Another new owner

[99M3 CO]

New here and I appreciate all the information in the forums, sorry for the wall of text. There are some beautiful cars here. I bought a one owner Titan Silver ’99 coupe with 145,000 miles on it last fall. Everything on the car worked and it is in great condition, the only issues found in the inspection were a slightly loose tie rod going to a bent front strut. Bushings all look good with no bulges or cracks. It looks like all maintenance was done with BMW parts though the current thermostat housing is aluminum. I live in the mountains so during the winter I only took it out every couple of weeks to warm it up and keep the battery charged.


This spring I took it out just as the lockdown started and of course the water pump failed, broke the serpentine belt and leaked coolant. It’s been sitting in my garage since as we’ve been dealing with the current situation and waiting for the weather to get warmer. But now I’m ready to get this fixed and start planning for this summer. After all, my garage is my favorite place to self isolate. A lot of the discussions I found are several years old now but based on what I’ve read this is what I’m thinking;
Based on the age and mileage I’m thinking I should take this as an opportunity to do a fan delete package while replacing the water pump, thermostat and aux fan switches as well as the radiator. Even though the radiator looks good it seems the age should be a worry. For the radiator on a fan delete there seem to be two good choices, all aluminum like a Mishimoto or save a little money and get a 3 core MZ3 radiator which still has the plastic sides but may be better? I see a BRaymond spreadsheet referenced but couldn’t find anything in a search.


For suspension the options look almost limitless. For the next couple of years this is going to be road only and because of some of the dips, speed bumps, snow, and other conditions I’m dealing with I don’t want it to be lower. I do think there is some sag in the current springs as I seem to be about a half inch lower than stock. I did look into just getting Sachs but by the time you get them, springs and strut mounts etc. I’m at $700 plus and my car friends tell me that those are old tech and I need to get coilovers for the best ride and flexibility if I ever get a chance to track it. Based on reviews and prices low to high seems like ISC, BC Racing BR, KW V2, TC Kline.
Most of these say minimum 1” drop but based on the installation instructions I found it looks like the max height fender to hub is exactly my current height so I’m confused. Also thinking I’d rather go with cheaper suspension and spend the difference on a Quickjack. Advice?

[realjones]

Get a coolant refresh kit from fcp euro or ecstuning and replace everything. Once one part breaks the next weakest part (looking at you expansion tank) will go next. Replace it all and be done.

Personally not a 'fan' of fan deletes. You will not be gaining any noticeable hp. Why compromise a cooling system already known to be lackluster? You could do an electric fan, but I'd just put a new oem clutch fan in there if worried.

I see are already going down the e36 rabbit hole of aluminum radiators (which still leak), removing fans (which can make you overheat), coilovers ($$ for a street car), etc. It's a 20 year old car just refresh it and enjoy.

https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...-e36coolingkit
This would do you great...really don't NEED a $180 stewart water pump and $300 radiator....

[blckstrm]

I wouldn't replace the fan switches unless you have a reason (i.e. they're bad or you want a lower temp switch). I never had either switch go bad, and just replaced the aux fan switch with a lower the temp switch. Why replace known good part? It's easy enough to test if it's working - that's not something I'd put on my "pro-active" list.

There are definitely pros and cons of going to an electric fan.

One tidbit I'll mention: BMW has two relays for the electric auxiliary fan, one each for the high and low speed. I had trouble off and on after I switched to an electric fan with occasionally burning fuses and relays, and I finally realized it wasn't the fan having issues, but that I needed two relays for my new fan, too (of course I realized that BMW used two relays about the same time I realized I needed two, too).

[crqflier]

What's your reason for going fan delete? Over the years, even for folks with "good" reasons, fan delete has been trial and error with mixed results at best. For what you've described as your primary use for the foreseeable future, refresh the whole system with quality parts and do NOT get a reservoir other than BMW.

About the suspension, I probably missed it, but why would you throw springs at new Sachs dampers? Again, no need for a crazy suspension setup for what you've described - stock is more than plenty.. But unlike the cooling system, get whatever you think you want. Just know your NVH will invariably increase with little/no practical (useable) increase in performance for street.

Enjoy the rig and welcome.

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[99M3 CO]

Thanks Guys, It's easy to go of the rails when you get a new car.
From reading the what to look for when buying an E36 articles there are a lot of comments about the fan grenading. Is this overblown and not actually something to worry about? Also, the existing thermostat housing is an aluminum unit, is there any reason to replace this? Or can I just replace the thermostat?
I was thinking new springs as the current seem to be sagging as the car is about 3/4" below spec height. I'm assuming I still need to get the front upper strut mounts and rear shock mounts since those are wear items? The front strut mounts seem to be backordered or unavailable.

[vinco]

Congrats on the great find of your M3! I don't think I would change the aluminum thermostat housing, but I would probably replace the thermostat and install a new o-ring seal for the housing. The fan grenading seems to be as much a motor mounts issue as a fan issue.

[crqflier]

Agreed with @vinco. On the fan, one thing to look at while you're in there is the fan clutch. When you pull the fan off to do the radiator, spin it. It should not spin freely, there should be some tension to it. On the springs, I'd be surprised if that's the reason for the imbalance. How bad is it?

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[99M3 CO]

On the front, the drivers side is 22 5/8" from bottom of wheel lip to fender. On the passenger side it is 23". I expect about 1/8" or less of that is the bent drivers side strut but it's not that bent.
The rear is 22" on the drivers side and 22 3/16" on the passenger.

The fan clutch drags when I turn it and I don't see any stress discolorations on the fan blades from getting whipped by the belt so maybe I can keep it.

[KimoSabe]

Congrats on the M3! I'm on my 3rd M3 with my current one at 310k. Had an e46 M3 and a few e30 M3s and the e36 is my favorite still. Since your M3 is mainly for the street, I would recommend the following.

Honestly, only thing I would upgrade is the Z3M radiator. Maybe do a Stewart WP if you like. I'm not a fan of the fan delete or any of the aluminum rads. I think electric fan is overkill, just insurance for a track car. My aux fan was dead for 6 months when I was living in the central CA valley and it never got pass the middle. Stick with OEM thermostat housing. Easiest way to test the fan clutch is turn the engine off, if it's still spinning, its dying. Or stick a rolled newspaper on the blade with nine on. If it stops, there's your answer, dead. I would rather drive across the country with a fresh stock cooling system than a completely modded "upgraded" one. I live in HI now where it's warm all year with the AC on everyday, no worries at all.

On suspension, I've had TCKline (loved it, expensive, overkill for street), CG CO (same as TC but cheaper),H&R Race w/Koni adjustable(OK, if you're still in your 20s but too low for the shocks IMO), H&R OE w/Koni adjustable (loved it) and now H&R OE w/SACHS. Decided to get the SACHs because they were cheap and the roads in HI are shitty. Are they worth saving 300 over the Yellow Konis? Definitely not!! With the Konis at it's softest, they handle better and rode smoother. My Konis had 100K on them with the rears a little worn and I would swap them back today. If you want a bit lower, go H&R Sports .

Just my .02, lots of suggestions out there. Have fun!


Don't have the link but saved a screenshot of Braymonds cooling list.

[MauiM3Mania]

Do you have any photos showing how the car sits?

re: the engine driven fan, if you can stop it from turning by inserting a rolled-up newspaper into the blades when the engine is running and hot, the fan clutch is bad.

[99M3 CO]

Thanks KimoSabe,
The Z3M Looks like a good upgrade for the minor cost difference. But I see it is thicker. There is still enough clearance for the fan? It sure looks tight in there.
I've had Koni's on a previous car and liked them but they failed at about 75,000 miles which was disappointing for the cost. I would still probably go with them but have to cut the existing struts and with one bent I've decided against. Probably go H&R OE and Sachs like you did if I determine the springs are shot.
Thanks for the list.

[99M3 CO]

Here are photos.IMG_3990.jpgIMG_3989.jpgIMG_3991.jpg With the other side being about 1/4" higher.

[pizzaman09]

If you do buy a fan or clutch, just make sure you read the reviews. Some of them are very bad and will grenade. With the cost if a grenaded fan, I recommend just going oem.
I do have a Mishimoto radiator in mine, previous owner put it in, along with a stock expansion tank. It works, no issues.

I spent three years trying to keep my project e36 from over heating, turns out it had a bad fan clutch and non functioning electric auxiliary fan. Keypoint, you need a fan.

[TostitoBandito]

I wouldn't say a radiator upgrade is mandatory, but if you're gonna rip all the rest out I guess you may as well.

I replaced my original radiator when the neck cracked many years ago with a new OEM Behr radiator (I think it was the first work I ever did on my M3). That was before I ever tracked the car or anything. That said, I've never had any overheating issues on the track during 30+ minute sessions running flat out, all with the OEM radiator. But, if I were doing it again today, I'd probably go for the Z3M or a Mishimoto radiator. I also run the Stewart pump and have replaced basically all the hoses, the expansion tank, thermostat & housing, belts and pulleys, etc...

[John in Houston]

Also note, you lose cooling efficiency at altitude. You really want to keep the stock clutch fan if you are going to drive it and potentially sit in traffic. Higher the altitude, the lower the air density, the lower the boiling point. Your location says you are at a higher altitude than me (I'm at 6800'). Also note that there is more air restriction in a stock car (aux fan, AC condenser, radiator, etc).... so lower density and reduced airflow all add to the equation.

My 97 M3/4/5 runs the S54/Z3 radiator with the OEM aux fan and OEM fan clutch and fan. When the clutch was weak, I had issues with the car running hot in traffic. Fixed the weak clutch and replaced the fan. Just recently replaced the Aux fan as well. No issues since.

Track car runs no fan clutch and only has an electric puller fan. In grid and post-race impound, the electric fan is running... especially at HPR, Pueblo or PPIR. On track the car has zero cooling issues as I have a huge radiator with sealed ducting and hood vents to extract the air.

2020-04-26_15-36-43.jpg

[blckstrm]

Have you tried swapping the springs from side to side to see if the problem follows the springs?

You could just try the rears since it would only take a few minutes.

[99M3 CO]

No I hadn't. That's a good idea, I'll try next weekend.

[99M3 CO]

Update on the work done.
I went with the Z3 radiator, new water pump, thermostat, and after checking the pulleys got a new tensioner and pulley plus hoses etc. The radiator was original from ’99 and it appears the water pump and pulleys were as well. After doing it the engine idles a little quieter but the failing bearings on the pump weren’t obvious. Anyways the upshot is that I’m now getting almost 2 miles per gallon better gas mileage so the pump and pulleys must have really been dragging. I guess I need a better ear for this engine.
Next up is checking the springs and replacing the struts. I think you guys talked me into just replacing with Sachs.

[SIIDEWAYS]

From reading the what to look for when buying an E36 articles there are a lot of comments about the fan grenading. Is this overblown and not actually something to worry about?

Interesting to read about fans grenading. In all my 23+ years of ownership I've never once had this issue.

[TostitoBandito]

I've owned my 1999 for over 12 years and I've had zero issues with the fan or fan clutch. My diff grenaded though, cause BMW thought it was cool to not use thread locker.

[John in Houston]

Interesting to read about fans grenading. In all my 23+ years of ownership I've never once had this issue.

The only 'grenading' I've ever seen was caused by worn (collapsed) motor mounts, which allowed the fan to make contact (usually with the shroud) and thus 'grenade'. I just pulled the one off my 289k mile M3 and there were some small stress cracks, but no sign of failure. Only replaced it because I was replacing everything 'while I was in there'.

[MauiM3Mania]

I was photographing auto-x runs and saw a friend's 98 M3 lose the fan during a run. Made a 'nice' dent in the hood... 108k miles. I assume original motor mounts.

[99M3 CO]

So I finally got some time and checked my shocks and struts. The structs are original BMW and I'm replacing them but the rears are Sachs and are obviously newer. To see if the rears are any good I pulled the bottom off and worked the shock. It wasn't obviously shot and wasn't loose when switching direction but I could compress it with one hand. How stiff are these supposed to be when new?

And Siideways I don't know if you want to keep that tag line, That's exactly how I got my One Owner M3. It was a little discomforting when I found out he wasn't much older than me.

[TostitoBandito]

Yeah it's normal to be able to compress shocks by hand. They should provide increasing resistance though the harder you push. They control how fast the suspension moves, so they just serve to moderate the bouncing that your springs want to do. Your springs are doing the heavy lifting in terms of compression.

[99M3 CO]

Finally getting ready to do the front struts. I saw in the Definitive Alignment Guide that it was recommended to swap the upper strut mounts, is this still the recommended procedure for a daily driver? Does it matter if it is struts or coilovers?