Big power Differential/Subframe for e36

[vollosso]

Following the GS6 kit we always planned to finish off the rest of the driveline, it has taken a little while but we are in the home stretch. We wanted to make a post to see who would be interested. We are a week or two out on the estimated pricing and finalization of the kit.

We wanted this to be the end all rear end option for the car, which paired with the GS6 would provide a truly reliable option for big power cars but we also wanted it to provide more gearing options, have a cheaper entry point, cheaper maintenance costs, and be more accessible.


Following that logic, we spent some time evaluating rear differentials. We wanted something that was produced as recently as possible so stock would be high, support would be around for a long time, and maintenance costs would be low. We wanted something that was as similar to the 188mm differential weight as possible to help maintain the characteristics of the e36. It would need to offer an LSD as standard, and the right unit would serve as an upgrade in every aspect for the e36.


After much deliberation we settled on the newest iteration of the classic Ford 8.8 IRS. The newest version called the “SUPER-Case” is found in all modern mustangs including the Shelby hi-power variants. These units come in a substantial range of ratios and come as both aluminum and iron case. (There is even an oem oil cooled version!! ). These units have been proven in the aftermarket and best of all can be found for extremely cheap since many Mustangs seem to end up in junkyards for one reason or another....

Benefits of this differential:

• Cheap REBUILDS: Master rebuild kits on these differentials which include everything down to the bearings run about 230$ (LINK: AMAZON)
• Lots of ratio options: Aftermarket ratios begin at 3.08 and go to 5.10 in ~0.2:1 increments.
• Comparable weight to the 188: The aluminum case option is ~75#
• Cheap replacement carriers:
• New LSD carriers run $177+
• New oem differentials can be found for the $800-900 range.
• Used and parted out differentials can be found for <$600.

Great OEM Ratios:

• Common factory differentials that are often found from 250-550$ include:
• 3.73:1 Torsen Type
• 3.15:1 standard Clutch type
• 3.55:1 Standard Clutch type

The Ford differential has a considerably different shape and mounting points, so we have taken this opportunity to design a full subframe replacement for the E36. It will be fully constructed from laser cut 7-gauge steel, and offers a number of advantages over the factory subframe.

The major focus is strength, we know those who are looking to upgrade to a large differential are interested in putting the power to the ground consistently and reliably. The 8.8 differential and subframe will handle the abuse from engines making well over 1000lb-ft of torque. The subframe and differential use solid mounting points for zero movement, while the sway bar retains a poly bushing fitted to any bar diameter. It should be obvious, but this will necessitate that the proper chassis reinforcements have been added for models without.

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Additionally, all factory suspension components and track width are retained, but with 8.4mm of roll center and camber curve correction. Many high performance e36 setups have some degree of lowering in the rear, which results in changes to the range of roll center location. For every 1mm of ride height lowering, the static roll center drops by 1.26mm For example, those with a 1.75” drop have introduced an additional half inch offset of the roll center from the CG of the car. These effects may not be drastic for mildly lowered cars when driving much below the handling limits, but those who are looking to maximize the grip and handling of their car need their system to work in full harmony. For those looking to drag or road race their car, the correction will provide greater stability from the rear end at the limit of performance.

The design was created referencing full 3D modeling of the original subframe, suspension, both differentials, and the underside of the chassis. Doing this allows precise reverse engineering, and attention to the fine details of fitment and integration. Notice: The two control arms are for geometric reference only, this kit will maintain stock or standard upgraded arms.




Now, here are a few renders of the model:








Thanks for reading! Hope you are as excited as we are!

-Zack

[M3poseur]

Wohooo!!!! Thank you for developing this kit.

[someguy2800]

nice work and good choice on the 8.8. They are great diffs.

[rathersmart]

I am really excited to see pricing on this!

Any thoughts on fully developing the kit into a subframe/driveshaft/stub axle completeness?

- - - Updated - - -

AND you’re local!

[1SLWM3]

Paying close attention!

[vollosso]

I am really excited to see pricing on this!

Any thoughts on fully developing the kit into a subframe/driveshaft/stub axle completeness?

- - - Updated - - -

AND you’re local!

Yes we will have off the shelf axles, and driveshaft to match the gs6 kit.


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[vollosso]

nice work and good choice on the 8.8. They are great diffs.

Agreed I’m really happy to see what they do!


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[m3mods]

Stoked to finally see a real solution for this platform! I have a feeling there are a few more ford 8.8's floating around than bmw 210's..

[3literheater]

This looks like it could be great! With those that already have DSS axles does the inner CV just need to be changed?

[E36Mylo]

I'm very interested in this. I currently have the 210 in the car but always worry about sourcing parts or replacing if I ever break it. I'm at the point where I'd like to reliably drop the clutch on the car on the drag strip and have it reliably put down the power and not break anything. I'll be waiting for the updates on this.

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[pbonsalb]

Some sort of chassis reinforcement kit for the front mounts would be good. Like what Chikinhed did. Sort of an E36 version of the E46 Vince Brace.

[Hova]

Pretty common upgrade for the E90/E92 335 crowd. The issue for them is the axles and the driveshaft, they are so damn expensive. You're looking at ~4k for just the diff/driveshaft/axles.
Great job btw.

[E36Mylo]

Pretty common upgrade for the E90/E92 335 crowd. The issue for them is the axles and the driveshaft, they are so damn expensive. You're looking at ~4k for just the diff/driveshaft/axles.
Great job btw.

Oh wow. That was gonna be my next question. If there was a way we could keep out driveshaft and axles.

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[Mklock]

Always bringing us the best of the best. Great job over there guys.

[Braymond141]

Pretty common upgrade for the E90/E92 335 crowd. The issue for them is the axles and the driveshaft, they are so damn expensive. You're looking at ~4k for just the diff/driveshaft/axles.
Great job btw.

This was my understanding as well. Add in the subframe kit to that.

[vollosso]

A small update, prototype kits for two cars were ordered today. 3 weeks for manufacturing. We will be updating the design as needed and move to finalize our offering by about the end of the month.

This looks like it could be great! With those that already have DSS axles does the inner CV just need to be changed?

The inners will be replaced and dss uses stock outers so nothing really to move over.

Some sort of chassis reinforcement kit for the front mounts would be good. Like what Chikinhed did. Sort of an E36 version of the E46 Vince Brace.

I need to see what he did there again. I remember he tore everything and had to spot weld it back together

in his footsteps we dropped the diff 25-50mm to aid in larger driveshafts

Always bringing us the best of the best. Great job over there guys.

You know it! Thanks for the support!

This was my understanding as well. Add in the subframe kit to that.

So I don’t want to post any pricing, yet. But let’s say the package cost will be surprising.

We’ve also set up a nice preliminary deal with a major USA based axle provider. As it materializes over the next 5-10 days we will provide more information but chromoly axles with upgraded inners that should match or outperform current offerings are going to be significantly cheaper than say dss.

We have submitted to be produced a lightly updated trans kit with more options, and moved to a different manufacturer. We will be reducing the current kit pricing slightly. We will be looking to offer a full driveline package as a package deal. Exciting times to come.


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[budgetbmw3]

This is an amazing looking setup, I really like that you made multiple improvements to the geometry of the suspension/driveshaft and didn’t just make something that fits the diff. What driveshaft options are planned for this?

[pbonsalb]

If the diff is dropped 1-2 inches that should allow 3.5” aluminum, which opens up a lot of options. The DSS 3” is a very tight fit to the center of the plastic gas tank saddle and the chassis floor at the diff input flange. I spaced my subframe down 1/2 inch with giant washers and clearance is still very minimal. The DSS 3” chromoly is really heavy. That and the lack of a flex disk make it far from ideal. A front CV instead of a Ujoint on a shaft without a flex disk like the DSS would probably be an improvement.

[E36Mylo]

If the diff is dropped 1-2 inches that should allow 3.5” aluminum, which opens up a lot of options. The DSS 3” is a very tight fit to the center of the plastic gas tank saddle and the chassis floor at the diff input flange. I spaced my subframe down 1/2 inch with giant washers and clearance is still very minimal. The DSS 3” chromoly is really heavy. That and the lack of a flex disk make it far from ideal. A front CV instead of a Ujoint on a shaft without a flex disk like the DSS would probably be an improvement.

Yes, I agree with this. Mine barely has any space around it and it's heavy as shit. I'd be very interested in this if the axles, driveshaft and subframe kit with diff could be offset by me selling my current setup.

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[Hova]

We’ve also set up a nice preliminary deal with a major USA based axle provider. As it materializes over the next 5-10 days we will provide more information but chromoly axles with upgraded inners that should match or outperform current offerings are going to be significantly cheaper than say dss.

If that's the case, target the N54 guys too. The market for them is HUGE compared to turbo E36.

Not that many E36's putting down 600+whp. Tons of N54's putting down 600+whp.

Back on topic. Excited for updates.

[Randy Forbes]

Nice work Zack, and I'm hard to please! Looks well thought out, and very thorough, I hope that you have as much success with that as I've had with the E36/ & E36/8 platform.

pbonsalb: what do you know about that Vince bar? I had a local guy ask me about putting one in for him, and I've seen lots of pictures, but don't have a clue for an estimated amount of time for installation. Of course, I'd want to replicate all the factory finishes, so that's a little more involved than using a one color matches all aerosol. Thanks for whatever you can tell me about it (I'm still getting over the shock that I'd never heard of it before, given my involvement with E46 M3s__but granted, that involvement has been mostly at the other end of the chassis).

[pbonsalb]

I don’t know much about the Vince Bar other than what I read on M3forum, which is now defunct. I think a competitor came out with an alternative. There have been a few E46 rear chassis reinforcement options but bracing the front subframe mounting points seemed to me like it made the most sense.

[E36Mylo]

I don’t know much about the Vince Bar other than what I read on M3forum, which is now defunct. I think a competitor came out with an alternative. There have been a few E46 rear chassis reinforcement options but bracing the front subframe mounting points seemed to me like it made the most sense.

This is what I have on the front of my car. It's a garagistic interpretation of the factory x brace that came on the ltws and such. It's really sturdy.

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[Randy Forbes]

I don’t know much about the Vince Bar other than what I read on M3forum, which is now defunct. I think a competitor came out with an alternative. There have been a few E46 rear chassis reinforcement options but bracing the front subframe mounting points seemed to me like it made the most sense.

Thanks! From the pictures (I *think* by Vince doing an installation...) it too looked well thought out, and invasive to install__which doesn't put me off, considering how mine (for M Coupes/Rdstrs) goes in.

This is what I have on the front of my car. It's a garagistic interpretation of the factory x brace that came on the ltws and such. It's really sturdy.

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That DOES look substantial! The std. X-brace came on every Z3/M Coupe/Rdstr, so I've always taken its benefit for granted; I don't know if I ever drove one with it left off (like after or during work on the bottom of the engine or susp).

[beeasy]

Looking forward to the updates. Thanks for keeping at it!