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Thread: M70 MAF Availability

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
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    Victoria, BC, Canada
    Posts
    158
    My Cars
    91 850i

    M70 MAF Availability

    I've recently found myself in the market for a new MAF for my 1991 850i. The dealer pricing makes a BMW/Bosch unit unrealistic. After searching the forum it appears that the majority of 'new' MAFs out there (ebay, amazon, etc) are junk. The consensus seems to be that the Cardone's units, however, are a reasonable alternative as they provide OE functionality (hot wire, same response curve). I started tracking down a Cardone unit.

    This may not be news to some, but it turns out they are back ordered, with both brick and mortar and most websites unable to provide an ETA. According to Summit Racing, they are back ordered to July 15, although this date increases each day. I reached out to Cardone directly, and unsurprisingly, their production lines are shutdown for the foreseeable future. However, the good news is that Cardone will still be producing them, and they will be available. At some point.

    Hopefully someone in the same position as me finds this info helpful as we approach the driving season.
    Last edited by DeltaSix; 04-17-2020 at 11:57 AM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    San Antonio
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    850,76 2002 &530,84 633
    Try Rockauto for the Walker brand: http://www.walkerproducts.com/wp-con...AF_Catalog.pdf

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Santa Barbara
    Posts
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    My Cars
    91 Dinan860 & 91 850 6sp
    https://www.rockauto.com/en/parts/wa...ow+sensor,5128 ~$120, best price.
    Amazon has them too, but ~$135
    '91 Dinan 860 Stage III (new 6L engine)
    '91 Dinan 850 TT stage III (brand new engine) 21st Century Tech meets 18th Century Dinan...
    '91 850i 6sp (mint) (sold)
    '90 Dinan 750iL TT stage III (Guido - The Beast)
    '94 850 CSi The Detroit Auto Show car (restored to factory perfect) (sold)
    '96 850Ci, The George Carlin car
    ''73 3.0 csi, '08 535i, '03 X5 4.6is
    ...and a few other non BMW cars

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
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    Japan
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    11/88 E32 750iL+98 E36M3
    Are the Walker 245-1208 really good for the M70? I just read this thread about Walker on the M70 and the comments by dragon850: New MAF Sensors but still having Trans Failsafe Mode https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...-Failsafe-Mode
    @JDP530: you installed the Walker MAF's 2 years ago, so there should be sufficient experience by now.
    Shogun tricks and tips for the E32 series are HERE!

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
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    San Antonio
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    My Cars
    850,76 2002 &530,84 633
    Yes, I did install them on my car and they seemed to perform pretty well. Occasionally it would hunt for a steady idle with cold startup. Fitment was fine, housings were almost identical, and plug receptacles were the same as the OEM. I didn't leave them on very long because they did not solve the issues I was having with my car. My car is down right now also because I'm waiting on another auto transmission to put in it. I meant to send the Walker sensors out to cartoonz and let him evaluate them but I never did.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
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    Shoreview MN
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    977
    My Cars
    Had a 1991 BMW 850

    Walker

    I have the Walker set on my 850. They seem to work fine, I also have the Intermittent LHM that will go away if I back off and get back into throttle. The ones on my car were dead, these made it run better but not perfect. My Opionion is that I still have DK Throttle body potentionmer issues

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Posts
    10,384
    My Cars
    '93 850Ci- Daily Driver
    I’ve had the WALKER MAFS on my car for the last 8/9 years and no problems.
    '93 850Ci - Mineralweiß Metallic

    2001 740iL - Titansilber
    ALPINA B7 -Alpinweiß III


    ...the price of cool ain't cheap!

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
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    Victoria, BC, Canada
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    91 850i

    M70 MAF Availability

    Thanks for all the replies. Wow, wasn’t expecting such a response. Seems to be a hot topic!

    I’m going to give the walkers a try but I’ve also put in an order for the Cardone MAFs. I am curious what the difference will be, if or when the Cardone units become available.


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    Last edited by DeltaSix; 04-18-2020 at 02:04 PM.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Vancouver Canada
    Posts
    419
    My Cars
    '91 850i, E39 & E46 Cars
    DeltaSix- are you part of our BC Eights group ......? Wuffer is the contact if you are not on our roster. No dues, just WrenchFests, some driving events, the annual German Car Festival at Waterfront Park in North Van. Our little group puts out a newsletter from time to time.
    HenryC- in Tsawwassen

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
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    Victoria, BC, Canada
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    91 850i
    Quote Originally Posted by henryc View Post
    DeltaSix- are you part of our BC Eights group ......? Wuffer is the contact if you are not on our roster. No dues, just WrenchFests, some driving events, the annual German Car Festival at Waterfront Park in North Van. Our little group puts out a newsletter from time to time.
    HenryC- in Tsawwassen
    Hey Henry, thanks for thinking of that. I already am in fact. You and I actually met at Wuffer’s a couple of years ago. I think you were pulling a CSI bumper off of one of Wuffer’s parts cars.

    Work kept me busy last wrenchfest season but I’ll definitely have to hop the pod this year.


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  11. #11
    Join Date
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    Vancouver Canada
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    My Cars
    '91 850i, E39 & E46 Cars
    Is your E31 Laguna Green?

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
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    Victoria, BC, Canada
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    91 850i
    Quote Originally Posted by henryc View Post
    Is your E31 Laguna Green?
    Yep that is mine.

    Jaimie in Victoria


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  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
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    6.5 second 69 Camaro
    Some old Maf info:


    If any need just a used replacement Maf, You can get from the 24 cars listed below,

    Now the 850 owners may be able to get some more power using a combination of Bored out throttle body + Higher Flow MAF from the BMW E36 325i. Yes it may benefit from ECU programming to optimize the AF mixture. Can be installed in one afternoon with simple hand tools and completely reversible in about the same time.


    Also, 19Lb injectors in place of the stock 14 lb injectors. MAF sensor from 92 325i(pre Sep,92), 3" ID versus 850i stock MAF sensor which is 2 5/8" ID. This combination alone will support 420 HP(6 PSI) without any other mods, Factory motronics will handle since effectively the injectors and MAF are matched. A cartech FMU will handle fuel needs beyond 420 HP.



    BMW MASS AIR FLOW METER SENSOR MAF 318 750 850 Z3 92-98
    Brand BMW Mass Air Flow Sensor Meter

    BMW # 13621736224

    BOSCH # 0280217110 , 0 280 217 110



    This part is compatible with 24 vehicle(s).




    Year Make and Model Type Engine
    1996-1998 BMW 318I E36 1.9L
    1993-1995 BMW 318IC E36 1.8L
    1996-1998 BMW 318IC E36 1.9L
    1996-1997 BMW 318IS E36 1.9L
    1995 BMW 318TI E36 1.8L
    1996-1999 BMW 318TI E36 1.9L
    1995-2001 BMW 750IL E36 5.4L
    1995-1997 BMW 850CI E31 5.4L
    1992 BMW 850I E31 5.0L
    1995-1998 BMW Z3 ROADSTER 1.9L
    Year Make Model Trim Engine Notes
    1995 BMW 318ti All All
    1995 BMW 750iL All All
    1995 BMW 850Ci All All
    1992 BMW 850i All All
    Year Make Model Trim Engine Notes
    2001 BMW 750iL All All
    2000 BMW 750iL All All
    1999 BMW 318ti All All
    1999 BMW 750iL All All
    1998 BMW 318i All All
    1998 BMW 318ti All All
    1998 BMW 750iL All All
    1998 BMW Z3 All All
    1997 BMW 318i All All

    So now you can get some spares at your local salvage yard,)

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Northern VA
    Posts
    311
    My Cars
    1991 BMW 850i
    Based on recommendations above just got these Walker MAF’s. Will test them over the weekend and report back.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    ========
    91 850i 6-speed, 2018 M550 - wife mobile, Lexus GX460 - Family mobile

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Northern VA
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    My Cars
    1991 BMW 850i
    Ok, so these Walker MAF’s are a no go for me. The engine wasn’t idling properly with these and the CEL came on within a minute. Read the error code - pointed to O2 sensor. I also felt the engine was running too rich. I cleared the code and tried again - same result.

    BTW - I have brand new O2 sensors installed. So they are definitely not a problem.

    I was looking to install a new MAF to address loss of throttle when the engine is cold but looks like another round of cleaning the original MAF’s with a detergent (just kidding - used a MAF cleaner) might have done the trick .

    So needless to say these MAF’s need to “walk” back to RockAuto.


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    ========
    91 850i 6-speed, 2018 M550 - wife mobile, Lexus GX460 - Family mobile

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Victoria, BC, Canada
    Posts
    158
    My Cars
    91 850i

    M70 MAF Availability

    I gave the Walker MAFs a go as well the past week. My initial experience was the same as akatock: CEL + o2 codes in DIS

    However, I thought perhaps the fuel trimming might be way off from the previous set of MAFs and was the cause of the CEL. I decided to allow some time for the computer to adjust to its new inputs.

    After a week of driving, perhaps 200km, I can happily report that I am no longer seeing a CEL and drivability has been restored to when I had working MAFs previously—subjectively better, in fact.


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  17. #17
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
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    Vancouver Canada
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    '91 850i, E39 & E46 Cars
    Akatoch - I examined your photo quite closely of the MAF's on your workbench. Looks like you received the French MAF units for the E31, which operate metrically, or French ohms as they say in Renault product development. This is most likely the reason for the CEL being set off on your E31 USA production version. One only needs to flip the switch on the under side of these French metric MAF units to have them function imperially rather than metrically, thus communicating with your USA version E31 electronics. These French MAF units would be perfectly happy on E31's originally shipped to French speaking Quebec Canada. Hope this helps.

    OK......- Ha ha....just a little humor/ Henry

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
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    Santa Barbara
    Posts
    3,462
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    91 Dinan860 & 91 850 6sp
    when replacing MAFs, it is always a good idea to do a hard reset. (disconnect batteries)
    This resets all adaptations and base values.

    ..and Henry, he is lucky he did not get the Portuguese versions!
    '91 Dinan 860 Stage III (new 6L engine)
    '91 Dinan 850 TT stage III (brand new engine) 21st Century Tech meets 18th Century Dinan...
    '91 850i 6sp (mint) (sold)
    '90 Dinan 750iL TT stage III (Guido - The Beast)
    '94 850 CSi The Detroit Auto Show car (restored to factory perfect) (sold)
    '96 850Ci, The George Carlin car
    ''73 3.0 csi, '08 535i, '03 X5 4.6is
    ...and a few other non BMW cars

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Northern VA
    Posts
    311
    My Cars
    1991 BMW 850i
    A little humor never hurts, considering these cars joke with our brains and wallets all the time .

    But I haven’t shipped those MAF’s back yet - I might try the battery disconnect method.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    ========
    91 850i 6-speed, 2018 M550 - wife mobile, Lexus GX460 - Family mobile

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
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    Vancouver Canada
    Posts
    419
    My Cars
    '91 850i, E39 & E46 Cars
    Cartoonz- Right On, regarding the Portuguese version MAF's.

    Also a good tip re the hard reset.


  21. #21
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Northern VA
    Posts
    311
    My Cars
    1991 BMW 850i
    Ok “magic reset” didn’t help with the Walker MAF’s either. So they are definitely going back.

    Anyone have recommendations for alternatives?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    ========
    91 850i 6-speed, 2018 M550 - wife mobile, Lexus GX460 - Family mobile

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Northern VA
    Posts
    311
    My Cars
    1991 BMW 850i
    Quote Originally Posted by 8eights View Post
    Some old Maf info:


    If any need just a used replacement Maf, You can get from the 24 cars listed below,

    Now the 850 owners may be able to get some more power using a combination of Bored out throttle body + Higher Flow MAF from the BMW E36 325i. Yes it may benefit from ECU programming to optimize the AF mixture. Can be installed in one afternoon with simple hand tools and completely reversible in about the same time.


    Also, 19Lb injectors in place of the stock 14 lb injectors. MAF sensor from 92 325i(pre Sep,92), 3" ID versus 850i stock MAF sensor which is 2 5/8" ID. This combination alone will support 420 HP(6 PSI) without any other mods, Factory motronics will handle since effectively the injectors and MAF are matched. A cartech FMU will handle fuel needs beyond 420 HP.



    BMW MASS AIR FLOW METER SENSOR MAF 318 750 850 Z3 92-98
    Brand BMW Mass Air Flow Sensor Meter

    BMW # 13621736224

    BOSCH # 0280217110 , 0 280 217 110



    This part is compatible with 24 vehicle(s).




    YearMake and ModelTypeEngine
    1996-1998BMW 318I E361.9L
    1993-1995BMW 318ICE361.8L
    1996-1998BMW 318ICE361.9L
    1996-1997BMW 318ISE361.9L
    1995BMW 318TI E361.8L
    1996-1999BMW 318TI E361.9L
    1995-2001BMW 750ILE365.4L
    1995-1997BMW 850CIE315.4L
    1992BMW 850IE315.0L
    1995-1998BMW Z3 ROADSTER 1.9L
    YearMakeModelTrimEngineNotes
    1995BMW318tiAllAll
    1995BMW750iLAllAll
    1995BMW850CiAllAll
    1992BMW850iAllAll
    YearMakeModelTrimEngineNotes
    2001BMW750iLAllAll
    2000BMW750iLAllAll
    1999BMW318tiAllAll
    1999BMW750iLAllAll
    1998BMW318iAllAll
    1998BMW318tiAllAll
    1998BMW750iLAllAll
    1998BMWZ3AllAll
    1997BMW318iAllAll

    So now you can get some spares at your local salvage yard,)
    Anyone try a MAF from the models listed in this post?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    ========
    91 850i 6-speed, 2018 M550 - wife mobile, Lexus GX460 - Family mobile

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Victoria, BC, Canada
    Posts
    158
    My Cars
    91 850i

    M70 MAF Availability

    Akatoch asked me last weekend about whether the car seemed rich at idle with the Walker MAFs. I finally got around to checking my adaptation values and wanted to post the results and some research/thoughts about my findings. I should preface this with the fact that the Walkers are working fine out of the box for me. Although the adaptations did need to be adjusted (automatically by the ECUs) before my CEL cleared.

    Before I swapped in the Walkers I had recorded my Idle and Partial Load trims as:
    Cyl 1-6 Cyl 7-12
    LL: 14 LL:20
    TL: 4 TL:-26

    With the Walker MAFs these values are now:
    Cyl 1-6 Cyl 7-12
    LL: 127 LL:65
    TL: -18 TL:-21


    The partial load trims look fine. More or less in the middle of the adaptation range. However, the idle trim of 127 on a Cyl 1-6 gave me pause since that is suspiciously exact to the max value for a signed 8-bit integer. It seems reasonable, based on the age of the car and its electronics, that there is an 8-bit register for fuel trim and that value is currenlty maxed out. I don't have a CEL, but there isn't much room for variation if the value is already maxed out. I decided to look into why this might be.

    With a simple replacement of MAFs, what could cause such a drastic difference in the fuel trims between pre- and post-replacement? The first posibility is that the Walker MAFs are not a correct for the M70 engine. Aftermarket parts are always suspect, so a very reasonable proposition.

    However, I came across this page on the e31 repair guide: http://e31repair.com/en/repair/htm/0185.html

    Bottom right, step 3: "CO Level Correction. Remove anti-tamper lock. Correct CO setting on mass sensor with screwdriver, if necessary".

    Ah ha! So that's what the screw on the Walkers is for. This leads to the second posibility: MAFs need to be calibrated to your specific engine, or at least "dialed in". Walker MAFs just "helpfully" don't have a tamper plug on the screw.

    I came across this post from 2010 https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...justment-screw that indicates this is something people have noticed before.

    There is also this post from the e30 forums that goes into an indepth explanation on how to adjust the trim on the MAF, if you don't have DIS or a CO sensor (it involves tapping into the O2 sensor voltage while you adjust the MAF). https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?1339369-AFM-air-screw-adjustment&p=17827272#post17827272

    The long and short of my interpretation of all this: New MAFs likely need to be adjusted. If they are not adjusted properly the O2 voltage at Idle can potentially be too rich or too lean, causing a CEL. Generally, for most people, it seems that they are set at the factory in such a way that the MAFs don't cause a CEL. I should also point out that before adjusting your MAF you must be 100% certain that there is no unmetered air getting into the engine, and that the FPRs are functioning correctly. Basically, don't think adjusting the MAF will be a cure for other issues.

    I certainly dont have a CO mixture probe, but I do have access to DIS. My next plan is to use DIS to monitor the LL, TL and O2 voltage such that the trims are closer to 0 at idle (at least not -128 or 127) AND confirm that the O2 voltage fluctuates, rather than be pinned at one Vmax or the other.
    Last edited by DeltaSix; 05-17-2020 at 02:10 PM.

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Northern VA
    Posts
    311
    My Cars
    1991 BMW 850i
    Wow thanks for the detailed post! I will try to install them again, one MAF at a time and play around with the adjustment screw to see if I am able to stabilize the idle and smooth out the throttle response.

    Today's trial run stunk up the entire area around the house with gasoline and exhaust and the family wasn't pleased with the situation , next time I do this I will go to an open playground .
    ========
    91 850i 6-speed, 2018 M550 - wife mobile, Lexus GX460 - Family mobile

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
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    My Cars
    BMW, E31 850i, E90, E70
    This adjusting screw is not for mixture adjustment in oxygen sensor controlled engines:
    MAF.jpg

    The pin is not even connected.
    It will only work for systems without oxygen sensor / catalyst.


    Here is some more information to this MAF topic:

    1.)
    https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...or-M70-Engines

    2.) You can change the language in the menu:
    https://www.8er.info/der-luftmassenm...m-8er-bmw-e31/

    3.)
    http://www.8er.org/forum/showthread.php?17051
    Last edited by black850i DE; 05-18-2020 at 07:49 AM.
    Regards
    Johannes

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