Introduction and Buying Advice

**DMC Z3** · 05-08-2020, 09:01 AM

Hello, all. This is my first post, and as you guessed, I am in process of looking and buying a Z3. My wife and I recently watched all the James Bond films again, and she commented she really liked the Z3 in criminally under used in Goldeneye, so I started looking for a similar one. I need another car like I need a hole in my head, but us car guys just can’t help themselves, can we? Current garage consists of: 81 DeLorean, 20 Toyota 4Runner TRD Pro, 11 Jeep Grand Cherokee, 08!Hummer H3, and 20 Fusion AWD that belongs to my work, which is what it is used for. Wife is a truck person as you can see. I’ve had a variety of fun vehicles over the years but never a convertible or proper roadster. I found a nearly mint 2 owner Z3 1.9 15 minutes from me with 12k miles. I’ve looked it over and besides a couple of scratches on trunk lid (one is deep and about 2 inches long into primer) and couple of rock chips, it’s nearly cosmetically mint. Check engine light is on, however, and it is still running original tires. Car ran fine. Other downside, it’s an auto. This is actually a plus because wife won’t drive stick, so it’s a selling point to her. I obviously don’t really care too much about power given current garage, but would the 1.9L Auto be an okay around town and occasional weekend trip cruiser? I’d probably put no more than 1-2k on it per year at most. Also, what do you think is fair sale price for something like this? Prices vary a lot it seems, but you sure don’t see too many sub 20k mile cars out there. My mechanic and I are going to look again at it as well. Thank you for your thoughts!

**ProductUser** · 05-08-2020, 11:03 AM

Well, this is a good start. Remember, these cars are getting up in age, so mileage isn't a huge plus; a well documented service history would be a plus.

https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...urchase-Advice

**Truckeeskibum** · 05-08-2020, 11:04 AM

Wow, great find. The 1.9L should be fine as a cruiser. That's all it is. It will never be a rocket ship.

23 year old tires are definitely a concern and should probably be replaced.

The major problem area is the cooling system. Most everyone recommends full replacement of radiator, fan blades, water pump, hoses, plastic tubes and everything else at about 60,000 miles. Obviously, this car has a lot less miles, but the plastic parts will get brittle with age. Hopefully, someone with more experience than me can follow-up on this.

In terms of value, a typical 1.9L automatic with about 90k-100k miles would be selling for about $4,000 in northern California, but they are not exceptionally rare out here. I don't know how rare they are in Illinois, and you would clearly need to adjust the value for the condition.

**DMC Z3** · 05-08-2020, 05:56 PM

Condition wise, she’s a 9.5 out of 10 cosmetically mostly due the deep scratch in trunk lid and a minor rock chip in front and in one wheel well . Mileage is extremely low as it was stored inside from day one and driven sparingly. Original owners were in their 60s when they purchased it during the hype when they came out. Z3s seem to not be common around here. Way more common in California for obvious reasons. I’ve been trying to recall if I’ve seen any Atlanta Blue ones around here and can’t remember any. I also don’t want to overpay just because low mileage and convenience of it being right in my backyard. It’s just an all original, never messed with car down to cassette player.

**z3forlife** · 05-08-2020, 06:41 PM

What’s the asking price

**Ron C S** · 05-08-2020, 08:38 PM

We have a 96 1.9 5 speed and it does fine around town and on the road. It also gets good gas mileage. We are very pleased and we have now had it 3 years, a great little ride. Be sure to get the tires replaced first thing. When we bought ours the tires had good tread but last June in getting ready for ZFEST I checked the date and they were 11 years old. When they were replacing the tires on one tire the tire machine punched thru the sidewall. This happened because they were dry rotted. The tires showed no sign of problems on the outside they still had good tread..

**DMC Z3** · 05-08-2020, 09:43 PM

Originally Posted by z3forlife

What’s the asking price

11,900. It’s a little high but condition and low mileage is why. I got quoted for new tires from Discount since I know that’s like first thing to do besides maybe replace all fluids just because. It’s running the Michelin Pilots now. Any suggestions on replacement rubber? Fair weather weekend only vehicle and no rain on purpose, so I could even do a summer tire.

**z3forlife** · 05-08-2020, 10:12 PM

These cars have a lot of negative chamber in the rear so I’d look for one with good tread wear. I ran Goodyear F1s on my 99 2.3. I’m running continental on my M. Per the brain trust here coolant system failure is the common cause of trashed 4 cylinder Z3s. There’s a plastic cooling connector on the rear of the head that fails.

**spfd72** · 05-08-2020, 11:22 PM

IMHO that is a bit of an overreach for the least sought after model with old tires and a CEL; mileage notwithstanding. It will still require the same attention to cooling system as a 23 year old Z with 100K miles. But that’s just my reaction. I would negotiate pretty aggressively as the market and appeal of that car is pretty narrow. Good luck.

**kolosy** · 05-08-2020, 11:43 PM

yeah, it seems high. you're almost in M territory (albeit with higher miles) at that price point.

**BimmerBreaker** · 05-09-2020, 12:00 AM

Way, way better off spending way less on a higher mileage car thats actually been driven and maintained. Especially since this low mile car isnt perfect (CEL, tires) and will need other work without a doubt. Before you know it, youll have S54 M Roadster money invested into a 1.9....

Look for a 3.0 imo, they are a fantastic blend between performance and cost. 6-8k should pick up a decent condition example.

**Ass2Phat** · 05-09-2020, 12:32 AM

There’s a James Bond edition of the z3 that would be right up your alley

**DMC Z3** · 05-09-2020, 09:09 AM

I am aware of Bond Edition cars. They never come on market, and I don’t like the custom wheels they came with at all, so not something I would want or be willing to drop over 20k on. With respect to this 1.9L, , Hagerty’s average value of what they say a #1 concours car vs #2 1996 Z3 1.9L auto is worth, it comes to $9,562 with a range of about $7600-11500 between a 2 and 1 condition car. I’d say condition wise this car is a 2+. My initial reaction looking at it was 10k, and Hagerty sort of confirms that more or less, though I’m not sure if that still is too much. I think these cars are no longer depreciating though this one’s value is propped up by mileage and condition, which would go down as miles go up I’d guess. IF the CEL is something simple and my mechanic finds nothing else, what do you think is a fair price for both buyer and seller? I should get a look at maintenance records today. Based on Carfax, it was serviced at BMW for first 10 years. Only other maintenance on Carfax is an inspection and tune up in 2018. I am also aware there are other cars out there or will be eventually that would meet my simple criteria of 96-97 Atlanta Blue with black interior and automatic since wife wants to drive it too. I’m not a fan of the roll hoops, so I think 98s would be out. Based on above, my whole Goldeneye look is out window anyway. Perhaps, the sweet spot is a 97 with the 2.8L auto combo. However, if the price is right on this 1.9L, I may take it home. It is nice that it is local, which would save travel costs since they aren’t as common here. Finally, the seller has a nice collection of classic vehicles and appears to be very anal based on condition of this and his other cars, which is always a good sign. Again, I’m just not sure on value and certainly don’t want to insult the guy either, which is one reason I’m here seeking the expertise of those in the know for someone new.

**spfd72** · 05-09-2020, 10:23 AM

Again, my opinion: responses you will get from the board are going to be varied. There are VERY knowledgeable (I am impressed all the time by the depth of their technical expertise) people here who know these cars well and can guide you regarding maintaining and repairing these cars. There are also the usual run of the mill (like me) “car people” who will give you a biased opinion (definition of “opinion”) based on mostly unscientific sampling (i.e. “in my n of 1 this is how is always occurs...”). Now as noted, the car in question will need new tires; will need scanned for CEL resolution; should have new fluids (especially brake fluid); considered for new belts and plastic cooling system parts. Cost for these items will vary depending on DIY verses shop time, but could be from a low of $750 to 2-3X that amount (CEL is the unknown).

But at the end of the day, it is your feeling that must guide you. If you like the car and the ultimate price is one you are comfortable with, then good for you and don’t look back. We won’t judge and I am sure that everyone here will assist with all the “dumb” questions (this is in jest-almost everything has been asked over 20+years on this board-repeatedly. Which is much to the chagrin of some of the experts here...) that might arise. And you are correct. The intangibles you note: local, etc are certainly ones that are positive.

When I bought a previous Z2.8 in 2010, it was a California car that had 27K miles and was as new as a 12 year old car could be. The guy was firm at $9500 (really firm, when I attempted to negotiate a bit, he cut off communication for 2 weeks-he was the toughest I’ve seen). The car was so nice in pictures I took a chance and few one way and was rewarded by it being just as nice in person. And even though at the time, I thought I overpaid a bit, I didn’t regret it (although I do regret selling it a number of years later...).

Later when I found a M roadster which coincidentally was also in a “collector’s” stable (he mostly had muscle cars, 32 Ford, etc) I offered him $3K under his asking and he took it without much hesitation, so it never hurts to give it a go. Again, good luck in your quest.

**DMC Z3** · 05-09-2020, 11:37 AM

Originally Posted by spfd72

Again, my opinion: responses you will get from the board are going to be varied. There are VERY knowledgeable (I am impressed all the time by the depth of their technical expertise) people here who know these cars well and can guide you regarding maintaining and repairing these cars. There are also the usual run of the mill (like me) “car people” who will give you a biased opinion (definition of “opinion”) based on mostly unscientific sampling (i.e. “in my n of 1 this is how is always occurs...”). Now as noted, the car in question will need new tires; will need scanned for CEL resolution; should have new fluids (especially brake fluid); considered for new belts and plastic cooling system parts. Cost for these items will vary depending on DIY verses shop time, but could be from a low of $750 to 2-3X that amount (CEL is the unknown).

But at the end of the day, it is your feeling that must guide you. If you like the car and the ultimate price is one you are comfortable with, then good for you and don’t look back. We won’t judge and I am sure that everyone here will assist with all the “dumb” questions (this is in jest-almost everything has been asked over 20+years on this board-repeatedly. Which is much to the chagrin of some of the experts here...) that might arise. And you are correct. The intangibles you note: local, etc are certainly ones that are positive.

When I bought a previous Z2.8 in 2010, it was a California car that had 27K miles and was as new as a 12 year old car could be. The guy was firm at $9500 (really firm, when I attempted to negotiate a bit, he cut off communication for 2 weeks-he was the toughest I’ve seen). The car was so nice in pictures I took a chance and few one way and was rewarded by it being just as nice in person. And even though at the time, I thought I overpaid a bit, I didn’t regret it (although I do regret selling it a number of years later...).

Later when I found a M roadster which coincidentally was also in a “collector’s” stable (he mostly had muscle cars, 32 Ford, etc) I offered him $3K under his asking and he took it without much hesitation, so it never hurts to give it a go. Again, good luck in your quest.

Yeah, fluid changes and tires will be about a grand right off bat. Already priced that out. I have a great mechanic friend with his own shop that charges me like 50 an hour for labor, and knows his way around pretty much everything and is familiar with these. Wow, great deal on that 2.8L. It seems like these cars are starting to appreciate a little. I can’t imagine finding a 2.8L with that mileage for under 10k now. Definitely not around here. I’ve been watching Bring a Trailer a lot and just listings that pop up. Some dealer pricing is high naturally. There are always a decent number of cars for sale. I’ve found a couple of 96 Atlanta Blue Z3s for similar prices. One is listed at same price but with a supercharger, maintenance completely up to date with 65k. I found another with 10k original miles listed for 10k. It appears based on failing clear coat it was stored outside and not driven. Then other low mileage sub 40k cars I’ve seen are at dealers with a couple of good ones 1.9 and 2.8 listed in the 13-17k range. Then I see tidy 1.9s with like 60k listed for around 8k or less, so prices are kind of everywhere. I think he will be flexible. He is downsizing storage space and has to consolidate. He has records he’s bringing today, and then we’ll see if anything has been done you mentioned above at some time or another. I doubt it. I think it was one of those he knew the car since day one and when the widow said she was getting rid of it he bought it. Original owners had it from 1996-2014 when he bought it. He definitely has a variety of vehicles and is not strictly a muscle car or sports car guy. He is a car guy like me.

**DMC Z3** · 05-09-2020, 08:40 PM

Checked out car again. Mechanic didn’t find anything glaring. He was amazed at cosmetic condition of the car. Even my wife liked it. He recommended all fluids changed due to age and tire replacement to start along with CEL fix. Code is P0340, cam shaft position sensor, which doesn’t look too terrible to do and BMW part is like 100 bucks. Belts and hoses actually looked good but probably would replace eventually as well just for peace of mind. Seats have the old rock going on which I expected as well. Felt that when I braked hard. Power was “adequate” I guess for bombing around town and weekend cruise. Not sure I’d love it on highway at 70-80mph. Otherwise, drove just fine. Overall, things mostly are what I already suspected them to be. It’s a beautiful car that needs some stuff just because of age. What would you offer for it? Asking 11,900. Thank you!

**amancuso** · 05-10-2020, 09:06 AM

Skip the auto, unless you can't drive a stick. And this is coming from a guy who didn't get it until he bought one.

PS: Also hard pass on a 1.9L auto for nearly 12k. I don't care how many miles it has. That being said, if I was dead set on this car, and shopped around and tried a manual, 6 cyl auto and manual, and still had a desire for it, I'd offer no more than 8 tops.

**spikeisgr8** · 05-10-2020, 11:18 AM

Agreed with basically everyone before me. Any 6 cylinder Z3 in good condition is well worth the upgrade over the 1.9, including getting the wider rear fenders, more power, and especially if you go the auto route. Best of luck to you. Do what makes you happy.

**BimmerBreaker** · 05-10-2020, 11:27 AM

Theres a MINT 3.0 near me at 45k miles for 12k... https://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/c...121240522.html
Honestly to me 12k is M money no ifs ands or buts about it. I dont even think that 3.0 is worth it, but definitely worth a LOT more than the 1.9

I dont think id even pay half that for a 1.9. or even a quarter that asking price. For a point of reference, I have 3 6 cyl Z3 roadsters (97 2.8, 99 2.3, 01 3.0), all running like tops - spent under $5k for all of them combined. Some small cosmetic issues on two of em but the 3.0 looks nice.

Itd almost be cheaper to buy a ~2k Z3 and fully restore it then pay so much upfront

Those cars on BaT are outliers and Hagerty doesnt set prices. Z3 enthusiasts are telling you we wouldnt pay that much for the car... I would think about what that means when you try to sell it. Also note that most the collectible Z3s are 6 cyls as are most the ones setting good money on BaT. The ONLY thing the 1.9 has going for it is that it was the "first" Z3 roadster we got. But first isnt always the most collectible. "First 6 cyl roadster" "first Z3M" and "first m54 roadster" will likely be more collectible than the 1.9 in the future.

**BimmerBreaker** · 05-10-2020, 11:37 AM

Also just look at what else 12k can get you to understand why a lot of think this is such a bad deal...

This car can be negotiated down a bit, and its two generations newer: https://phoenix.craigslist.org/cph/c...121353199.html
An M6... A little higher than the budget... But I know this dealer and I know theyd negotiate: https://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/c...118835419.html
How about a new 7? These are legit fast as f... https://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/c...119233039.html
Or a Z3M: https://losangeles.craigslist.org/sg...107207895.html
Or another Z3M in the rare Emola red: https://sandiego.craigslist.org/csd/...111844505.html
A 3.0 for a reasonable price for the mileage: https://palmsprings.craigslist.org/c...117297931.html

**DMC Z3** · 05-10-2020, 01:31 PM

Yeah, we really like the car but based on opinions here, unless price is really right, it’s not worth it and better off getting a 2.8 based on my preference for pre face lifted cars. It will have to be an auto since I cannot justify having a yet another vehicle my wife cannot drive. My one concern when I drove the 1.9l auto was its highway performance. Around town it was perfectly adequate. I guess we’ll see what he says when I ask lowest he’ll take and explain the market and consensus here. If price is right we’d do it. If not, I’ll wait and see what else pops up. Criteria is 96-98 Atlanta Blue with preferably a black interior and must be automatic for wife to be on board. So probably a 97-98 2.8L Auto would be the ideal vehicle for us based on opinions here.

**DMC Z3** · 05-10-2020, 02:35 PM

Told seller he has a really nice car, but the market just isn’t there for that car anywhere near that price, and I’d have to take a pass. Thank you for the advice and if you know of any that meet my criteria, PM me or let me know here. Thank you! Car in question...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1996-BMW-Z3/324147612116?hash=item4b78b409d4:g:5TUAAOSwmjZephC B

**z3forlife** · 05-10-2020, 03:15 PM

I had a 99 2.3 auto. The wife loved it and we had it up to 197K miles with no real issues. It ran like a top and didn’t use any oil. It’s only a little less HP than the 2.8.

**spfd72** · 05-10-2020, 03:17 PM

I know the criteria you listed but that 3.0 noted above by bimmerbraker is a whole different level above the 1.9. It has a much nicer engine (some like it as well as the s52) mated to a 5 speed automatic (vs 4 speed). Has dsc (anti skid verses asc which is traction control) and better seats, side airbags and roll hoops (which despite you preference make it a safer car). If you really want a cruiser Z3 that will be satisfying one like the one listed is the one to get.

**kbollox** · 05-10-2020, 03:23 PM

IMHO Mid-west pricing is definitely hard to predict. Older cars just don't last here. Even one winters worth of driving can have long term effects that you'd not see in the south /se or west coast.

I passed on the few lower priced locals for a low mileage car from Georgia with fairly good records of annual services. 2.5i that is 19 years old and it needed nothing upon delivery- so keep your eye out, something perfect for you will pop up.