Can't turn key to start position?

[lorkp]

Hi everyone,

I'm getting around to sorting out the ignition assembly. When I got the car, it was wired with a push button start, but I wanted to go back to the original turn-key. My assumption was that the ignition switch in the car was bad (leading to the push-button install), and I think the PO thought so too because a replacement was included in the box o' parts that came with the car. I disconnected the push button, wired in the replacement ignition switch, and have been starting the car by operating the ignition switch with a screw driver. I had left it uninstalled from the steering column--until today.

So today I took out the old switch and put the new one in. I can turn the ignition on (dash lights come on) but I can't get it to the start/crank part of the key's rotation (which I assume is spring loaded like other cars?). Attached is a video of turning the ignition to on, but then the key runs out of travel. Is it the tumbler? I took the tumbler out, noted how much the key could turn uninstalled and its the same as when its in the column, so I'm assuming the housing it plugs into isn't limiting it. I've actually attached a photo of the maximum my key will turn. Do other peoples keys turn farther? I appreciate any thoughts, guys. I'm thinking about getting a new tumbler.

By the way the steering wheel lock seems to be operating correctly--or at least the steering wheel locks when the key is removed, and when I insert and turn the key I can unlock it...

Thanks!

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[320iAman]

Did you put back in the Grub Screw when you changed the ignition switch and the ignition keys ? The ignition switch is spring loaded and you should feel spring tension when it is in the start position and then feel the spring back tension when the car is started and you release the key from start position to run position. The grub screw holds the ignition assembly in the correct position for its spring loaded mechanism to work properly with a good ignition switch.

errata- holds the ignition switch in correct position,,ect. A small bolt locks ignition assembly in place.

Randy

[lorkp]

Hey Randy,

In my haste I had actually not put the grub screw back in before testing. I just went back to garage and put it back in but still no dice. When I turn the key, I don't get to the spring loaded portion at all--it stops at on/run. I posted a picture of my key's position when it's at its maximum travel. Does your key turn farther relative to that notch at 12 o'clock?

Thanks,
Loren

[320iAman]

The ignition system has several parts, the ignition switch which is in the back and locked in by a grub screw, the ignition tumbler which the ignition key goes in , and the ignition barrel or tube,, the ignition switch which is spring loaded has to be connected to the ignition tumbler, both these fit inside the ignition tube or barrel.

The ignition tumbler has tabs that lock it in to the ignition tube. If the ignition tumbler is defective, you'll get indicator lights sometimes, ect yet can block the the key from moving into accessory, run and or start positions.

When mine went sideways-I replaced the whole ignition system, the switch, tube and tumbler with new ignition keys,,tumblers come with new keys (2).

The off position of the ignition key-tumbler is flat-like what you have at 12 o'clock is accessory at 1 or 2 o'clock is run postion and at 3 o'clock is start position.

Whats happening is the start position is blocked or you have a problem in Line No 50 going to start solenoid, there is also a few wires that have to be connected that are right next to the ignition barrel or tube.

I'd take out the whole mechanism, switch, barrel or tube with key tumbler and check out each part. The steering wheel lock is part of the ignition tube or barrel or housing if you prefer.

I have used a spackling thin flat blade to get the spring loaded steering wheel lock in the ignition tube past the steering wheel fracture bolt when removing, ect.

To keep the One Key System in effect if the problem is your ignition tumbler, you'll have to remove it and get the tumbler rebuilt at a locksmith shop that rebuilds automotive ignition switch tumblers.

Randy

[lorkp]

So the key should be able to rotate 180 degrees from insert to start position, i.e. 9 o'clock to 3 o'clock? Even with the tumbler taken out the housing, the key tops out at about 2 o'clock. So looks like it's my tumbler then?

[320iAman]

It should turn from 9 to 3 yes. You can check the ignition switch by removing the grub screw and pulling or carefully prying it out, battery disconnected, then turn it thru the positions and see if its good or not, its a good idea to check these before installing to make sure the spring back mechanism is good. Then check out the other items one by one till you find the problem and repair it.
Make sure the ignition switch is seated fully in correct position.

Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth. Sherlock Holmes

open-uri20150708-6288-18vc2pu.jpg1318482_x800.jpeg switch2.jpg NewIgnition.jpg

Items in pictures 1 and 3 fit together tight in Picture 2 and held in place by tiny grub screw. 2 is called steering wheel lock and houses the ignition switch and the key lock tumbler mechanism which unlocks the steering wheel and turns the ignition switch from off to accessory to run to start positions to run position, etc with key inserted and turned thru the bar in the steering wheel lock that connects the ignition tumbler lock to the ignition switch.

Randy

[thescassidy]

Just want to let you know that I have the exact same issue right now and am trying to remedy it. I'm pretty sure that, like you, my tumbler is toast since I'm able to turn the car on by operating the ignition switch with a screwdriver. Also when attaching the steering lock assembly to the ignition switch and turning the center, metal "key" thing with a pair of long nose pliers, the car turns over. It would seem my tumbler is the issue but I can't find a replacement, yet.

Good luck and interested to see what either of us do from this point on.

- Sean

[lorkp]

Thanks for the write-up Randy! It helped a lot in understanding how everything fits together.

So it was the tumbler! I was fortunate to be able to check out the new tumbler in person before committing to buying. The new tumbler turned just a few degrees farther. It was so slight that I was on the fence about buying it, but I took the gamble and it did the trick. I attached a picture to show new vs old.

Sean, I think it'd be worth getting a new tumbler. Part number 32321108976. A couple of reputable online parts places have it. I think it's also worth fishing out the metal rod / plastic disc assembly in the column lock that couples the electrical switch and tumbler. The plastic disc sits on the rod with a spring that provides rotational tension. The spring works against a tab on the metal rod and then in opposite direction on a tab on the plastic disc. My plastic piece wasn't seated correctly. When I corrected it, it seemed to give me a tiny bit more travel with the key. It wasn't enough for my situation, because I needed a new tumbler ultimately, but maybe it would be enough for yours, if it's out of alignment.

So Randy, did you have your ignition tumbler rebuilt to match the other locks on your car? Was it expensive?

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