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    There is nothing anyone can say that would mean anything without personally feeling what is going on. But we'll try anyway.

    Engine off, clutch in, hand off the shifter. Now push the shifter straight forward. It should go right into third.

    Same setup, pull the shifter straight back into 4th.

    Same setup, bias the shifter slightly to the left and push into 3rd.

    And 4th

    And again with a slightly right bias.


    Which is better, A or B? C or D?


    /.randy

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by rf900rkw View Post
    Which is better, A or B? C or D?
    Thanks Randy for trying to help me out!

    Engine off, clutch in - It pushes straight up into 3rd and straight down into 4th. No more 5th gear lean after shift pins installed.


    Ordering these A through D (let me know if I got it wrong):

    A: Engine off, clutch in, hand off the shifter. Now push the shifter straight forward. It should go right into third.

    B: Same setup, pull the shifter straight back into 4th.

    C: Same setup, bias the shifter slightly to the left and push into 3rd.

    And 4th

    D: And again with a slightly right bias.


    A might be a little better than B.

    C might be better than D.

    The 2nd to 3rd bad feeling I get while driving is much better with engine off and clutch in.

  5. #5
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    This forum has never been known to let a pesky little thing like direct experience get in the way.


    So it shifts normally with the engine off? If so, this kinda points towards the clutch. How far off of the floor does the clutch release? Does it pump up any?


    /.randy

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by rf900rkw View Post
    This forum has never been known to let a pesky little thing like direct experience get in the way.


    So it shifts normally with the engine off? If so, this kinda points towards the clutch. How far off of the floor does the clutch release? Does it pump up any?
    It doesn't pump up when I press it multiple times like the brake pedal does.

    Most of the clutch engagement happens very close to the floor.

  7. #7
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    Should be an inch or more of travel past fully released., I've seem cars so bad that you had to shove the pedal into the carpet in order to get it into gears.

    I'd fix the clutch release before digging more into the shifting. First step is to make sure there isn't a clutch stop installed. They were all the rage here about a decade ago. If not, then we need to determine where the lost motion is coming in from. Often, it is the rubber flex line. It gets soft and balloons slightly under pressure using up valuable fluid volume. This condition is also exasperated by heat.


    /.randy

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by rf900rkw View Post
    Should be an inch or more of travel past fully released., I've seem cars so bad that you had to shove the pedal into the carpet in order to get it into gears.

    I'd fix the clutch release before digging more into the shifting. First step is to make sure there isn't a clutch stop installed. They were all the rage here about a decade ago. If not, then we need to determine where the lost motion is coming in from. Often, it is the rubber flex line. It gets soft and balloons slightly under pressure using up valuable fluid volume. This condition is also exasperated by heat.
    It has this clutch stop in it. I removed it and went for a short drive. Might have made a little difference if any. Clutch still hits the metal threaded receptacle for the plastic stop.

    With engine Off and clutch in (or out), shifting is super nice through all gears (especially 2nd to 3rd).

  9. #9
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    I believe you removed the factory buffer; just a flat plastic disc that pops into the threaded bung. People actually thread inch long bolts in to act as a stop.


    You had the shift pins done. Did they do any clutch work? I mean, they were just there. If so, you might have a word about it not releasing correctly. If not, well....


    /.randy

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by rf900rkw View Post
    I believe you removed the factory buffer; just a flat plastic disc that pops into the threaded bung. People actually thread inch long bolts in to act as a stop.


    You had the shift pins done. Did they do any clutch work? I mean, they were just there. If so, you might have a word about it not releasing correctly. If not, well....
    Previous owner had clutch work done (but not the shift pins). Everything he had done has turned into a nightmare for me. I can't catch a break on anything.

    What should I ask shop to do to get my clutch to release correctly?

  11. #11
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    Sigh, This is really a vague area without tactile input. If it doesn't pump up any, air is unlikely. I would first look to the clutch flex line. Some go with new BMW rubber from a 3.0 Z3, but that will still be rubber. Many of us go to a stainless braided line, UUC, Rogue, other. When bled properly it makes for a very solid and consistent pedal.


    /.randy

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by rf900rkw View Post
    Many of us go to a stainless braided line, UUC, Rogue, other. When bled properly it makes for a very solid and consistent pedal.
    OK, Just ordered the Rogue SS clutch line.

    Shop mentioned it could "clutch, clutch fork, or clutch pivot pin". Anything to go on there?

    I hope some day I'll catch a huge break on this car. It looks amazing.

  13. #13
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    I'll throw in my 2 cents here. I was having similar troubles. Removed POs clutch stop which helped, but not enough. SS clutch line fixed it. So much of a diff that I'd call it a "must" mod for any Z3.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by zellamay View Post
    I'll throw in my 2 cents here. I was having similar troubles. Removed POs clutch stop which helped, but not enough. SS clutch line fixed it. So much of a diff that I'd call it a "must" mod for any Z3.
    OK, that sounds promising!!! Thanks for that!

  15. #15
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    Clutch? Hope not

    Fork? Not likely....

    Pivot pin, Could be, sometimes they don't get changed during a clutch job. They are nylon.


    We're after low hanging no-trans-removal stuff first.


    /.randy

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by rf900rkw View Post
    We're after low hanging no-trans-removal stuff first.
    YES we are!

    - - - Updated - - -

    My clutch pedal itself sits in a resting position noticeably higher than the brake pedal. Not sure if that's normal?

  17. #17
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    following along...

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by crashgordan View Post
    following along...
    I am as well. Mine has the 5th gear lean. So I know it needs the shift pins, but it is also hard to get into 3rd and 4th (engine off, clutch in). However, if I go from neutral to 3rd to neutral and then back to 3rd there is much less resistance second time into 3rd. I'm hoping this is another sign of sticky shift pins and not something worse...

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by CLOWN5HOE View Post
    My clutch pedal itself sits in a resting position noticeably higher than the brake pedal. Not sure if that's normal?
    It's very normal. The only fix for that is the Mason clutch pedal. It is a metal replacement pedal that moves the starting point so that it is even with the brake pedal without making an appreciable increase in pedal pressure.

    Marty

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by MartyBtoo View Post
    The only fix for that is the Mason clutch pedal.
    Ordered!

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by CLOWN5HOE View Post
    Ordered!
    Cancel it. RF900rkw is giving you ll the correct info.

    I have dealt with this on a variety of 36s and 46s.
    1) The slave cylinder can be a bitch to bleed. I pressure bleed, which is usually good enough. However, air can still get trapped, and I resolve that by removing the slave and hand pump it. It should be VERY firm in your hands, almost to point of hurting the palm of you hand.
    2) You basically stated that things are not to skillfully done to this car. When in doubt, don't guess, don't throw money at it, start with the basics. You may need to pull the gearbox and check the work.
    3) The pedal should be doing most of the work at the top half of the pedal travel. If it isn't functioning that way, something is wrong. And it isn't trick parts that ill properly fix it.
    4) The clutch pedal (sadly) does sit higher than the brake pedal. Odd but true.
    5) I have learned the had way to ALWAYS replace the clutch fork ---- ALWAYS. Cheap, too. Ditto the plastic pin in the bell housing.

    Go back and review RF900rfk's responses. He knows of what he speaks.

  22. #22
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    snaponbob,

    I didn't propose the Mason pedal to fix his "gearbox issue", merely to lower the clutch starting point. I gather you must not be aware of what this pedal does; it does slightly increase the mechanical ratio so that the starting point is the same height as the brake pedal while still getting the full throw on the clutch. It will not solve an issue with a ballooning hose, but I didn't claim it would. My own car has a Rogue clutch line with the Mason pedal, and is much improved from original.

    Marty

  23. #23
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    The Mason pedal changes the pedal geometry without changing the total release at the clutch. I don't find the pedal positioning a problem, but that's me. One mod I do like is to use a 325 slave cylinder. it's 13/16 rather than 7/8 bore. Roughly 7% more throw at the clutch for an equal increase in effort. Not sue how it would work with the Mason.


    /.randy

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by MartyBtoo View Post
    snaponbob,

    I didn't propose the Mason pedal to fix his "gearbox issue", merely to lower the clutch starting point. I gather you must not be aware of what this pedal does; it does slightly increase the mechanical ratio so that the starting point is the same height as the brake pedal while still getting the full throw on the clutch. It will not solve an issue with a ballooning hose, but I didn't claim it would. My own car has a Rogue clutch line with the Mason pedal, and is much improved from original.

    Marty
    Right, RF900rkw steered me towards ordering the SS clutch line for my 2nd to 3rd crankiness. But this Mason pedal could be the icing on the cake I've been wanting once clutch engagement position is corrected.

    PO paper work shows the following replaced less than 10K miles ago.

    - clutch kit
    - Clutch master cylinder
    - Clutch slave cylinder
    - flywheel
    - flywheel bolts
    - clutch release arm
    - clutch pivot pin
    - Pressure plate bolt
    - Clutch release arm spring
    - Fluid

    What I see missing is the shift pins/bushings kit that I had done last week. And the SS slave cylinder line which I'm hoping to have installed next week, try it out, then install the Mason pedal. I hope I catch a lucky break here!

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by MartyBtoo View Post
    snaponbob,

    I didn't propose the Mason pedal to fix his "gearbox issue", merely to lower the clutch starting point. I gather you must not be aware of what this pedal does; it does slightly increase the mechanical ratio so that the starting point is the same height as the brake pedal while still getting the full throw on the clutch. It will not solve an issue with a ballooning hose, but I didn't claim it would. My own car has a Rogue clutch line with the Mason pedal, and is much improved from original.

    Marty
    Understood. I may look into that. I autocross, and left foot brake ..... and the clutch pedal position IS terrible

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