OE clutch and flywheel?

[Ajcanadian]

Hi guys, I've got a 99 M3 and I might need to do a clutch soon. Will a LuK DMF work with a Sachs clutch kit? My car is a summer daily that'll probably see some track days. With that being said, should I get a light weight flywheel or stick to the OE dual mass flywheel? Thanks!

[bluptgm3]

I have run both the UUC LW FW kit and the Rogue LW FW kit and prefer the Rogue set up. Heel-toe exercise is much easier, a long with clutch delay valve delete.


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[Ajcanadian]

I have run both the UUC LW FW kit and the Rogue LW FW kit and prefer the Rogue set up. Heel-toe exercise is much easier, a long with clutch delay valve delete.


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Did you also safety wire your oil pump nut after/before swapping the light weight flywheel?

[bluptgm3]

No, no safety wire on OPN.
OE clutch was replaced ~164K miles.
The Rogue setup lasted about 100K miles. UUC setup in current use, still using the M3 slave. The UUC kit suggests the use of a 325 slave for better peddle feel.


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[propcar]

Is the Rogue setup the same JB racing flywheels that Bimmerworld offers?

I'd probably be looking at this setup if I had to replace clutch. Great price, E34 M5 sprung hub clutch.

https://www.bimmerworld.com/Drivelin...t-Stage-I.html

[NeilM]

I've had a lightweight flywheel setup (UUC, 8.5 lb, E34 M5 sprung hub clutch plate) on my car for the last 15 years and am very satisfied with it.

However it's not for everybody.

Gearbox rattle at idle, especially with the A/C on, is loud, to the point where you have to reassure people that yeah it's supposed to sound that way — because race car! Low rpm gear shifts are actually less smooth, since the revs drop so quickly. Clutch engagement is more abrupt than stock, since I also have a Sachs Racing pressure plate.

On the plus side, the engine revs very quickly, and high rpm shifts, up or down, are wonderful. Since my M3 is driven only to, from and on the track, the advantages of the lightweight flywheel for my usage outweigh its disadvantages.

Tolerance for the side effects of a lightweight flywheel is very much a personal thing, but for most people I'd advise against it unless yours is mainly a track car.

Another possible option is a "midweight" flywheel. Rogue Engineering offers a 12-lb steel flywheel kit that might be interesting. Compare this with the 26-lb stock flywheel on the 3.2 engine (the 3.0's is a bit lighter, I believe). I've had no personal experience with this, but it might be a good setup for a car that spends most of its time on the street?

Neil

[propcar]

Only one negative I see to the mid-weight flywheel is it's like $300 more expensive than the Aluminum... you'd think it would be the other way around.

[NoLastName]

Over the years I've used in my track car:

- LUK DMF037 flywheel (stock 95 piece) + Sachs clutch
- UUC flywheel + E34 M5 clutch
- LUK DMF073 + Sachs clutch
- Tilton 7.25" dual disc setup

My favorite for dual duty is LUK DMF073 + Sachs. That's basically a stock replacement for your '99 M3. The DMF073 flywheel is lightened by machining out large chunks of the outer inertia ring compared to earlier versions. I remember weighing the -037 and -073 flywheels side by side. As I recall, the -073 is 3-4lbs lighter. It makes a nice difference in rev matching but it's still a dual mass that minimizes gearbox rattle. I hate gearbox rattle in street cars!

My M3 has transitioned to 100% track use. Currently I'm running a Tilton 7.25" dual disc that weighs 16lbs total (8lb flywheel + 8lb clutch). It's super quick and positive on track. However the light weight provides zero damping for gearbox noises and it's a basket design so the clutch discs rattle around inside when the clutch is disengaged. Below is what the Tilton sounds like. It's obviously an extreme example - but when you switch to a light single mass flywheel you can expect some of this "cement mixer" noise to become more noticeable.



My least favorite was the UUC + E34 M5 clutch. Something about the stack height or diaphragm spring of that setup makes the clutch pedal way too light. I couldn't feel anything the clutch was doing through the pedal, even with the recommended 325i slave cylinder swap. It was too easy to either stall out or slip the clutch too much. I got used to driving with it but I also hated it. Gearbox noise was quite loud, though not nearly as loud as the Tilton. As NeilM said, it can be loud enough inside and outside the car that people think something is wrong. If you have a low tolerance for noise I'd stick with a dual mass.

From my perspective it's hard to beat a LUK DMF073 + Sachs clutch for daily driving with occasional track use. It's quiet, revs ok and is extremely easy to drive.

[NeilM]

Only one negative I see to the mid-weight flywheel is it's like $300 more expensive than the Aluminum... you'd think it would be the other way around.

I noticed that too. Only a guess, but I'm thinking lower manufacturing volume and longer machining time than when cutting aluminum.

Neil

[NeilM]

My least favorite was the UUC + E34 M5 clutch. Something about the stack height or diaphragm spring of that setup makes the clutch pedal way too light.

My high clamping force Sachs Racing pressure plate took care of the light pedal effort that's characteristic of the UUC kit. The end result is a bit heavier than stock, although it's certainly not objectionably so.

Neil

[NoLastName]

My high clamping force Sachs Racing pressure plate took care of the light pedal effort that's characteristic of the UUC kit. The end result is a bit heavier than stock, although it's certainly not objectionably so.

Ah, nice. That could be a decent combo then. With the full UUC kit as it arrived I was wishing for MUCH heavier pedal and grabbier feel.

[Omairtheman1]

I am hearing the ECS Tuning Fly Wheel combined with a SACHS clutch is a good combination... Anyone else have this setup?

[Ajcanadian]

Over the years I've used in my track car:

- LUK DMF037 flywheel (stock 95 piece) + Sachs clutch
- UUC flywheel + E34 M5 clutch
- LUK DMF073 + Sachs clutch
- Tilton 7.25" dual disc setup

My favorite for dual duty is LUK DMF073 + Sachs. That's basically a stock replacement for your '99 M3. The DMF073 flywheel is lightened by machining out large chunks of the outer inertia ring compared to earlier versions. I remember weighing the -037 and -073 flywheels side by side. As I recall, the -073 is 3-4lbs lighter. It makes a nice difference in rev matching but it's still a dual mass that minimizes gearbox rattle. I hate gearbox rattle in street cars!

My M3 has transitioned to 100% track use. Currently I'm running a Tilton 7.25" dual disc that weighs 16lbs total (8lb flywheel + 8lb clutch). It's super quick and positive on track. However the light weight provides zero damping for gearbox noises and it's a basket design so the clutch discs rattle around inside when the clutch is disengaged. Below is what the Tilton sounds like. It's obviously an extreme example - but when you switch to a light single mass flywheel you can expect some of this "cement mixer" noise to become more noticeable.



My least favorite was the UUC + E34 M5 clutch. Something about the stack height or diaphragm spring of that setup makes the clutch pedal way too light. I couldn't feel anything the clutch was doing through the pedal, even with the recommended 325i slave cylinder swap. It was too easy to either stall out or slip the clutch too much. I got used to driving with it but I also hated it. Gearbox noise was quite loud, though not nearly as loud as the Tilton. As NeilM said, it can be loud enough inside and outside the car that people think something is wrong. If you have a low tolerance for noise I'd stick with a dual mass.

From my perspective it's hard to beat a LUK DMF073 + Sachs clutch for daily driving with occasional track use. It's quiet, revs ok and is extremely easy to drive.

Thanks, sounds like i will be sticking to the LUK DMF and the sachs clutch. I'm daily driving my car over the summer and it'll be seeing a few track days so I don't think, I will be getting a ltw flywheel

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