New guy, E23 Buying Guide

[mayhem100]

Hello all, happy to be here.

Looking at a possible first BMW, a 1979 E23, specific model unknown as the trunk badge is missing. I've got some questions out to the seller and was just looking for a primer on the early E23's so I can be on the lookout for obvious deal breakers. Its listed as having 220k miles on it, manual (I assume 5sp?). Don't know if its FI or carb yet. Leather interior is in what looks like amazing condition...like damn near mint in the photos, obviously the eye will show more, but I can't even see any cracking in the leather on the driver's seat...could have been recovered...if so it looks like it was done well. Woodgrain on the doors, so I don't think its the rare model.

Are there certain achilles heels these are prone to that I should be looking for? Are the motors typically pretty solid if they've been cared for properly? Is there anything I should look out for that'll end up being an utter nightmare for a DIYer? As a last resort, if I get in over my head is there a good enough base of people restoring these that I might be good with a partout to get my investment back if it goes that far sideways? Its an $800 asking price, but for that money it "looks" great, but any car can at 15 feet on a screen...but for that money and if the interior is as good as it looks, I'm thinking I might be ok financially...but as I said, this is my first foray so steep (expensive) learning curve ahead.

I appreciate any advice, hoping to have a look this evening.

[yert315]

$800 is parts car price. If it has a clean title, you’re already ahead of the game.

The only specific e23 concern would be the HVAC system. Outside of that, normal vehicle checks apply - brakes, suspension, fluids, etc. nothing terribly special with these cars.

[StevenHenriksen]

For under a grand it's worth picking up, even if it ends up being a parts car. Especially a manual trans, they are hard to find. Share some photos if you can, that will give us a better idea of what condition it is in.

[mayhem100]

Thanks for the replies, I'm pretty excited about it...just wish the seller would reply to me!!!

Pics are here:
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[mayhem100]

Few more:

52898358_10218097873906463_8146468111902572544_n.jpg52997971_10218097874866487_8259811714728460288_n.jpg52938742_10218097873626456_2474967744609517568_n.jpg53224193_10218097874626481_2677282505505112064_n.jpg

Pretty much all I have to go on until I hear from the seller at this point. Looking for details and not being intimately knowledgable on early 7's, I note that the steering wheel seems to be a perfect match for the console color, the shift knob matches the door wood panels, I don't see much wear on the pedals, driver's bolsters, carpets, etc. Looks in amazing condition to my eyes.

Little bit of the motor in the first photo doesn't look quite like what I think I see in other photos online, so I'm wondering how to tell which motor is in it...or was there only one motor/model in the US in 79?

Love the potential of the car and hoping it might work out for me...we'll see I suppose. Thanks very much for any feedback guys!

[yert315]

That engine is an early m30 build, normal for the era. It looks like a nice car. For $800 you can’t go wrong. The manual swap parts alone would be worth it (though it looks too nice to part unless it’s full of rust)

[mayhem100]

Thanks. Yeah, If the seller gets back to me I'll almost certainly be trailering this car home. For all I know its long gone and its a dead ad, shame if so...ads about a week old and it looks like he dropped his price once from $1k at this point.

[mayhem100]

Dude just got in touch, going to check it out Saturday morning. He has the title, grampa's car, one owner 733i. Ran when parked, won't start now. Check it out, maybe make a deal if its not broken in 2 underneath and arrange to go pick it up afterwards. Sweet.

[StevenHenriksen]

Dude just got in touch, going to check it out Saturday morning. He has the title, grampa's car, one owner 733i. Ran when parked, won't start now. Check it out, maybe make a deal if its not broken in 2 underneath and arrange to go pick it up afterwards. Sweet.

Nice, hopefully it isn't too rusty! Looks like a great start to an E23 project.

[mayhem100]

Had a look, as expected its rougher than the photos lok, but still overall I think its pretty solid. Garaged and sheepskin seat covers almost all of its life, seats are every bit as nice as they looked. Some of the woodgrain is cracked pretty thoroughly, others are basically perfect. Couldn't start it, seller told me that up front but we put a jumper box on the battery and cranked it a bit...turned freely but not so freely that I think there's no compression. Clutch pedal pushed in and the car did not try to roll while cranking. One or more holes in the brake lines, seller said while he was driving it to its location the pedal went to the floor. Rolls freely, so no calipers locked closed. Some rust on both rear wheelwells, borderline rot starting there, there's a rot hole about the size of a silver dollar under the spare...spare is there as are the tools, they're a bit rusty looking. Couldn't run the electrics like windows and sunroof, not enough juice...hvac blower works though. 4 speed manual, at some point the original owner had a warranty replacement tranny from BMW, reasons unknown but I'm guessing maybe new model jitters or something.

Basically I think its worth my time to go over it, see about getting it running, stopping, etc and go from there...I'll find some unpleasant surprises I'm sure, there always are. Talked him down to $650 so my exposure is super minimal.

Once I get the battery with some juice, thoughts on getting it turned over? I'm thinking likely some lines are shot, maybe fuel pump, not enough juice to hear it prime or not, could be relays but all that plastic and rubber is probably original or close to it. Is there a way to run it off a jerry can easily?

Thanks, pretty stoked to get in there and play.

[dude99]

I'd put solid money on the in tank pump being a lump of rust at this point....

[mayhem100]

Could very well be. I thought the pumps on these were outside the tank though? I've seen posts with people installing walboro pumps that are outside the tank.

[StevenHenriksen]

Nice work, if you need any rust repair panels I am parting out a couple E23's currently and can cut some sheet metal out for you.

[yert315]

If it’s been sitting for a while you’ll need to replace the basics:
-Fuel lines
-Rebuild injectors or find good used ones
-fuel filter and pumps
-spark plugs
-ALL rubber— vac lines, brake lines, intake boot, etc.
-ignition cap/rotor

These cars have 2 fuel pumps - An in-tank low pressure pump that supplies the in-line external high pressure pump. Do both as well as the filter.

That should get you a solid base to work with. Keep us posted!

[mayhem100]

Thanks guys.

I think I need to validate a few things to make sure its worth my time and money. Is it possible to run the motor off a gas can or at least fire with a bit of fresh fuel in the throttle body? I'm guessing no on the gas can because I can't pressurize the fuel rail but if I put a bit of gas in the throttle body it should at least cough and help validate the engine is workable and worth the time and expense of replacing pumps and lines. Basically looking for the lowest cost path to verify the motor is workable before I invest much into it.

[StevenHenriksen]

Thanks guys.

I think I need to validate a few things to make sure its worth my time and money. Is it possible to run the motor off a gas can or at least fire with a bit of fresh fuel in the throttle body? I'm guessing no on the gas can because I can't pressurize the fuel rail but if I put a bit of gas in the throttle body it should at least cough and help validate the engine is workable and worth the time and expense of replacing pumps and lines. Basically looking for the lowest cost path to verify the motor is workable before I invest much into it.

You could give it a squirt of starting fluid and see if it sputters to life for a second. Also, running a compression test will give you a better idea on the condition.

[sharkski]

Welcome to the tank club. I think you got a steal of a deal there mate.

[maxthegearhead]

that looks a lot like my E23 i just bought a few months ago! also a early 733i with a manual. This one actually looks nicer than mine. My car sat 14 years so the gas tank was completely full of rust and crap, and the fuel system totally varnished. giver her the old full fluids change and definitely replace the fuel lines so they don't crack and start a fire. Good luck with the project!

[BCTouring]

Any update to this thread? I am parting a 1978 Euro 730. So, early as well. Yours here looks like you can get it running and back on the road again. Sadly the one I have is so severely rusted it is only a parts car, but full of Euro "goodies". Good luck with the project and keep us posted. Mike

[mayhem100]

I've got her home and tucked away for now. Did a little fiddling, but I've got some home projects that are ahead of doing anything serious with the 7. I've had a bathroom reno that started as a new floor and wound up being a full gut it down to the studs, werire, replumb and replace everything. I've been working for a literal month of Sundays at this point when I can, I'm close to being done with and I really need to get it out of the way before I let myself get drawn in with the 7. Got my garage mostly hoed out so I'll be able to get it in there and have a nice well lit, warm place to work this winter.

The driver's side hood latch didn't move, some wd40 and a bit of elbow grease got that working. Vacuumed out under the hood to get all the leaves, acorn caps and such off the motor and especially away from the plug side so when I pull them I won't risk any crap falling into the chambers. Front doors got the wd treatment as well and they work far more like they should (they were sticky and the handles were very stiff). Back doors I haven't touched...I hopped in the back seat and put my shoulder into it, but no good...one feels like the handles aren't connected to anything so it might be real interesting to get it all out.

Cleaned out the trunk, there was a set of four new rotors and pads all around in there, still in whats left of the boxes, so I'm up a bit there. Found the fuel pump access port and started soaking the screws in liquid wrench.

There is some rust and rot to deal with but its all around the rear wheel wells as far as I've found so far, which I guess is pretty typical. Nothing that looks structural to my eye, nothing that would keep it from being driven safely and repaired later if the car is as viable as I hope.

Seats are beatuiful but I felt like they were fragile and could tear easily...was going to order up some Elephant Preserver and try to get the interior cleaned and remoisturized...has anyone used this before or know of a better product?

[rrbacon]

I have a 1978 733i euro, 4 speed. I have had this car for about 12 years. Now in the process of installing a low miles 1979 motor which is almost complete. This car has been great fun to drive, work on, look for parts. You will enjoy this project and driving the car. Finding parts can be a challenge. E bay and this forum are both good. I finally located head lights in Cairo, Egypt which fit and were reasonably priced as one example. I hope to get it painted in the next year.

[mayhem100]

Well I finally finished my bathroom project, took a bit of time to play with the 7 today. Got the air intake pulled off, cleaned all the crap out from under the hood and popped open the access port for the tank fuel pump. Charged the battery and got it to crank, but not very well so I hooked up my truck with some jumper cables and tested it out. Found I have no fuel pressure (not shocked), but I do have spark. Blasted some starting fluid into the throttle body, cranked it and darned if it didn't fire right up and run for a few seconds. I was really excited!

So its worth putting some time and money into for me at this point...next step is to get it running on its own, so that means fuel delivery is next on my list. The pumps may or may not be bad, I'll have to check for voltage at the pump.

Does anyone have any links to good resources for vehicle information? Wiring diagrams, vacuum diagrams, fuse and relay info, etc? Also wondering if my pumps are in fact bad, whats a good place to source the right ones?

[mayhem100]

Looking a bit more at the electrical end, I'm in the midst of puling and testing the relays in the underhood plastic box, the orange one thats on the outside tests good but I've noticed there are only 3 wires coming out of the socket, since there are 4 pins, logically shouldn't it have 4 wires? Pin 30 has no connection in the socket, any thoughts?

Additionally, when I put 12v across the correct relay pins, the switch closes and I get a tone across it for resistance, but I'm not getting 12v across it when I turn the car on. I'm under the impression this is the main relay for the fuel pump, but I've found another illustration that suggests it might just be for the cooling fan, in which case I wouldn't expect 12v with a cool engine.

More troubleshooting...this is actually the fun part.

[cfisher535is]

I couldn't locate an ETM for 1979. the earliest I could find was for 1982.

have you found this in your websearches?

http://wedophones.com/Manuals/BMW/

[mayhem100]

I did find the 82 guide, yes. Hoping it helps when I've got some down time...work is crazy right now so I'm swamped. Got a replacement tank pump on order though, existing one is toast, should be here next week.